Cisse appearence clause?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Scottbot » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:17 pm

puroresu wrote:At least when Cisse plays the midfield actually have an option to play killer passes through sides.  Plenty of times I have seen balls played through which Crouch or Nando are favourite to win yet their lackof pace means the defence can recover. 

As for the chances.  Crouch and Nando have missed far more sitters than Cisse.  Crouch misses them all the damn time and sometimes watching him control a ball is laughable.  His legs are so damn long its like he dont know how to control them. lol!!!

On Sunday how many times did Crouch pick up the ball then travel 10 yards backwards and then pass the ball backwards again.  This is not the way to break down sides.

Most defences will play a much higher line with the likes of Nando and Crouch on the pitch safe in the knowledge that their defenders can deal with the lack of pace in both players. Throw on Cisse and the defence will play deeper forcing Cisse to play with his back to goal for much of the time. Unfortunatley this is something he is pretty much unable to do.

As for Crouchy's touch. have you watched any football this year? It's far superior to Cisse.

For me Cisse is far from the answer but must admit i have felt a little sorry for him having to listen/watch Rafa's unstinting loyalty to Morientes. As for a clause in his contract, it's sounds like pub talk to me but then many transfer fees are based on appearances, increments and installments in modern football so there could be some truth in it.

I do wish we had kept hold of Pongo and let Cisse go on loan though. I was crying out for Pongo to come on against Benfica last week as he would have given us that little bit of trickery and unpredictability that we were missing.
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Postby Red @ Heart » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:24 pm

Scottbot wrote:
puroresu wrote:At least when Cisse plays the midfield actually have an option to play killer passes through sides.  Plenty of times I have seen balls played through which Crouch or Nando are favourite to win yet their lackof pace means the defence can recover. 

As for the chances.  Crouch and Nando have missed far more sitters than Cisse.  Crouch misses them all the damn time and sometimes watching him control a ball is laughable.  His legs are so damn long its like he dont know how to control them. lol!!!

On Sunday how many times did Crouch pick up the ball then travel 10 yards backwards and then pass the ball backwards again.  This is not the way to break down sides.

Most defences will play a much higher line with the likes of Nando and Crouch on the pitch safe in the knowledge that their defenders can deal with the lack of pace in both players. Throw on Cisse and the defence will play deeper forcing Cisse to play with his back to goal for much of the time. Unfortunatley this is something he is pretty much unable to do.

As for Crouchy's touch. have you watched any football this year? It's far superior to Cisse.

For me Cisse is far from the answer but must admit i have felt a little sorry for him having to listen/watch Rafa's unstinting loyalty to Morientes. As for a clause in his contract, it's sounds like pub talk to me but then many transfer fees are based on appearances, increments and installments in modern football so there could be some truth in it.

I do wish we had kept hold of Pongo and let Cisse go on loan though. I was crying out for Pongo to come on against Benfica last week as he would have given us that little bit of trickery and unpredictability that we were missing.

Have to agree with you on all points there mate except one. the fact you said his contract is or maybe pub talk, i think in what Ciggy metioned maybe very plausable and understands if its true why rafa is reluctant to play Cisse
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Postby Effes » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:26 pm

I'm sure if Cisse decided to cut inside sometimes when wide right he might get more joy. At the moment he'll run to the byline and get a corner - most of the time.
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Postby Scottbot » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:52 pm

Effes wrote:I'm sure if Cisse decided to cut inside sometimes when wide right he might get more joy. At the moment he'll run to the byline and get a corner - most of the time.

Must admit he does win a lot of corners Effes. A bit like Diouff used to do.

If we were any good at taking corners i guess Cisse would be our key man :D

Am i the only one that thinks Stevie is a lousy corner taker? His free-kicks are decent but he often fails to beat the first man from corners. Some of our better moments have come from the short corners we like to use. I'd love to see Kewell take a few from the right hand side so we'd get the occasional inswinger. I'd even like to see Finnan take a couple.
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Postby stmichael » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:57 pm

Scottbot wrote:Am i the only one that thinks Stevie is a lousy corner taker? His free-kicks are decent but he often fails to beat the first man from corners. Some of our better moments have come from the short corners we like to use. I'd love to see Kewell take a few from the right hand side so we'd get the occasional inswinger. I'd even like to see Finnan take a couple.

funnily enough, i was watching the "champions of europe" dvd last night and noticed that finnan took quite a few corners last season. the corner from which hyypia scored against juventus amongst others. also, if you look back further to the treble season, gerrard scored about three or four headed goals from corners. in many ways he's very underated in the air and should be used more as an attacking weapon, even if this means hanging around on the edge of the box for half clearances.
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Postby Scottbot » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:42 pm

stmichael wrote:funnily enough, i was watching the "champions of europe" dvd last night and noticed that finnan took quite a few corners last season. the corner from which hyypia scored against juventus amongst others. also, if you look back further to the treble season, gerrard scored about three or four headed goals from corners. in many ways he's very underated in the air and should be used more as an attacking weapon, even if this means hanging around on the edge of the box for half clearances.

Agree with that Mick. If Stevie could deliver a corner the way Beckham or Lampard do on a regular (or even ocassional) basis then let him do the job but if i would love to see him attacking the ball in the penalty box or sitting on the edge of the D waiting for any bits and pieces.

I didn't realise Finnan took many corners last season but he puts in a decent delivery and i'd like to see him take a few more.
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Postby GerrardisKing » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:52 pm

This is the first I`ve heard of an appearance clause,not to sure what to make of it.
One things for certain though he does get treated a little harsh,I mean I know he hasn`t been amazing but he is still a young guy in a different country who frequently gets played out of position,we can`t really expect him to be a top striker when he`s playing down the right.That being said he doesn`t help himself with his attitude sometimes not gonna impress the fans like that.Obviously I share the same concerns as most of you I just think were being a little harsh on the lad,lets just support him whilst he`s here and hope we see some of his undoubted talent.
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Postby Gareth G » Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:45 am

I think what Djibril need's is the fan's to get behind him, maybe sing his name during the match to spare him on, I'll bet it will influence his game and be beneficial.
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Postby puroresu » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:05 am

Saw this on another forum last night:

"hi guys just been watching the french sport channel.....
they've said that cissé was approach by 2 premiership clubs last january and rafa decided not to let him go and also they said that benitez and morientes dislike him for some reasons

the 2 premiership teams who were actually interested in buying cisse were spurs and newcastle and benitez was aware of the strong interest of both clubs but manage to convince cisse to stay and also the french tv states that benitez rely to much on tactics that sometimes confuses and frustrates his players"
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Postby 101-1133031608 » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:37 am

Djibril Cisse Is Just Like Ronseal – He Does What It Says On The Tin

So what do I mean by this:

When the first inklings of our interest in Cisse was revealed, a good 18 months before the deal was completed, I began to watch a lot of French football to see what he was like and the progress he was making.
Now the first thing that was apparent was that he scored regularly, but it was also clear to me that he did miss a number of chances, but the thing was, he was getting into positions to get these chances anyway, which I found to be a good sign, and hoped that this would cease as he grew as a player, but the next season (his last in France) was much the same, many chances, many scored, but just as many (if not more!) missed.

Now obviously not everyone here would have been watching Cisse on a regular basis, but we all would have seen compilations of his goals.
Now as someone said earlier, it was clear that most goals were individual efforts, without much build up play.
Which brings me onto Ronseal*
We knew Cisse was a goalscorer, that he had killer pace and acceleration and was quite physically strong with a vicious shot. That is what it had on the tin, so to speak, and he is doing as described on the tin. He uses his pace and regularly fires off those vicious shots (often wild shots as we all know!). So do we REALLY have any cause for complaint?
He is doing what it says on the tin is he not? Well to the extent he can, considering the lack of regular starts of the past few months.


So maybe, the problem stems from us, not reading the instructions on the tin properly.
What I mean by this is, the instructions on the tin may say something along the lines of:
‘For best results, focus the team around Djibril, hit him everytime you can with through balls in between defenders and let his pace take care of the rest’.

Now when he was initially bought by GH, these instructions on the tin would have been followed to a tee. That was the exact way we were playing at the time, regularly hitting long balls for Michael Owen to feed off. And although just a guess, if we had continued in the same way (obviously under GH!) then, he may well have actually done what it said on the tin.

However, the problem is we are not using the given instructions and are trying to get best results, under a different formula. This is not a dig at Rafa in the slightest,because he has his way and will do things his way. That is not a problem, its just plainly obvious now (and I have tried to defend him so many times in the past, so its hard to say now!) that Cisse cannot change his attributes, or really change his style of play to fit into Rafa’s plan. He is only totally lethal, when used as the instructions on the tin stipulate.
My point is, I don’t think we should be as harsh on Djib, as many have been. He has his skills and attributes that make him a good player in his own right, its just that those skills and attributes are not being used and harnessed in the right way, to get the best results.
The tin told us what we would be getting, we knew he didn’t have ‘skill’ like a Garcia for example, we knew he didn’t have the heading ability of a Crespo, we knew he wasn’t a fox in the box like Fowler.
The tin said we were getting, pace, power and goals and who can argue that we haven’t got that?

As for the transfer price, he didn’t set the price, also lets take into account how much GH was willing to pay for Diouf, so £14m for a player wanted ACROSS EUROPE (c’mon Juve and Barca don’t come calling if you have nothing to offer) at the time wasn’t too bad a business, its just that we didnt read the instructions on how to use him.

It was sadly just bad timing, what with Rafa coming in and such. But I am sure if (more likely WHEN) we sell Cisse in the summer, the team buying him, will once again, just like us, know what they are getting, because it says so on the tin, but I think if they actually read the instructions and take heed, then Cisse will undoubtedly flourish.
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Postby el_stinger » Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:05 am

emitynalooprevil wrote: Djibril Cisse Is Just Like Ronseal – He Does What It Says On The Tin

So what do I mean by this:

When the first inklings of our interest in Cisse was revealed, a good 18 months before the deal was completed, I began to watch a lot of French football to see what he was like and the progress he was making.
Now the first thing that was apparent was that he scored regularly, but it was also clear to me that he did miss a number of chances, but the thing was, he was getting into positions to get these chances anyway, which I found to be a good sign, and hoped that this would cease as he grew as a player, but the next season (his last in France) was much the same, many chances, many scored, but just as many (if not more!) missed.

Now obviously not everyone here would have been watching Cisse on a regular basis, but we all would have seen compilations of his goals.
Now as someone said earlier, it was clear that most goals were individual efforts, without much build up play.
Which brings me onto Ronseal*
We knew Cisse was a goalscorer, that he had killer pace and acceleration and was quite physically strong with a vicious shot. That is what it had on the tin, so to speak, and he is doing as described on the tin. He uses his pace and regularly fires off those vicious shots (often wild shots as we all know!). So do we REALLY have any cause for complaint?
He is doing what it says on the tin is he not? Well to the extent he can, considering the lack of regular starts of the past few months.


So maybe, the problem stems from us, not reading the instructions on the tin properly.
What I mean by this is, the instructions on the tin may say something along the lines of:
‘For best results, focus the team around Djibril, hit him everytime you can with through balls in between defenders and let his pace take care of the rest’.

Now when he was initially bought by GH, these instructions on the tin would have been followed to a tee. That was the exact way we were playing at the time, regularly hitting long balls for Michael Owen to feed off. And although just a guess, if we had continued in the same way (obviously under GH!) then, he may well have actually done what it said on the tin.

However, the problem is we are not using the given instructions and are trying to get best results, under a different formula. This is not a dig at Rafa in the slightest,because he has his way and will do things his way. That is not a problem, its just plainly obvious now (and I have tried to defend him so many times in the past, so its hard to say now!) that Cisse cannot change his attributes, or really change his style of play to fit into Rafa’s plan. He is only totally lethal, when used as the instructions on the tin stipulate.
My point is, I don’t think we should be as harsh on Djib, as many have been. He has his skills and attributes that make him a good player in his own right, its just that those skills and attributes are not being used and harnessed in the right way, to get the best results.
The tin told us what we would be getting, we knew he didn’t have ‘skill’ like a Garcia for example, we knew he didn’t have the heading ability of a Crespo, we knew he wasn’t a fox in the box like Fowler.
The tin said we were getting, pace, power and goals and who can argue that we haven’t got that?

As for the transfer price, he didn’t set the price, also lets take into account how much GH was willing to pay for Diouf, so £14m for a player wanted ACROSS EUROPE (c’mon Juve and Barca don’t come calling if you have nothing to offer) at the time wasn’t too bad a business, its just that we didnt read the instructions on how to use him.

It was sadly just bad timing, what with Rafa coming in and such. But I am sure if (more likely WHEN) we sell Cisse in the summer, the team buying him, will once again, just like us, know what they are getting, because it says so on the tin, but I think if they actually read the instructions and take heed, then Cisse will undoubtedly flourish.

Very sensible post, and one that puts it all into perspective.
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Postby Ciggy » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:15 am

emitynalooprevil wrote: Djibril Cisse Is Just Like Ronseal – He Does What It Says On The Tin

So what do I mean by this:

When the first inklings of our interest in Cisse was revealed, a good 18 months before the deal was completed, I began to watch a lot of French football to see what he was like and the progress he was making.
Now the first thing that was apparent was that he scored regularly, but it was also clear to me that he did miss a number of chances, but the thing was, he was getting into positions to get these chances anyway, which I found to be a good sign, and hoped that this would cease as he grew as a player, but the next season (his last in France) was much the same, many chances, many scored, but just as many (if not more!) missed.

Now obviously not everyone here would have been watching Cisse on a regular basis, but we all would have seen compilations of his goals.
Now as someone said earlier, it was clear that most goals were individual efforts, without much build up play.
Which brings me onto Ronseal*
We knew Cisse was a goalscorer, that he had killer pace and acceleration and was quite physically strong with a vicious shot. That is what it had on the tin, so to speak, and he is doing as described on the tin. He uses his pace and regularly fires off those vicious shots (often wild shots as we all know!). So do we REALLY have any cause for complaint?
He is doing what it says on the tin is he not? Well to the extent he can, considering the lack of regular starts of the past few months.


So maybe, the problem stems from us, not reading the instructions on the tin properly.
What I mean by this is, the instructions on the tin may say something along the lines of:
‘For best results, focus the team around Djibril, hit him everytime you can with through balls in between defenders and let his pace take care of the rest’.

Now when he was initially bought by GH, these instructions on the tin would have been followed to a tee. That was the exact way we were playing at the time, regularly hitting long balls for Michael Owen to feed off. And although just a guess, if we had continued in the same way (obviously under GH!) then, he may well have actually done what it said on the tin.

However, the problem is we are not using the given instructions and are trying to get best results, under a different formula. This is not a dig at Rafa in the slightest,because he has his way and will do things his way. That is not a problem, its just plainly obvious now (and I have tried to defend him so many times in the past, so its hard to say now!) that Cisse cannot change his attributes, or really change his style of play to fit into Rafa’s plan. He is only totally lethal, when used as the instructions on the tin stipulate.
My point is, I don’t think we should be as harsh on Djib, as many have been. He has his skills and attributes that make him a good player in his own right, its just that those skills and attributes are not being used and harnessed in the right way, to get the best results.
The tin told us what we would be getting, we knew he didn’t have ‘skill’ like a Garcia for example, we knew he didn’t have the heading ability of a Crespo, we knew he wasn’t a fox in the box like Fowler.
The tin said we were getting, pace, power and goals and who can argue that we haven’t got that?

As for the transfer price, he didn’t set the price, also lets take into account how much GH was willing to pay for Diouf, so £14m for a player wanted ACROSS EUROPE (c’mon Juve and Barca don’t come calling if you have nothing to offer) at the time wasn’t too bad a business, its just that we didnt read the instructions on how to use him.

It was sadly just bad timing, what with Rafa coming in and such. But I am sure if (more likely WHEN) we sell Cisse in the summer, the team buying him, will once again, just like us, know what they are getting, because it says so on the tin, but I think if they actually read the instructions and take heed, then Cisse will undoubtedly flourish.

Liverpool Anytime again :angry:
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Postby Theo@home » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:20 am

Nothing wrong with that post.. welcome back LA - keep it up...
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Postby el_stinger » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:12 am

Its a good post, its made me think. Too bad about the writer. Must have stolen it from another site.
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Postby Ciggy » Sat Mar 18, 2006 12:46 pm

Theo@home wrote:Nothing wrong with that post.. welcome back LA - keep it up...

He's been banned twice, and your welcoming him back?
Well I dont take to kindly to someone who disrespects my city and the people that live in it.  :no
There is no-one anywhere in the world at any stage who is any bigger or any better than this football club.

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