Liverpool FC Forum

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:08 pm

peewee wrote:there is a consensus that the middle east was more stable with saddam in power, thats why they didnt remove him in 1991. however times obviously changed and a decision was made to remove him, although the decison was based on lies. if bush just came out and said he wanted to remove hom for genocide and to control the oil there then that would have been better.

personally i think the fact that no other middle east country came to iraqs aid speaks volumes

Of course they wouldnt. These same leaders have sat back and watched the Palestinians suffer for decades yet do nothing.

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:11 pm

puroresu wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Read up, plans had been thwarted for terror attacks pre 9/11 in the UK. Explain who the US was occupying for 9/11 to occur?

The US wasnt occupying anyone but her presence was felt in the Middle East.

1. The unconditional support of Israel
2. Propping up dicators all over the Islamic World
3. Military bases all over the Islamic World. US forces in Saudia Arabia.
4. An invasion of Somalia
5. Bombing of a pharmacutical factory in Sudan.

I mean thats just 5 things off the top of my head. Somalia again is another great example of the US causing chaos.

Since 1991 that country has had no real government or stability. Just warlords and clans fighting for power. In June 2006 the Islamic Courts Union took control of the capital Mogadishu and the majority of Somalia. For the first time in a decade there was a clean up of rubbish in the capital, the airport in the capital was re-opened, the major seaport was re-opened, people were free to walk the streets at night without the fear of being robbed or bribed by warlords and trade and business could operate freely without corruption.

For 6 months Somalia finally looked like it was becoming a state. The Islamic courts had popular support and the only ones who oppossed there rule was those who benefited financially before the the IUC cam to power.

However the US couldnt have this. An African nation looking stable and progressing was not allowed as long as it was governed by political Islam. The US government gave authorisation for ethiopa (helped them with airstrikes) to invade somalia and drive the Islamic Union Courts out of power. Now the warlords are back in power and chaos returns.

The US does not realise that interferring in the politics of the Islamic World only brings trouble on themselves.

I still don't understand though how you can see the war in afghanistan as an invasion to occupy. Like i said earlier afghanistan was out of control and activley supporting terrorism. Something had to be done.

by **LFC2007** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:11 pm

'kin hell!!! Overnight and today it's gone full circle from Yugoslavia to Tibet!

Will make a post a bit later on about all the issues, but feck me you lot have been at it!

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:21 pm

Anfield rapper wrote:
puroresu wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Read up, plans had been thwarted for terror attacks pre 9/11 in the UK. Explain who the US was occupying for 9/11 to occur?

The US wasnt occupying anyone but her presence was felt in the Middle East.

1. The unconditional support of Israel
2. Propping up dicators all over the Islamic World
3. Military bases all over the Islamic World. US forces in Saudia Arabia.
4. An invasion of Somalia
5. Bombing of a pharmacutical factory in Sudan.

I mean thats just 5 things off the top of my head. Somalia again is another great example of the US causing chaos.

Since 1991 that country has had no real government or stability. Just warlords and clans fighting for power. In June 2006 the Islamic Courts Union took control of the capital Mogadishu and the majority of Somalia. For the first time in a decade there was a clean up of rubbish in the capital, the airport in the capital was re-opened, the major seaport was re-opened, people were free to walk the streets at night without the fear of being robbed or bribed by warlords and trade and business could operate freely without corruption.

For 6 months Somalia finally looked like it was becoming a state. The Islamic courts had popular support and the only ones who oppossed there rule was those who benefited financially before the the IUC cam to power.

However the US couldnt have this. An African nation looking stable and progressing was not allowed as long as it was governed by political Islam. The US government gave authorisation for ethiopa (helped them with airstrikes) to invade somalia and drive the Islamic Union Courts out of power. Now the warlords are back in power and chaos returns.

The US does not realise that interferring in the politics of the Islamic World only brings trouble on themselves.

I still don't understand though how you can see the war in afghanistan as an invasion to occupy. Like i said earlier afghanistan was out of control and activley supporting terrorism. Something had to be done.

I cant support any invasion of muslim lands by nations such as the US. I just cant do it. The US have much more interest in afganistan than the getting rid of the taliban. I cant support the installing of a puppet regime and the US dictating the future of that country.

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:29 pm

puroresu wrote:
Anfield rapper wrote:
puroresu wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Read up, plans had been thwarted for terror attacks pre 9/11 in the UK. Explain who the US was occupying for 9/11 to occur?

The US wasnt occupying anyone but her presence was felt in the Middle East.

1. The unconditional support of Israel
2. Propping up dicators all over the Islamic World
3. Military bases all over the Islamic World. US forces in Saudia Arabia.
4. An invasion of Somalia
5. Bombing of a pharmacutical factory in Sudan.

I mean thats just 5 things off the top of my head. Somalia again is another great example of the US causing chaos.

Since 1991 that country has had no real government or stability. Just warlords and clans fighting for power. In June 2006 the Islamic Courts Union took control of the capital Mogadishu and the majority of Somalia. For the first time in a decade there was a clean up of rubbish in the capital, the airport in the capital was re-opened, the major seaport was re-opened, people were free to walk the streets at night without the fear of being robbed or bribed by warlords and trade and business could operate freely without corruption.

For 6 months Somalia finally looked like it was becoming a state. The Islamic courts had popular support and the only ones who oppossed there rule was those who benefited financially before the the IUC cam to power.

However the US couldnt have this. An African nation looking stable and progressing was not allowed as long as it was governed by political Islam. The US government gave authorisation for ethiopa (helped them with airstrikes) to invade somalia and drive the Islamic Union Courts out of power. Now the warlords are back in power and chaos returns.

The US does not realise that interferring in the politics of the Islamic World only brings trouble on themselves.

I still don't understand though how you can see the war in afghanistan as an invasion to occupy. Like i said earlier afghanistan was out of control and activley supporting terrorism. Something had to be done.

I cant support any invasion of muslim lands by nations such as the US. I just cant do it. The US have much more interest in afganistan than the getting rid of the taliban. I cant support the installing of a puppet regime and the US dictating the future of that country.

What else would they be getting from afghanistan though? Its not like they have oil reserves or anything else the US would be interested in. The only reason they went in was to remove the Taliban and as i see it that can only be a good thing.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:40 pm

Anfield rapper wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Anfield rapper wrote:
puroresu wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Read up, plans had been thwarted for terror attacks pre 9/11 in the UK. Explain who the US was occupying for 9/11 to occur?

The US wasnt occupying anyone but her presence was felt in the Middle East.

1. The unconditional support of Israel
2. Propping up dicators all over the Islamic World
3. Military bases all over the Islamic World. US forces in Saudia Arabia.
4. An invasion of Somalia
5. Bombing of a pharmacutical factory in Sudan.

I mean thats just 5 things off the top of my head. Somalia again is another great example of the US causing chaos.

Since 1991 that country has had no real government or stability. Just warlords and clans fighting for power. In June 2006 the Islamic Courts Union took control of the capital Mogadishu and the majority of Somalia. For the first time in a decade there was a clean up of rubbish in the capital, the airport in the capital was re-opened, the major seaport was re-opened, people were free to walk the streets at night without the fear of being robbed or bribed by warlords and trade and business could operate freely without corruption.

For 6 months Somalia finally looked like it was becoming a state. The Islamic courts had popular support and the only ones who oppossed there rule was those who benefited financially before the the IUC cam to power.

However the US couldnt have this. An African nation looking stable and progressing was not allowed as long as it was governed by political Islam. The US government gave authorisation for ethiopa (helped them with airstrikes) to invade somalia and drive the Islamic Union Courts out of power. Now the warlords are back in power and chaos returns.

The US does not realise that interferring in the politics of the Islamic World only brings trouble on themselves.

I still don't understand though how you can see the war in afghanistan as an invasion to occupy. Like i said earlier afghanistan was out of control and activley supporting terrorism. Something had to be done.

I cant support any invasion of muslim lands by nations such as the US. I just cant do it. The US have much more interest in afganistan than the getting rid of the taliban. I cant support the installing of a puppet regime and the US dictating the future of that country.

What else would they be getting from afghanistan though? Its not like they have oil reserves or anything else the US would be interested in. The only reason they went in was to remove the Taliban and as i see it that can only be a good thing.

Its the location. Afghanistan is a prime location for the US to secure control of untapped oil and gas reserves in central asia.

Getting rid of the taliban and Al Queada was the primary objective but another thing on washington's mind is how best to make Afghanistan safe for a couple of billion-dollar pipeline investments.

by **woof woof !** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:41 pm

puroresu wrote:The US have much more interest in afganistan than the getting rid of the taliban.

Can you give some examples that are not directly related to the Taliban ?

I will accept that Afghanistan is strategically a vital location from which such models of democracy like Iran and all the "Stan lands " can be monitored and threatend .

by **metalhead** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:44 pm

anfield rapper, if you read my post in page 8 or 9, I explained why the U.S went to war in afghanistan, other than defeating bin ladin. Its about its neighboring countries that have rich natural resources and oil reserves. The U.S planned to build an oil pipeline within countries (i.e tajikistan, turkmenistan, etc...) to exploit oil. They picked afghanistan, because of what you said(terrorist camps, etc...), they have an excuse to invade afghanistan. Also, there is Iran just next to it!

by **Anfield rapper** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:51 pm

metalhead wrote:anfield rapper, if you read my post in page 8 or 9, I explained why the U.S went to war in afghanistan, other than defeating bin ladin. Its about its neighboring countries that have rich natural resources and oil reserves. The U.S planned to build an oil pipeline within countries (i.e tajikistan, turkmenistan, etc...) to exploit oil. They picked afghanistan, because of what you said(terrorist camps, etc...), they have an excuse to invade afghanistan. Also, there is Iran just next to it!

I'm afraid i don't buy that. The terrorist group that were behind 9/11 were in Afghanistan thats why they went there. Not for a strategic location or any resource exploitation.

by **metalhead** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:55 pm

If you just analyse the situation.

Ok they went to war in afghanistan, the U.S with high technology, sattellites and best secret intelligence in the world, have they captured bin ladin yet? or at least wiped out 50% of al-quada or anyother terrorist group? I don't think so.

so what are they still doing?

by **Big Niall** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:03 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
dawson99 wrote:cant believe absoltuely no one else thinks we were right to get rid of saddam. forget the oil and what happened since, at the time he HAD to be stopped, absokutely no one agree?

I agree mate.

Saddam was a modern-day Adolf Hitler, and HAD to be removed.

Iraq is a sh*thole now, but in time it will improve - something that would never have happened under that tyrant b*stard.

thats rubbish.

Hussein was no threat to other countries and definately no threat to UK or USA.

He was horrible but Iraq under him was much better than it is today. He was also secular so kept extreme islam at bay. A huge mistake and the soldiers (and Iraqis) are dying for no good cause.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:30 pm

"They hope to establish a violent political utopia across the Middle East, which they call a "Caliphate" -- where all would be ruled according to their hateful ideology."

"I'm not going to allow this to happen -- and no future American President can allow it either"

President Bush

This is the kind of rubbish which the defender of the 'free world' comes up with.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:34 pm

puroresu wrote:
Anfield rapper wrote:
puroresu wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Read up, plans had been thwarted for terror attacks pre 9/11 in the UK. Explain who the US was occupying for 9/11 to occur?

The US wasnt occupying anyone but her presence was felt in the Middle East.

1. The unconditional support of Israel
2. Propping up dicators all over the Islamic World
3. Military bases all over the Islamic World. US forces in Saudia Arabia.
4. An invasion of Somalia
5. Bombing of a pharmacutical factory in Sudan.

I mean thats just 5 things off the top of my head. Somalia again is another great example of the US causing chaos.

Since 1991 that country has had no real government or stability. Just warlords and clans fighting for power. In June 2006 the Islamic Courts Union took control of the capital Mogadishu and the majority of Somalia. For the first time in a decade there was a clean up of rubbish in the capital, the airport in the capital was re-opened, the major seaport was re-opened, people were free to walk the streets at night without the fear of being robbed or bribed by warlords and trade and business could operate freely without corruption.

For 6 months Somalia finally looked like it was becoming a state. The Islamic courts had popular support and the only ones who oppossed there rule was those who benefited financially before the the IUC cam to power.

However the US couldnt have this. An African nation looking stable and progressing was not allowed as long as it was governed by political Islam. The US government gave authorisation for ethiopa (helped them with airstrikes) to invade somalia and drive the Islamic Union Courts out of power. Now the warlords are back in power and chaos returns.

The US does not realise that interferring in the politics of the Islamic World only brings trouble on themselves.

I still don't understand though how you can see the war in afghanistan as an invasion to occupy. Like i said earlier afghanistan was out of control and activley supporting terrorism. Something had to be done.

I cant support any invasion of muslim lands by nations such as the US. I just cant do it. The US have much more interest in afganistan than the getting rid of the taliban. I cant support the installing of a puppet regime and the US dictating the future of that country.

This is one of the problems, we see it as invading Afganistan the country, you see it as invading muslim lands. We view things quite differently, we dont think of Germany invading a Christian country we think of Germany invading Poland.

When we invaded Iraq it was us invading a tyranical rulers country not a "muslim" country.

Reasons why we invaded have nothing to do with religion (on our part) but everything to do with religion(on your part).

Until both sides try and see the others viewpoint we will never come close to an understanding. You think in terms of "nation of Islam", we just think of nations, not "nation of christians"

We were right to invade Afganistan and Iraq in view.

by **puroresu** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:46 pm

s@int wrote:
puroresu wrote:
Anfield rapper wrote:
puroresu wrote:
redtrader74 wrote:Read up, plans had been thwarted for terror attacks pre 9/11 in the UK. Explain who the US was occupying for 9/11 to occur?

The US wasnt occupying anyone but her presence was felt in the Middle East.

1. The unconditional support of Israel
2. Propping up dicators all over the Islamic World
3. Military bases all over the Islamic World. US forces in Saudia Arabia.
4. An invasion of Somalia
5. Bombing of a pharmacutical factory in Sudan.

I mean thats just 5 things off the top of my head. Somalia again is another great example of the US causing chaos.

Since 1991 that country has had no real government or stability. Just warlords and clans fighting for power. In June 2006 the Islamic Courts Union took control of the capital Mogadishu and the majority of Somalia. For the first time in a decade there was a clean up of rubbish in the capital, the airport in the capital was re-opened, the major seaport was re-opened, people were free to walk the streets at night without the fear of being robbed or bribed by warlords and trade and business could operate freely without corruption.

For 6 months Somalia finally looked like it was becoming a state. The Islamic courts had popular support and the only ones who oppossed there rule was those who benefited financially before the the IUC cam to power.

However the US couldnt have this. An African nation looking stable and progressing was not allowed as long as it was governed by political Islam. The US government gave authorisation for ethiopa (helped them with airstrikes) to invade somalia and drive the Islamic Union Courts out of power. Now the warlords are back in power and chaos returns.

The US does not realise that interferring in the politics of the Islamic World only brings trouble on themselves.

I still don't understand though how you can see the war in afghanistan as an invasion to occupy. Like i said earlier afghanistan was out of control and activley supporting terrorism. Something had to be done.

I cant support any invasion of muslim lands by nations such as the US. I just cant do it. The US have much more interest in afganistan than the getting rid of the taliban. I cant support the installing of a puppet regime and the US dictating the future of that country.

This is one of the problems, we see it as invading Afganistan the country, you see it as invading muslim lands. We view things quite differently, we dont think of Germany invading a Christian country we think of Germany invading Poland.

When we invaded Iraq it was us invading a tyranical rulers country not a "muslim" country.

Reasons why we invaded have nothing to do with religion (on our part) but everything to do with religion(on your part).

Until both sides try and see the others viewpoint we will never come close to an understanding. You think in terms of "nation of Islam", we just think of nations, not "nation of christians"

We were right to invade Afganistan and Iraq in view.

Bush initially called his wars after 9/11 a "Crusade".

by **Big Niall** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:47 pm

it was clearly wrong from a military, social, moral view. an abosulte disgrace actually and Blair should be ashamed that Bush actually outsmarted him.

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