Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 29, 2006 4:50 am

Rafa has quickly proved himself over 2 short years to be a great manager in every area except one. Buying players. Every manager buys the odd dud.
Wenger with Jeffers.
Ferguson with quite a few recently. :laugh:

Even Shanks and Paisley bought the odd cr*p one.
There is no guarantee when it comes to the transfer market, you pays your money and takes your chances. I would say that Rafas done Ok but not exceptional up to now in the transfer market .

Alonso and Sissoko without doubt the pick of his buys.(some would include Reina and I wouldnt argue)

Morientes,Nunez,Pelligrino and Josamy the worst (but who could have guessed Morientes would fail?)

Garcia, Reina, Crouch and Carson good buys but the jury is still out as to how good ,and for the rest only time will tell(but Gonzales looks good)

But now its crunch time. The sale of Morientes and impending sale of Cisse means Liverpool need strikers and unfortunately our recent record for buying good prolific strikers is awful. Morientes, Cisse,Diouf and Heskey cost Liverpool over £40million, near enough £1million per goal (not a great return) This puts additional pressure on Rafa to get it right, especially as Chelsea, United,Newcastle,and Spurs are all after strikers as well.
If Rafa gets it right it could be the finishing piece in the EPL jigsaw and maybe, just maybe we could be champs. If Rafa gets it badly wrong we may have missed our chance and it could be a long road back.
The players that we are supposedly interested in haven't exactly inspired me but hopefully its just paper talk. I personally dont want Bellamy,Viduka,Johnson or D'viao. I am unsure about Kuyt and Defoe and apart from Owen (who may or may not be one solution) and Tevez (too dear) I have no other suggestion than trust in Rafa.

by **babu** » Mon May 29, 2006 5:57 am

let me summarise:

Rafa has proved to you that he is a great manager, but like all managers he has bought duds.
Now its crunch time and he'd better get the right players in the off season, or it will be a long road back?

What is your point? apart from trust in Rafa?

by **bigmick** » Mon May 29, 2006 7:25 am

Gotta say Saint I think you're being a bit harsh on Rafa's transfer dealings. Morientes is the stand out flop but aklmost everybody, including myself thought it was a good deal at the time. Pelligrino and Nunez were free's and though they were ultimately a mistake, like Zenden last season at least we are only getting stung for the wages (although in the case of the ex-Middlesboro man the wages will be quite large and the contract quite long which we could do with addressing).
Josemi was a mistake but a relatively cheap one which has been more than compensated for by Villareals somewhat baffling acceptance of a swap deal with the much more bankable Kromkamp.
Pretty much everybody else it seems to me has been a solid acquisition, with a personal preference in terms of a pure value buy being for Sissoko, though a good case could be made for any one of Alonso, Crouch, Garcia or Reina.
All really good teams with the exception of Chelsea come together as a result of good coaching allied to shrewd purchases in the transfer market over a sustained period. Conversely, as we discovered in the 90's and Man Utd are finding to their cost now, one or two too many Evra's and Veron's and the whole cycle goes into reverse. Sofar Rafa has done a brilliant job and one more close-season of solid purchases could see us challenge for the title.

by **66-1112520797** » Mon May 29, 2006 8:20 am

I think I see what your getting at S@int, you are right in saying its crunch time for Rafa in the transfer market. We're not far off from a complete squad IMHO, and although the bulk of his squad are here from the Houllier reign he only needs to address a few key positions. Now I have thought this to myself s@int, his summer signings will be detremental to our season next year. More so than last year as we were still in the 'transitional' period so to speak. Next season I think we will have to be serious challenge's for the title, and this will heavily deepend on who's bought in during the summer. Some of you may say why do we have to be serious challenge's next year ? My reply would simply be when would it be time ?
What makes it even more important for Rafa to get these signings right are his funds, or lack of compairing to ManUre and Chelsea. If he buys a "dud", in the summer he wont have 20m in his pocket to go and spend in January on a replacement. Then if you do look at his purchases previously he hasnt always got it right and although he's quick to realise it its still true, whether they've been free or not. But on the other hand if you look at his big money signings he hasnt got it wrong, so lets hope thats the case when he buys in the summer.

by **luvliverpool** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:27 am

I don't blame Rafa 1 bit considering how easy is it to get a Top Class Striker for very little coin these days???

I do honestly beleive that Fowler will be top goalscorer nxt season as I think he will be refreshed and ready to give it his all for LFC again!!!!!!!!!

But we do need to sign a striker.......possibly Defoe but not sure

by **madred** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:24 pm

I think its unfair to say that Rafa's just done ok. After all he bought two of the best young midfielders in Spain (Alonso and Sissoko) and Garcia despite what some might say has been a revalation due to his goals. I saw the signing of Josemi to be someone who kept Finnan on his toes and Pelligrino as a experienced defender who'd rub that off on to some of the players. We'd all wanted Morientes and Rafa cant really be blamed because he failed to do what he should have done. Reina has had a great season and will get better too. He will still be working hard to get it right in key areas and im sure he still has plenty of time to do so.

by **account deleted by request** » Mon May 29, 2006 1:43 pm

What is your point? apart from trust in Rafa?

My point is that we are again in a similar position to that which we were in under HOULLIER at the last world cup. The right buys could see us really challenge for title, the wrong ones (ala Houllier) and it will probably set us back a number of years and might even lead to further unrest and problems,as it did last time.I also think it will be much more difficult to get it right this time for the reasons I stated earlier i.e. money wasted previously, more competition for top strikers.
I think this COULD be a defining moment in the future of Liverpool and Rafa Benitez.

by **Bad Bob** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:42 pm

s@int wrote:
What is your point? apart from trust in Rafa?

My point is that we are again in a similar position to that which we were in under HOULLIER at the last world cup. The right buys could see us really challenge for title, the wrong ones (ala Houllier) and it will probably set us back a number of years and might even lead to further unrest and problems,as it did last time.I also think it will be much more difficult to get it right this time for the reasons I stated earlier i.e. money wasted previously, more competition for top strikers.
I think this COULD be a defining moment in the future of Liverpool and Rafa Benitez.

I've no argument with the notion that this is a critical moment in our progress under Rafa--who could argue with that? We've made great strides but want to keep pushing forward, which requires savvy transfers to address weaknesses in the team, especially up front.

We should be under no illusions, however, about how difficult it will be to gauge how this summer's transfer business has turned out. If Rafa goes out and signs several unknowns, there will be lots of moaning on this board but, if we're lucky, he'll have unearthed the forward version(s) of Sissoko or Alonso. Conversely, if Rafa signs a big name striker (or two!) there is no guarantee that they'll do the business for us...as Nando demonstrates. Dancing in the streets or spitting out your dummy when the new recruits are unveiled are equally foolish reactions.

So, yes, trust in Rafa...he's proved to be incredibly shrewd in his transfer business. But, also be patient with the new arrivals and keep a level head. It'll be this time next season before we'll really be in a position to evaluate how the summer transfers of 2006 panned out.

by **laza** » Mon May 29, 2006 2:56 pm

madred wrote:I think its unfair to say that Rafa's just done ok. After all he bought two of the best young midfielders in Spain (Alonso and Sissoko) and Garcia despite what some might say has been a revalation due to his goals. I saw the signing of Josemi to be someone who kept Finnan on his toes and Pelligrino as a experienced defender who'd rub that off on to some of the players. We'd all wanted Morientes and Rafa cant really be blamed because he failed to do what he should have done. Reina has had a great season and will get better too. He will still be working hard to get it right in key areas and im sure he still has plenty of time to do so.

Agreed

Nunez i dont even consider a Rafa transfer , he was best he could get out of situation that wasnt of his doing.

Josemi certainly gave a wake up call for Finnian , Pello value seemed to be on training ground

The only real standout failure is unfortunately Nando and who could really have seen that one coming

Momo and Alonso are real gems and whatever his perceived and real shortcomings even his critics were have to agre. Without some of Luis's magic over last couple of seasons then old Big Ears and the FA cup probably wouldnt be in our trophy cabinet.

by **48-1119859832** » Mon May 29, 2006 3:01 pm

All managers makes mistakes in the transfer market, it's no secret and nearly half of all transfers don't work out, it's common knowledge. Josemi was just added to bolster up the size of the squad as was the likes of Pelligrino. So they were never permanent solutions, they were just stop gap players until Rafa found what he was looking for.

Also Rafa made good signings, Alonso, Sissoko, Gonzalez (looks top quality), Reina and even Agger looks like a classy player from what I've seen of him. So he's not done bad.

Morientes is probably one of the best techincal players in Europe. His name isn't surronded by silverware because he's a bad player. Rafa took a gamble, like you do with every player you're looking to sign, Morientes had all the attributes to be a sure hit in the EPL, but for some reasons he couldn't. I think you're being a bit too critical of Rafa in all honesty.

But you have a valid point, we must buy carefully this summer. We can't afford to sign someone off the back of a good world cup campaign, but unlike Houllier, I'm sure Rafa has had players in his mind all season long and I'm sure he has been tracking these players for months, after all he tracked Morientes for years before eventually capturing him and year and a half ago.

However the good news is that Rafa wants all his transfers completed before the World Cup, so I don't think he'll do a Ged Hou and sign players who have had a good World Cup Campaign.

by **Rafalution** » Mon May 29, 2006 3:01 pm

I have to agree with the notion that this is a critical time for signings. I honestly beleive we are only 2 signings away from having a team capable of beating Chelsea and more importantly winning the premiership.

I think the most crucial signing will be that of the right winger. If we get this right we will have an awesome team regardless of what striker we bring in. I think the time is right to break the bank for the best right winger in the game and get a half decent forward because if we make enough chances, even Cisse will score loads of goals. We are one player away from having easily the most awesome midfield in europe. Add to that our decent defence and we will be exceptionally hard to beat next season.

To highlight this I give you the following example. Imagine these two midfield combinations.

Pennant Gerrard Alonso Gonzalez

Or

Joaquin Gerrard Alonso Gonzalez

No disrespect to Pennant, but if we were able to break the bank for Joaquin we would have 2 wide players with pace to spare who have bag loads of skill to boot. That second midfield is quite frankly awesome and easily beats the Chelsea combination of Duff and Robben in the wide areas imo.
That midfield combines skill, pace, aggression, finesse and unrivalled passing ability.

I think any forward in the premiership would love that midfield supplying them with ammunition !

by **48-1119859832** » Mon May 29, 2006 3:04 pm

Everyone goes on about Joaquin, whilst he is a good player, he is also very consistent and do you really want to pay £15million - £30million for a player that could have one or two great games in every five. From what I've seen of him, he's somewhat lazy at times and disappears in and out of matches, sometimes you don't even notice he's there.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:27 am

s@int wrote:Morientes, Cisse,Diouf and Heskey cost Liverpool over £40million, near enough £1million per goal (not a great return)

All but 1 of these players were signed by Houllier.

No one on Earth could have guessed Mori would fail here.

So what you REALLY mean is you want to talk sh*t.

Well done - mission accomplished. :;):

by **account deleted by request** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:54 am

Quote (s@int @ May 29 2006,04:50)
Morientes, Cisse,Diouf and Heskey cost Liverpool over £40million, near enough £1million per goal (not a great return)

All but 1 of these players were signed by Houllier

All of these players were bought by Liverpool fc using Liverpool fc money hence the relevance to how much money Benitez will have to spend on new players.

The only one talking cr*p is you if you think there are no consequences to bad buys no matter who was responsible.

by **Effes** » Tue May 30, 2006 2:08 am

Lando_Griffin wrote:
s@int wrote:Morientes, Cisse,Diouf and Heskey cost Liverpool over £40million, near enough £1million per goal (not a great return)

All but 1 of these players were signed by Houllier.

No one on Earth could have guessed Mori would fail here.

So what you REALLY mean is you want to talk sh*t.

Well done - mission accomplished.

Harsh.

I think he re-iterated his point after his initial post.

I agree it is similar to the Houllier situation where we followed the 2001 Treble with 2nd in the League.
EVERYONE was optimistic, but naff signings meant we could not build on our new-found success.

The thread is not a load of sh*te Lando.

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