Liverpool FC Forum

by **66-1112520797** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:08 pm

Im sorry, but you can compare the heart and grit shown by the players from yester-year
to the players of today .
Money shouldnt even come into the equation.

by **JohnBull** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:54 pm

The other night Sunderland charged £5 for an adult and £1 for a kid. The ground was full in no time and that one bit of sanity will guarantee the next generation of supporters.

I,for one, cannot lose the feeling that the board are taking the pyss out of the supporters and while LFC is, and always will be, in my marrow there is always the feeling that it is no longer MY club. It's become a rich man's hobby and the bread and butter supporters are incidental.

The game is no different now than in the 50s, 60s etc etc. They've brought in the puffter ball, the stupid off-side rule, no back pass but at the end of the day a genuine player is still a genuine player. a winning side needs 100%ers and not ones who only play when they feel like. Today's situation would never have happened if Shanks was still here because he'd never have bought the buggers in the first place. I'm one of the lucky ones who actually met Shanks a few times and he could weigh a person up in seconds and when he spoke you listened.

Without our history there is no LFC

by **Irish LFC fan** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:00 pm

A man talking sense at last!!!

In my opinion, if a player is not up to standard then get rid. Look what happened Houllier...he made-do with sub-standard players and he was the one that was sacked, not the sub-standard players.

I honestly believe that Rafa is the man for the job, he has something about him that tells me that he has a plan.

What you say about it not being OUR club any more...I think that is the common thought throughout football.

I think the Board have to take a long hard look at themselves because they have watched this feeling grow and have watched the club go down hill for the past 10-15 years.

We need our stability back!!!

by **JBG** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:37 pm

John Bull and Irish LFC Fan: I know what you are saying and in many ways, yes, of course you are right.

Liverpool FC has a glorious past, it is one of the things that makes the club special.

Shankly and Paisley were great men, and we had numerous great players and great teams in our history.

To any Liverpool fan that did not grow up in the city (wools and OOTERS like myself) it is the fabulous history that attracts us to the club.

The problem with our history, however, is that for the past decade or so, it has been used as a stick to beat around the head of various managers and players. We have a few bad results, and we get the line "Shanks would turn in his grave" etc.

At times that criticism has been utterly justified.

My own beef with that comment is that its wheeled out EVERYTIME we have a string of bad results, and its just not helpful. Its counter productive.

Houllier made many, many mistakes, but if we are fair to the man, he got a bit of a raw deal at times. Some of the criticism he received in the last 18 months damaged the team and damaged the club. A good team always has one characteristic: confidence. The constant barrage of criticism drained the confidence from Houllier and his players. It didn't help one iota, except, perhaps, force David Moore's hand (eventually) and earn Ged the sack.

We now appear to be entering the early stages of the same thing happening with Rafa Benitez. Will Benitez be hounded out like Ged was?

The reality is, out treble in 2001 and Istanbul aside, we have long been severed from our glorious past. We can no longer say that we are going through a blip or a transition and that the glory days are just around the corner. We have had 15 years of serious underperformance in the league, and the circumstances in England have changed so much in that time that there is no simple solution. There is no magic wand to turn things around in a season or two. In effect, its like the club is starting afresh once more. A new team needs to be built in difficult circumstances, and this will take a couple of years. There will be hard knocks along the way.

I as much as anybody want a return to the golden times, but the way things are turning out with the fans and the former players over the past three years are threatening to turn the Liverpool manager's position into a poisioned chalice. We are in danger of turning it into the Inter Milan or the old Athletico Madrid job, where managers are forced out after a year or two, or even after a few months.

Rafa has delivered the Champions League, he deserves a shot at the Premiership. He needs a couple of years. He can turn things around.

by **wrighty (not mark!)** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:52 pm

I'm a belieeeeeeeeeeeeeevah! yersum! I belieeeeeeeeeeve!

The story will be different come end of the season. Mark my words

by **Irish LFC fan** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:02 pm

There seems to be some confusion JBG

I never said that Bill Shankly would be turning in his grave at the current Liverpool team. I said:

"Bill Shankly must be turning in his grave to see Liverpool players jogging back after they loose the ball, DIVING to try to cheat a referee, mis-placing simple 10 yard passes, not even hitting the target when a ball comes across with no defenders around etc."

My point was that we have a few sub-standard players that we need to get rid off.

The next thing to point out is that I have no problem with Rafa. I said:

"Fair enough Rafa is his own man, and I for one back him 100%"

You are obviously a very intelligent person who can string together a fantastic paragraph or 2 but don't take the odd phrase here and there and try to brand me as one of those fans who comes out of the woodwork when we have a few bad results and spouts off stuff about the glory days.

Because, like I said:

"And I also never said that I was worried about the past, I am scared stiff of the future and what it could bring..."

Rafa is the Man. He has a plan. He just needs to get rid of deadwood and players who are not up to the standard needed anf the ones who don't deserve to pull on that jersey.

by **JBG** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:26 pm

Irish LFC fan wrote:There seems to be some confusion JBG

I never said that Bill Shankly would be turning in his grave at the current Liverpool team. I said:

"Bill Shankly must be turning in his grave to see Liverpool players jogging back after they loose the ball, DIVING to try to cheat a referee, mis-placing simple 10 yard passes, not even hitting the target when a ball comes across with no defenders around etc."

My point was that we have a few sub-standard players that we need to get rid off.

The next thing to point out is that I have no problem with Rafa. I said:

"Fair enough Rafa is his own man, and I for one back him 100%"

You are obviously a very intelligent person who can string together a fantastic paragraph or 2 but don't take the odd phrase here and there and try to brand me as one of those fans who comes out of the woodwork when we have a few bad results and spouts off stuff about the glory days.

Because, like I said:

"And I also never said that I was worried about the past, I am scared stiff of the future and what it could bring..."

Rafa is the Man. He has a plan. He just needs to get rid of deadwood and players who are not up to the standard needed anf the ones who don't deserve to pull on that jersey.

Point taken. I was more going on a general rant about criticism in general, maybe I was a bit out of order in directing it at you.

Where abouts from the Rebel County are you from?

by **JohnBull** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:38 pm

I can live with being beaten, it's not the results that bother me, it's the way we get beaten.
I've seen us stuffed out of sight by great teams and while I didn't enjoy it I didn't blame the side because they did their best and you could see it hurt them as much as me.

There are players out there now who seem to think it was just another day at the mill and so what !

by **Irish LFC fan** » Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:39 pm

Point taken?

Nah man, that's not how it works! I say something and then you are supposed to argure back.

Let's face it, we're obviously bored...we're both on a Liverpool FC forum rather than working...so let's get the debate going!

Do you agree that Rafa should get rid of the sub-standard players (Traeore, Pongull, Kewell, Crouch, Zenden)?

Rest assured if Rafa is sacked tomorrow (which I feel it will be very bad for the club) these players will still be there collecting their absurd paychecks.

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