Liverpool FC Forum

by **EddieC** » Sun May 20, 2007 3:39 pm

To me Momo's a strange breed of player, in that against top clubs he'd be one of the first names on my teamsheet, but against lesser teams I wouldn't even have him in the squad. His talent, as plenty have mentioned, is breaking up play. This is ideal when playing against top sides, giving them no time on the ball, and can make some of the best passing teams resort to route one football. However he's no use to the team when we're playing opposition who are going to put 10 men behind the ball, as he offers nothing to help break them down.

He is a brilliant option to have though, and personally I think anyone talking of selling him is mad. Ok he's can't really pass or dribble, but that's not what he's there to do. When playing the likes of Barcelona or Arsenal, teams that like to play the ball about, there's no-one I'd rather have in the middle. He's an option that we need against certain opposition, and there's no-one in the squad that could do that job better.

by **Penguins** » Sun May 20, 2007 4:38 pm

EddieC wrote:To me Momo's a strange breed of player, in that against top clubs he'd be one of the first names on my teamsheet, but against lesser teams I wouldn't even have him in the squad. His talent, as plenty have mentioned, is breaking up play. This is ideal when playing against top sides, giving them no time on the ball, and can make some of the best passing teams resort to route one football. However he's no use to the team when we're playing opposition who are going to put 10 men behind the ball, as he offers nothing to help break them down.

He is a brilliant option to have though, and personally I think anyone talking of selling him is mad. Ok he's can't really pass or dribble, but that's not what he's there to do. When playing the likes of Barcelona or Arsenal, teams that like to play the ball about, there's no-one I'd rather have in the middle. He's an option that we need against certain opposition, and there's no-one in the squad that could do that job better.

I can't disagree about the part vs barca and Arsenal but my main sticking point is that those games are few and far apart.
Starting 5-10 games vs certain teams I don't think will make momo a happy camper.

And about lucas and unkown quantity... plz gimme a break.
Paletta was know as a decent defender for banfield and cost around 1 million. We all knew that he was not gonna dislodge hyppia and carra in amillion year. He hadn't even been in consideration for any player of the year awards.

Lucas cost 6-9 million! Player of the year in Brazil!
How can anyone belittle that?
Already got caps for the Brazil national team.
Just a totally different scenario altogether.
He might be a different type of CM than Momo but there is still only 2 spots up for grabs.
And Gerrard is no winger!

But sure, if Momo will be happy with those 5-10 starts he is a good option to have.

And if a bid of 10+ million come and would help get us 2 top class wingers I'd consider it.

by **EddieC** » Sun May 20, 2007 4:44 pm

Penguins wrote:
EddieC wrote:To me Momo's a strange breed of player, in that against top clubs he'd be one of the first names on my teamsheet, but against lesser teams I wouldn't even have him in the squad. His talent, as plenty have mentioned, is breaking up play. This is ideal when playing against top sides, giving them no time on the ball, and can make some of the best passing teams resort to route one football. However he's no use to the team when we're playing opposition who are going to put 10 men behind the ball, as he offers nothing to help break them down.

He is a brilliant option to have though, and personally I think anyone talking of selling him is mad. Ok he's can't really pass or dribble, but that's not what he's there to do. When playing the likes of Barcelona or Arsenal, teams that like to play the ball about, there's no-one I'd rather have in the middle. He's an option that we need against certain opposition, and there's no-one in the squad that could do that job better.

I can't disagree about the part vs barca and Arsenal but my main sticking point is that those games are few and far apart.
Starting 5-10 games vs certain teams I don't think will make momo a happy camper.

And about lucas and unkown quantity... plz gimme a break.
Paletta was know as a decent defender for banfield and cost around 1 million. We all knew that he was not gonna dislodge hyppia and carra in amillion year. He hadn't even been in consideration for any player of the year awards.

Lucas cost 6-9 million! Player of the year in Brazil!
How can anyone belittle that?
Already got caps for the Brazil national team.
Jus totally different scenario altogether.
He might be a different type of CM than Momo but there is still only 2 spots up for grabs.
And Gerrard is no winger!

But sure, if Momo will be happy with those 5-10 starts he is a good option to have.

Agree that the number of games he's needed for probably won't be enough to keep him happy, but I really feel he is needed for those games and at the end of the day the needs of the club come ahead of the player. If he wants to get more starts he'll have to improve on the other aspects of his game, and I believe he has the right attitude to work harder when he's not playing as much rather than letting his head drop.

by **Penguins** » Sun May 20, 2007 4:52 pm

Well, that's where I do disagree, at least so far.
He hasn't really improved his attacking game or passing much at all so far and about improving and not leatting his head drop when not playing?
Only need to see what happened this season when Masch came in and put him down in the pecking order.
Even though not the only reason for it, but he has been awful when given the chance after that and his head has dropped a few times.
Like not understading why he was subbed after 50 min vs Middlesbrough when everyone else knew why.

by **RedBlood** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:19 pm

sell momo

some people just like talking sh.it

by **LFC2007** » Sun May 20, 2007 5:22 pm

Penguins wrote:Lucas cost 6-9 million! Player of the year in Brazil!
How can anyone belittle that?
Already got caps for the Brazil national team.
Just a totally different scenario altogether.
He might be a different type of CM than Momo but there is still only 2 spots up for grabs.
And Gerrard is no winger!

But sure, if Momo will be happy with those 5-10 starts he is a good option to have.

And if a bid of 10+ million come and would help get us 2 top class wingers I'd consider it.

Keleberson cost £6.5m, a world champion with Brazil in 2002, highly rated and highly sought after. Could he cut it in England?

2002:moves to Man Utd, doesn't settle, plays 28 times in two seasons.

Kleberson the unknown quantity, didn't succeed, cost him his place in Brazil national squad.

A 'totally different scenario' here?

Lucas an unknown quantity in England?

I think so!

by **Penguins** » Sun May 20, 2007 6:42 pm

Ok, so Lucas might be a unknown quantity in England, but so what?
Does that mean every single player outside of England to be unsuited for the PL?
And then u bring up Kleberson, an exception who might have a world cup medal like Traore has a CL medal. He was still a weak link in that brazilian team.
And as a side note, manure spend around 18 million at least on new players who is for the 1st team, we spend around 7 million.
When was Kleberson voted best player in brazil? Which alternate universe was that in?
I'm convinced lucas will be a hit in acouple of years since he seems to have a great mentality and singlehandely has taken Gremio as far as they've gone.
If you don't think so, fine, but I do.

And 4th or 5th choice, still only 2 places up for grabs.
And seeing Momo being 2nd and 3rd choice for the 2 years he has been here, all of a sudden he's 4th or maybe 5th.
Satisfied with that role?
U can bet not, and so far he has taken the added competion from Masch the wrong way, no question.

by **LFC2007** » Sun May 20, 2007 8:26 pm

Penguins wrote:Ok, so Lucas might be a unknown quantity in England, but so what?
Does that mean every single player outside of England to be unsuited for the PL?
And then u bring up Kleberson, an exception who might have a world cup medal like Traore has a CL medal. He was still a weak link in that brazilian team.
And as a side note, manure spend around 18 million at least on new players who is for the 1st team, we spend around 7 million.
When was Kleberson voted best player in brazil? Which alternate universe was that in?
I'm convinced lucas will be a hit in acouple of years since he seems to have a great mentality and singlehandely has taken Gremio as far as they've gone.
If you don't think so, fine, but I do.

And 4th or 5th choice, still only 2 places up for grabs.
And seeing Momo being 2nd and 3rd choice for the 2 years he has been here, all of a sudden he's 4th or maybe 5th.
Satisfied with that role?
U can bet not, and so far he has taken the added competion from Masch the wrong way, no question.

Now you've changed your tune :

'And about lucas and unkown quantity... plz gimme a break'

Now it's:

'Ok, so Lucas might be a unknown quantity in England'

:laugh:

Of course, every player who doesn't play in the premier league is an unknown quantity before they've played here (look at Schevchenko and Ballack), however, those who play in the South American Leagues are even more of an unknown quantity as the pace and style of the game is entirely different, the leagues there don't have as much quality or organisation as they do in Europe either.

Did I say every player outside of England is unsuited to the EPL?

No.

Kleberson is an example of a player who was rated just as highly if not more so than this guy Lucas, a player who became the first name on the team sheet in the 2002 world cup, a player who was highly sought after.

'A weak link in the Brazil team'

:laugh:

The same weak link who played five times during the world cup, initially not starting but then impressing Scolari so much that he started in the World Cup final?

The same weak link who played better than any of his fellow midfielders in the final.

The same weak link who Scolari considered the 'driving force of the team'.

The same weak link who made 4 more world cup appearances than Kaka!

Would Traore ever come remotely close to this?

No.

When you have the choice of an entires nation worth of Brazilian talent, you don't make it as a world cup starter if you're not good enough. In the CL we had no option but to play Traore, our injury situation was dire, we didn't have the entire plethora of defenders from France to pick from.

That is the difference why Traore was able to be part of the CL winning side, that and a bloody good manager.

Kleberson had the talent, he just couldn't adapt it to England, that happens sometimes.

If you gave me a choice between having a world cup winners medal or being voted the best player in Brazil, only in the domestic league, without the cream of the crop of Europe. Then I'd definitely take the world cup medal.

You're convinced Lucas will be a hit based on what? Based on a vote?

Based on superlatives?

Even when the Brazilian league is an entirely different kettle of fish to England?

And why only 2 places up for grabs?

Are you Rafa in disguise, is he telling you that we're not allowed Sissoko and Lucas?

:laugh:

And you've spoken to Sissoko about the arrival of Mascherano, so you know that he's 'taken it the wrong way', you've been in training with him and seen this?

Do you not think that the performances of Mascherano could perhaps, maybe just be the reason why Sissoko hasn't been playing as much? The same reason why Alonso was dropped?

Has Alonso also 'taken it the wrong way'?

:laugh:

by **Penguins** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:26 pm

plz, gimme a break.

Brazil has not had a great normal central mid for years which is why Kleberson played for Brazil.

They had a attacking left mid as central midfielder last world cup ffs!
(Ze Roberto)
Kleberson, Gilberto Silva are just average players being passengers on a great offensive brazilian national team.

And plz, Kleberson had the talent, just not suited for England?
haha.
Where is he now?
He left England, so why isn't he back in the national team?
He has talent u said?
Overrated, overhyped passenger, that's what he was/is!

Just by hearing journalists mentioning Lucas in the same context as Dunga, Socrates etc tells me how they are craving for a great brazilian mid cause after Dunga there has been NOONE.
And NO, Kaka, Ronaldinho is not a regular central midfield.

And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity in England is cause every player not played in England is an unknown quantity. Obvious!

But he is not an unknown quantity like Paletta and some kind of unkown gamble who might come of or not.
Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around.
Plz check which players that have won the brazilian league player of the year in the past.
Practically all is/was quality. Is kleberson there? NO!

Lucas is without a doubt a future mainstay in the brazil national team. Journalists and the players in gremio are saying he is the player that has taken them far in the south american cup and in the league.

juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity

And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever.

And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?

Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came!

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 21, 2007 1:45 am

Penguins wrote:plz, gimme a break.

Brazil has not had a great normal central mid for years which is why Kleberson played for Brazil.

They had a attacking left mid as central midfielder last world cup ffs!
(Ze Roberto)
Kleberson, Gilberto Silva are just average players being passengers on a great offensive brazilian national team.

And plz, Kleberson had the talent, just not suited for England?
haha.
Where is he now?
He left England, so why isn't he back in the national team?
He has talent u said?
Overrated, overhyped passenger, that's what he was/is!

Just by hearing journalists mentioning Lucas in the same context as Dunga, Socrates etc tells me how they are craving for a great brazilian mid cause after Dunga there has been NOONE.
And NO, Kaka, Ronaldinho is not a regular central midfield.

And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity in England is cause every player not played in England is an unknown quantity. Obvious!

But he is not an unknown quantity like Paletta and some kind of unkown gamble who might come of or not.
Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around.
Plz check which players that have won the brazilian league player of the year in the past.
Practically all is/was quality. Is kleberson there? NO!

Lucas is without a doubt a future mainstay in the brazil national team. Journalists and the players in gremio are saying he is the player that has taken them far in the south american cup and in the league.

juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity

And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever.

And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?

Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came!

Kleberson played for Brazil because he fit into their system, he had the talent, even Scolari says he was the 'driving force behind their success in 2002'. Even when he left Man Utd, Ferguson said 'the boy had talent, he just couldn't settle in England'.

That happens sometimes, players need to settle into a country and a system. With Kleberson it didn't happen.

I don't care whether he's as talented as Dunga or not, he played in that world cup side, and played better than any of their midfielders, he was the foundation for their success in that year.

How you don't see the likes of Rivaldo, Emerson, Leonardo, Juninho pernambucano, Gilberto Silva, Edmilson and Kaka as 'good midfielders' is beyond me.

Brazil don't play a 4-4-2, they play a holding midfielder and a diamond ahead of that.

You rarely get passengers in World cups, you obviously didn't watch Brazil in 2002 as you'd have seen the contribution made by both Gilberto and Kleberson.

I think you're in a minority if you consider Gilberto an average player, a player who was subsequently bought by Arsenal after impressing Wenger. Likewise with Emerson and Edmilson, I suppose they're average aswell?! Players who have won Italian and Spanish leagues and European Cups, players who play for two of the most successful teams on earth.

Average?! Get real, these guys do a job, they may not be in the same mould as Kaka and may not be as spectacular as Ronaldinho but they do a job. Even if you watch Madrid you can see the difference a performing Emerson makes to them.

Kleberson isn't in the national team because at the moment he isn't performing, and he hasn't settled at a club. That dosn't mean he isn't talented, because he is. You don't lose talent after a bad spell in England and Turkey!

He is not overrated, he's a guy who did a job, he was not spectacular in 2002, he did his JOB, and in that world cup he was very successful at that JOB.

No great midfielders since Dunga?!

Brazil Midfielders since Dunga:

Rivaldo
Kaka
Emerson
Ze Roberto
Kleberson
Juninho P
Edmilson
Denilson
Belletti
Ronaldinho

They're not all in the same mould as Dunga but most have been EFFECTIVE, great individuals don't make great teams. You seem to have a problem in understanding this.

Even you disagree with the assessment of Scolari himself that Kleberson was 'the driving force' behind the team in 2002!
You don't appreciate the work that the less spectacular of players do.

:laugh:

So you are basing your assessment of Lucas on what Journalists have said, just like the many many journalists who compare every Argentinian player to Maradona do! How often were they right?

Not very often.

He is just as much an unknown quantity as Kleberson is.

Winning the Brazilian league player of the year is an indication that this player can cut the mustard in BRAZIL.

You are wrong when you say 'practically' all the winners of that award were quality.
There are plenty in recent years who have not set Europe alight:

Djalminha,Edmundo, Alex, Edilson, Marcelinho.

I suppose all of these were 'practically all quality' aswell. Kleberson is just as talented as any of these players. It also depends on the level of competition at the time, Kleberson was competing for that award against the likes of Kaka and Ronaldinho. Did Ronaldinho win that award? NO!

Point proven.

'Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around'

Just like Barca did with Rochemback.

Just like Wenger did with Jeffers.

What GREAT players they turned out to be!

'Lucas is without doubt a future mainstay in the Brazilian national team'

Of course he COULD be, but there is certainly a degree of doubt as to whether he WILL be, just like many other young prospects. Kleberson was a mainstay in the Brazil national team before he came to England. I sure hope Lucas is a mainstay in their squad in the future, but you are making a judgement based on superlatives from Brazilian journalists. There is a degree of doubt with any player, especially with one a) so young and b) from South America.

'juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity'

You seem to like contradicting yourself:

'And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity'

:laugh:

Of course scouts get it wrong sometimes, they can say he is a talented player, but they can't say whether he will cut it in Europe or not! I suppose all those scouts were right about Rochemback aswell!

'And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever'

I never said it was a 'backyard league', please quote me on that one Penguins. But it certainly hasn't the same quality, pace or tactical organisation of European leagues. Why do you think most of South America's best exports play in Europe?

'And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?

Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came'

Did you not read what I said about Mascherano and Sissoko?!!:

'Do you not think that the performances of Mascherano could perhaps, maybe just be the reason why Sissoko hasn't been playing as much? The same reason why Alonso was dropped'

Mascherano's played 10 games, are you off your HEEED son, Mascherano has been PLAYING WELL, Sissoko has not, why do you think he is not in the team?? Because of his body Language?!

Do you think he's gonna be happy not playing! No, but he'll get his head down and try and change that. I wouldn't expect his body language to be good, he's just been pipped by Mascherano!

That's what COMPETITION for places is about.

by **Penguins** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:09 am

LFC2007 wrote:
Penguins wrote:plz, gimme a break.

Brazil has not had a great normal central mid for years which is why Kleberson played for Brazil.

They had a attacking left mid as central midfielder last world cup ffs!
(Ze Roberto)
Kleberson, Gilberto Silva are just average players being passengers on a great offensive brazilian national team.

And plz, Kleberson had the talent, just not suited for England?
haha.
Where is he now?
He left England, so why isn't he back in the national team?
He has talent u said?
Overrated, overhyped passenger, that's what he was/is!

Just by hearing journalists mentioning Lucas in the same context as Dunga, Socrates etc tells me how they are craving for a great brazilian mid cause after Dunga there has been NOONE.
And NO, Kaka, Ronaldinho is not a regular central midfield.

And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity in England is cause every player not played in England is an unknown quantity. Obvious!

But he is not an unknown quantity like Paletta and some kind of unkown gamble who might come of or not.
Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around.
Plz check which players that have won the brazilian league player of the year in the past.
Practically all is/was quality. Is kleberson there? NO!

Lucas is without a doubt a future mainstay in the brazil national team. Journalists and the players in gremio are saying he is the player that has taken them far in the south american cup and in the league.

juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity

And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever.

And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?

Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came!

Kleberson played for Brazil because he fit into their system, he had the talent, even Scolari says he was the 'driving force behind their success in 2002'. Even when he left Man Utd, Ferguson said 'the boy had talent, he just couldn't settle in England'.

That happens sometimes, players need to settle into a country and a system. With Kleberson it didn't happen.

I don't care whether he's as talented as Dunga or not, he played in that world cup side, and played better than any of their midfielders, he was the foundation for their success in that year.

How you don't see the likes of Rivaldo, Emerson, Leonardo, Juninho pernambucano, Gilberto Silva, Edmilson and Kaka as 'good midfielders' is beyond me.

Brazil don't play a 4-4-2, they play a holding midfielder and a diamond ahead of that.

You rarely get passengers in World cups, you obviously didn't watch Brazil in 2002 as you'd have seen the contribution made by both Gilberto and Kleberson.

I think you're in a minority if you consider Gilberto an average player, a player who was subsequently bought by Arsenal after impressing Wenger. Likewise with Emerson and Edmilson, I suppose they're average aswell?! Players who have won Italian and Spanish leagues and European Cups, players who play for two of the most successful teams on earth.

Average?! Get real, these guys do a job, they may not be in the same mould as Kaka and may not be as spectacular as Ronaldinho but they do a job. Even if you watch Madrid you can see the difference a performing Emerson makes to them.

Kleberson isn't in the national team because at the moment he isn't performing, and he hasn't settled at a club. That dosn't mean he isn't talented, because he is. You don't lose talent after a bad spell in England and Turkey!

He is not overrated, he's a guy who did a job, he was not spectacular in 2002, he did his JOB, and in that world cup he was very successful at that JOB.

No great midfielders since Dunga?!

Brazil Midfielders since Dunga:

Rivaldo
Kaka
Emerson
Ze Roberto
Kleberson
Juninho P
Edmilson
Denilson
Belletti
Ronaldinho

They're not all in the same mould as Dunga but most have been EFFECTIVE, great individuals don't make great teams. You seem to have a problem in understanding this.

Even you disagree with the assessment of Scolari himself that Kleberson was 'the driving force' behind the team in 2002!
You don't appreciate the work that the less spectacular of players do.

So you are basing your assessment of Lucas on what Journalists have said, just like the many many journalists who compare every Argentinian player to Maradona do! How often were they right?

Not very often.

He is just as much an unknown quantity as Kleberson is.

Winning the Brazilian league player of the year is an indication that this player can cut the mustard in BRAZIL.

You are wrong when you say 'practically' all the winners of that award were quality.
There are plenty in recent years who have not set Europe alight:

Djalminha,Edmundo, Alex, Edilson, Marcelinho.

I suppose all of these were 'practically all quality' aswell. Kleberson is just as talented as any of these players. It also depends on the level of competition at the time, Kleberson was competing for that award against the likes of Kaka and Ronaldinho. Did Ronaldinho win that award? NO!

Point proven.

'Noone shells out that money on a 20 year old if he isn't considered one of the hottest youngest players around'

Just like Barca did with Rochemback.

Just like Wenger did with Jeffers.

What GREAT players they turned out to be!

'Lucas is without doubt a future mainstay in the Brazilian national team'

Of course he COULD be, but there is certainly a degree of doubt as to whether he WILL be, just like many other young prospects. Kleberson was a mainstay in the Brazil national team before he came to England. I sure hope Lucas is a mainstay in their squad in the future, but you are making a judgement based on superlatives from Brazilian journalists. There is a degree of doubt with any player, especially with one a) so young and b) from South America.

'juventus, man utd, inter milan, Ac milan, Fiorentina, Liverpool all these clubs were after him after scouts stationed over there recommended him.
But hey, they're all wrong. just another unknown quantity'

You seem to like contradicting yourself:

'And All I am saying Lucas is an unknown quantity'

Of course scouts get it wrong sometimes, they can say he is a talented player, but they can't say whether he will cut it in Europe or not! I suppose all those scouts were right about Rochemback aswell!

'And the brazilan league isn't some backyard league, the players that have played there over the years have been great, and they have produced some of the most gifted players in the world ever'

I never said it was a 'backyard league', please quote me on that one Penguins. But it certainly hasn't the same quality, pace or tactical organisation of European leagues. Why do you think most of South America's best exports play in Europe?

'And about Sissoko.
So after masch arrival, how do u interpret Momo's body language and overall performance on the pitch?

Atrocious is a good word. He has seemed preasurred and has not done the business.
Alonso has taken it much better.
He has in the latter games been one of the better players when Rafa has rested most of the 1st team. And he responed well in the CL semis by performing really well after he came on in that game.
Momo hasn't had one good game since masch came'

Did you not read what I said about Mascherano and Sissoko?!!:

'Do you not think that the performances of Mascherano could perhaps, maybe just be the reason why Sissoko hasn't been playing as much? The same reason why Alonso was dropped'

Mascherano's played 10 games, are you off your HEEED son, Mascherano has been PLAYING WELL, Sissoko has not, why do you think he is not in the team?? Because of his body Language?!

Do you think he's gonna be happy not playing! No, but he'll get his head down and try and change that. I wouldn't expect his body language to be good, he's just been pipped by Mascherano!

That's what COMPETITION for places is about.

Well, why isn't kleberson in the national team any longer then and hasn't been for a very long time???
Cause he was found out that's why!

Plz, I was talking about normal/defensive central midfielders!!!

Rivaldo, Kaka, Juninho are not even close to that even if great footballers.
Gilberto Silva good? LMAO
What is so good about him???
Gets some goals from the spot kicks but very average passing and tackling. Arsenal isn't winning any big titles with him on the team unless he can be a passenger on a great squad.

Edmilson isn't anything special at all, very average.
Ze Roberto is really a attacking left mid and NO central mid.
Ronaldinho, midfielder??? You're having a laugh surely??
Belletti a winger more than a normal central mid.

Emerson is class though but that's it. Not any of the other come close to a top class normal centre mid.

And a cone could had done what Kleverson did 2002 with
Ronaldinho, kaka, Ronaldo in his Prime, and the rest of the team filled with world class talent.
A Kleberson being "the driving force" behind the 2002 win is one of the biggest jokes ever. I'd mention 10 players before him almost.

it's like bartez the goalkeeper. He won the world cup and played for Monaco and manure. He was extremely average goalie who was lucky that france had Thuram, Desailly, Lizarazu protecting him from being tested.
Once he got to Nantes and got some shots on him he failed miserably. Kleberson won't ever get in the Brazil team after he moved to Fenerbace and if Gilberto Silva left Arsenal he'd be forgotten also.

And about Lucas. U manage to mention those very few who didn't make it in Europe. But what about mentioning all the other 95%??
All great players and not just any names either.
So just cause ronaldinho didn't win it it doesn't count??
Well, if you want to belittle the achivement of player of the year in Brazil then fine. I won't when looking at the history of those who have won it!

And once again just like with the player award U ALWAYs PICK OUT THE EXCEPTIONS!!

So yeah, Rochemback and Jeffers cost as much and were failures. What about the other 99 % of the players in the world that was bought for that amount and succeded?
Liverpool has the last 3 season spent 10 million on one player(Alonso)
The next lvl has been all around 7 million.
Out of the player rafa bought who cost the same or more as Lucas is as follows:

Alonso
Crouch
Kuyt
Garcia
Mori
Pennant
masch(if he signs permanently)
Bellamy

So if I were you now I would vigorusly point out that:

" See, we bought more for the same amount(Mori) and see how it can turn out when u buy for that amount".

Well, look at the rest!
All have and will play a great part for Liverpool in the future.
Great buys and half of them from other countries.
But oh I forgot that brazil is a special case so it doesn't count.

And my biggest point is that sure Mori didn't have the best of spells BUT what all players that has cost so much have all in common.

Rafa has given all of those buys a nice amount of games to prove themselves!!!!
Why must it be different with Lucas?
Cause he is from the most unknown country called Brazil, where adapting to the english game is harder than anywhere else?
Or that just him must be one of those 5% that doesn't make it and be the new Rochemback.

And about Momo. Sure, the performance of masch is a reason why he hasn't played as much anymore. BUT THAT WAS NOT MY POINT. Geez
it's about the games he still have been part of since then!
Cause he has taken part of and started some games.
And in those games instead of showing rafa that it was wrong not to pick him, he has responded badly, played poorly and his body language in some of those matches hasn't been good.

His body language has nothing to do about him not playing, but if your body language is poor it means you're not happy.
if you're not happy, u play even worse and the spiral continues. And even for a start it's understanding that his body language is bad, it can't go on cause it'll affect his happines and play.

He might try and change that and give more effort but so far that has not been visible on the pitch so far when he has played.
And competion is good, but not 5 for 2 places when all are of great quality. (Well, at least I believe Lucas will be a high quality player)
Gerrard is a no no. masch, if continuing like he has is not going to budge. alonso's creativity, vision and passing is always useful. and will try to break into the 1st team which I think he will now and then(if he stays)
And it is my belief there will not be that many games for Momo with "the unknown quantity" also knocking on the door.

And if not now, it's just a matter of time before momo will leave unless he's happy with 5-10 starts a season.

by **Owzat** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:11 pm

RedBlood wrote:some people just like talking sh.it

QED

by **LFC2007** » Mon May 21, 2007 2:29 pm

I'm not even going to bother responding, I'm talking to someone with a far greater knowledge of Brazilian football than Phil Scolari.

Stu seems to have re-surfaced in Penguin format.

:laugh:

by **matrix** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:25 pm

Sissoko follows suit to strengthen core hand at LiverpoolJames Ducker
Mohamed Sissoko is expected to follow Xabi Alonso by committing his long-term future to Liverpool over the weekend, allowing Rafael BenÍtez to concentrate on finding the new players he hopes will turn his team into title contenders next season, a task that is proving more fraught than the manager envisaged.

Alonso ended speculation about his future yesterday, amid serious interest from Barcelona in the Spain midfield player, by agreeing a five-year contract worth about £24 million. Sissoko, the Mali midfield player, and Steve Finnan, the Ireland defender, should follow suit, which would signal the culmination of a productive week of contract negotiations after Steven Gerrard, Jamie Carragher and José Manuel Reina also signed long-term deals that ensure that the nucleus of the team who reached the Champions League final against AC Milan last month will remain together for the foreseeable future.

The speed with which Liverpool have concluded that set of negotiations, however, has not been replicated, in BenÍtez’s eyes at least, on the transfer front.

More than a fortnight has passed since BenÍtez expressed the need for the club to move swiftly to secure the players that he wants, or risk losing them and the club have yet to make a significant signing, although more tangible progress is expected over the next week now that the manager is back from holiday in Portugal.

When Tom Hicks, the American co-owner, called for patience this week, the message appeared to be directed not only at the supporters, but also to BenÍtez, whose desire for a swift resolution to most transfer business has only been heightened by news that Manchester United have committed up to £55 million to sign Owen Hargeaves, Anderson and Nani.

BenÍtez may be pacified by the capture of Florent Malouda, although Liverpool face competition from Arsenal and Chelsea for the Lyons winger, who has resolved to leave the French champions. Developments on that front are expected over this weekend or early next week. Alessandro Mancini, the AS Roma winger, is also thought to be on BenÍtez’s radar.

“I have talked with Lyons officials. There are no offers yet, but it is true there has been direct contact,” Malouda said yesterday. “Liverpool and Chelsea have shown interest. I don’t know how it will be finalised, but in my mind it is certain I will leave.

“At Chelsea, there is Didier Drogba and all the rest, but at Liverpool BenÍtez is a great coach, too, and the team has played in two Champions League finals in three years.”

Any hope BenÍtez had of prising Samuel Eto’o from Barcelona appeared to hinge on a cash deal involving Alonso as a makeweight – José MarÍa Mesalles, the Cameron striker’s agent, denied rumours yesterday that his player had met BenÍtez – but Alonso and BenÍtez expressed delight yesterday that they will continue to work together at Anfield.

“I knew there was interest from other clubs, but it was always my idea to stay here,” Alonso said. “I want to be part of what lies ahead because I know it is going to be exciting. I’ve signed for another five years and there’s no reason why we can’t be successful.

“I am ready to fight for my place. The more top-quality players we have, the better the level of the team will be...

great news if sissoko follows suit, there seems to be a lot going on in the background at the moment...

momo is verry important for us great news if he stays...

looks like malouda will join us early next week, that would really be a great capture...

by **Sabre** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:20 pm

I have read in the Spanish rag AS, that Sissoko is about to sign a 4 year deal extended contract with Liverpool, but I can't read any of this in the forum. DO you know anything?

Liverpool FC Forum

Wud we sell sissoko.....hell no!

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