Fifa under-20 world cup - Lucas and insua in action

International Football/Football World Wide - General Discussion

Postby The Specialist » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:31 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
The Specialist wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:USA grinded out a really ugly win, but advance to the 1/4 finals to play Austria, thank got Besian isnt play he would light us up.

The Americans showed great determination to win that match, mate.  Ugly it may have been but they came from behind and got the result when the chips were down.  Fair play to them.  As for Uruguay, I haven't seen a team dive and carry on as shamelessly as they did in a long time.  They were a disgrace and got exactly what they deserved.  They were poor losers too, with a few of their lads going after a couple of American players at the full time whistle. :no

What was a disgrace was the referee..

Fair play that the US came from behind and played better towards the end of the game than Uruguay, but the refereeing during the game was terrible. You can't blame the Uruguayans for being upset with what occured. How any US players didn't get sent off, and how the handball/foul against the keeper that occured during the plays that lead to goals was overlooked is upsetting. Any team would get :censored: off if they had un-fair treatment throughout a game. It's easy to critize people when you don't take notice or acknowledge what occured in the build-up to everything...

There's nothing I dislike more than when people call one party out for one thing, and ignore the other party's actions. Anyone who wasn't biased and watched the match would laugh out loud at you talking about the Uruguayans diving, when Szetela flung himself to the ground and grabbed his face like he had been hit with a hammer after a Uruguayan brushed him. Now that's shameful. He's a class player otherwise.  :D

Anyway, it's a shame what happened after the game and I don't encourage violence. But I understand why their players would be upset after that game.

Not sure I know what handball/foul you're talking about, mate?  Which US goal did that occur in the build-up to?

As for the Szetela play-acting, you're right, it was equally disgraceful.  On the other hand, you could argue that he was just giving Uruguay their just desserts after they flopped about the whole game.  In my view Uruguay were the much bigger disgrace throughout the game than were the Americans but, as Carra says, it's a game of opinions. :D

In general, though, there has been some poor refereeing in this competition.  Spain did tremendously well to come from 2-0 down to Brazil to ultimately win 4-2 but would they have gotten back into the match if their first goal had been disallowed for a blatant handball?  It's doubtful.  How the linesman missed that I'll never know as he had a perfect view of it.  But, the goal counted and, coming as it did only a couple of minutes after Brazil's second and right before half-time, it was a real turning point in the match momentum.

I agree in general that the refereeing during this tourament has been poor, yeah. I didn't see the Spain match, but I heard about what happened. I can't comment really on that game, but without watching it...anyone can admit that their comeback would have been less likely if the goal had been disallowed.

The fouls were the type of fouls that sometimes get called and sometimes don't. There was a handball during the play when the US tied the game. It's how the player who puts the cross in that leads to the OG, finds himself with the ball to mak the cross. The other goalkeeper incident isn't much of an incident, to be honest. I probably wouldn't even mention it normally. It's the type of stuff that might called in Spain and we brush off in the Premiership.  It's just that when two goals go in with a (however small) bit of controversy you get ticked off.

Sorry if I come across as being bitter, btw I'm not making excuses for the loss. They lost. It's over. It's just that I don't like a team being talked about in one way, when I feel the other team was probably worse. I'm not saying one team was full of angels or didn't get a  lucky call or two themselves, but yeah. I just think it's ridiculous to ignore the US team's and refs actions and just focus on the "disgraceful" Uruguayans.

Anyway, it was an ugly win. A win is a win. Let's leave it at that.
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Postby The Specialist » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:34 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Bocenegra also with Fulham used to play for Chicago from 2000 to 04.
Bobby Convey with Reading used to play for DC from 2000 to 04 (still only 24 years old)

Also have 2 young guys who went straight to england:
Jonathan Spector (21) for West Ham
Frank Simek (23) for Sheff Wednesday

Kenny Cooper started off at Man U never played was loaned out to oldham and then came back to the US last year, was picking up his form right before Copa America but then someone broke his leg on a viscious tackle.  But he has a great frame (6'3'' and solid as can be and only 22 so I think he will be back in Europe soon)

Eddie Johnson almost went to benfica last year for 2.5m pounds but the league rejected the offer. looks dumb now because although he scored a hatrick 2 games in a row 6 weeks ago, he has really exposed himself in the last 2 international tournamnets as someone who just can't finish to save his life (not a good quality for  a striker)

Based on all of these precedents, then, I would be very surprised not to see some English club take a punt on Altidore.  The same's true of Adu, although his reputation and perhaps his wage demands might be an issue.

The Mancs tried to sign Adu last January, I think. He wasn't interested in making the move to Europe just yet.
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Postby Bad Bob » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:12 pm

The Specialist wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Bocenegra also with Fulham used to play for Chicago from 2000 to 04.
Bobby Convey with Reading used to play for DC from 2000 to 04 (still only 24 years old)

Also have 2 young guys who went straight to england:
Jonathan Spector (21) for West Ham
Frank Simek (23) for Sheff Wednesday

Kenny Cooper started off at Man U never played was loaned out to oldham and then came back to the US last year, was picking up his form right before Copa America but then someone broke his leg on a viscious tackle.  But he has a great frame (6'3'' and solid as can be and only 22 so I think he will be back in Europe soon)

Eddie Johnson almost went to benfica last year for 2.5m pounds but the league rejected the offer. looks dumb now because although he scored a hatrick 2 games in a row 6 weeks ago, he has really exposed himself in the last 2 international tournamnets as someone who just can't finish to save his life (not a good quality for  a striker)

Based on all of these precedents, then, I would be very surprised not to see some English club take a punt on Altidore.  The same's true of Adu, although his reputation and perhaps his wage demands might be an issue.

The Mancs tried to sign Adu last January, I think. He wasn't interested in making the move to Europe just yet.

They actually tried to sign him?  I thought they had him over for a trial and decided to pass.  Very interesting that he's considered to be at that level (or is this just a cynical marketing ploy?).  ???
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Postby JoeTerp » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:15 pm

I think it was more of United didn't think he was ready yet there is a quote from fergie "we will continue to monitor him" or something, might have been a different situation in Jan, not sure if he was still with DC then, but now that he is in a footballing hell in salt lake, he wants out really badly.  I think now Adu has wised up and that for the long term it would be better to take a pay cut now and become a better player over in england or somewhere in europe, and make more money now.  the only reason he is the 4th highest paid MLS player is he was responsible for bringign a LOT of people to games because of his hype.  MLS games unfortunatly are filllled with 11 year old kids and thier dads who are coaches who don't know feck all about football which is sad because they effing coach it and don't know that the ball is not out until all the ball goes over all of the line and that if a player is outside the line it does not matter at all :angry:
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Postby JoeTerp » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:20 pm

I would think szetela would get picked up as well. He played very well in the first two games, only reason we escaped with a point against Korea. AND he is elligable to get a Polish passport becasue I think both of his parents are from there so he would count as an EU player which is less of a risk because he wouldn't be taking away a clubs slot for non EU
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Postby Bad Bob » Fri Jul 13, 2007 6:22 pm

JoeTerp wrote:I think it was more of United didn't think he was ready yet there is a quote from fergie "we will continue to monitor him" or something, might have been a different situation in Jan, not sure if he was still with DC then, but now that he is in a footballing hell in salt lake, he wants out really badly.  I think now Adu has wised up and that for the long term it would be better to take a pay cut now and become a better player over in england or somewhere in europe, and make more money now.  the only reason he is the 4th highest paid MLS player is he was responsible for bringign a LOT of people to games because of his hype.  MLS games unfortunatly are filllled with 11 year old kids and thier dads who are coaches who don't know feck all about football which is sad because they effing coach it and don't know that the ball is not out until all the ball goes over all of the line and that if a player is outside the line it does not matter at all :angry:

:D

I was utterly surrounded by "fans" like this a week ago, mate.  The constant rubbish they were talking all game was doing my head in!
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Postby JoeTerp » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:32 pm

It is just a sign that if this country ever turns its act around and gets all across the country grow up with the sport and get the propper coaching, its going to be scary.  Although America might be the fattest country in the world, at the same time, we probably have the best athletes, and more importantly a very diverse range of athletes.  But sadly, it will be even longer before football will really be worth watching in this country, and there are sooo many factors contributing to that, and one of the big ones is the size of our country and how difficult it is to have a strong away fan group at games even to sports that "matter" here in America, which is a big PART of what creates the great Atmosphere in England.
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Postby Bad Bob » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:45 pm

JoeTerp wrote:It is just a sign that if this country ever turns its act around and gets all across the country grow up with the sport and get the propper coaching, its going to be scary.  Although America might be the fattest country in the world, at the same time, we probably have the best athletes, and more importantly a very diverse range of athletes.  But sadly, it will be even longer before football will really be worth watching in this country, and there are sooo many factors contributing to that, and one of the big ones is the size of our country and how difficult it is to have a strong away fan group at games even to sports that "matter" here in America, which is a big PART of what creates the great Atmosphere in England.

The proper coaching point is the stumbling block, IMO.  North Americans have been playing "soccer" for years--it's one of the most popular participatory sports for youth in both of our countries.  Unfortunately, the quality of the coaching is well below the required standard.  Our British friends might complain about the technical shortcomings in their youth leagues but what happens over here is just laughable.  It doesn't help that there isn't a steady diet of truly top notch football on television each week to raise awareness of the game and provide standards to emulate.  My two cents, anyway.
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Postby JoeTerp » Sat Jul 14, 2007 7:32 pm

Does anyone know how I can stream the U20 games on a mac?
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Postby Bad Bob » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:11 am

Joe, the dream is over! :(   The Americans came out flying and Altidore scored a brilliant header off of an Adu cross.  Things were looking great and the Americans could have added a second before half-time on the counter attack.

But, a wet surface and a still-not-100% Seitz led to an Austrian goal just before half time.  Seitz spilled a shot he should have held an the Austrian attacker pounced to bury a tough shot and equalize.

The second half was predominantly Austria's, with the U.S. looking very sloppy at the back and in midfield.  It went to extra time but chaos in the box from a free kick undid the Americans, as the Austrian's bundled the ball home and came away 2-1 winners.

A sub-par performance from the U.S. at the wrong time.  It seemed like conceding really unhinged them and they never looked comfortable after that.  A shame, really, as they were a great side to watch.
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Postby JoeTerp » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:40 am

Oh well, these youth tournaments are more about showing that your team has promise and getting exposure for your players so that they can train and develop at bigger clubs. And I think the US has done very well in that department.  Next up the U-17s in late August, England actually qualified for this one, I wonder if any of our academy players will be in it.
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Postby Bad Bob » Sun Jul 15, 2007 4:50 am

Spain went out tonight as well so my prediction of a US-Spain semi-final was well and truly rubbished! :p

I suppose it's Argentina or bust for me now.  I'd consider rooting for Mexico if that got past Argentina but I don't want Oasis to think he'd won me over! :D
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Postby JoeTerp » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:32 pm

Well is it better for Insua to start training with the club or getting his experience in Canada with people his own age in real games that matter. I say go Argentina.

I actually looked into the U-17 toruney and Bojan Krkic who has been mentioned in other threads as a big start at Barca was ON FIRE in the UEFA qualifying for Spain. Not sure if I will be able to see any of those games but I hope to get to see him play, also Alex Nimo from the US is supposed to have a lot of promise.
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Postby JoeTerp » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:21 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
JoeTerp wrote:Bocenegra also with Fulham used to play for Chicago from 2000 to 04.
Bobby Convey with Reading used to play for DC from 2000 to 04 (still only 24 years old)

Also have 2 young guys who went straight to england:
Jonathan Spector (21) for West Ham
Frank Simek (23) for Sheff Wednesday

Kenny Cooper started off at Man U never played was loaned out to oldham and then came back to the US last year, was picking up his form right before Copa America but then someone broke his leg on a viscious tackle.  But he has a great frame (6'3'' and solid as can be and only 22 so I think he will be back in Europe soon)

Eddie Johnson almost went to benfica last year for 2.5m pounds but the league rejected the offer. looks dumb now because although he scored a hatrick 2 games in a row 6 weeks ago, he has really exposed himself in the last 2 international tournamnets as someone who just can't finish to save his life (not a good quality for  a striker)

Based on all of these precedents, then, I would be very surprised not to see some English club take a punt on Altidore.  The same's true of Adu, although his reputation and perhaps his wage demands might be an issue.

Now Adu is with Benfica and Jozy has come out and said he wants to leave in January after he turns 18.   here he is on the weekend
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