Liverpool FC Forum

by **azriahmad** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:51 am

Banga, to simply say that Mourinho's success has more to do with the size of Chelski's wallet than his own abilities is a bit selling him short.

I agree that the man is a tit (or c*nt, take your pick) but he has proven to be a supreme motivator of very large egos and that he is also quite good tactically. During the Bolton game, he went off to the dressing room earlier to "draw his diagrams" and explain what he wanted from his charges in the second half and proceeded to take off del Horno and put on Gudjohnson. You see that the Chelski players work their socks off and are extremely motivated, although we hate their guts.

Compare his Chelsea to Raneiri's and there is a lot of difference in mentality and application of their tasks, although they don't entertain much, even when they win by a big margin. Maurinho's Chelsea is like a giant crushing ahead and they need only half a mistake to punish the opposition.

As for Rafa, I don't know why he is insistent on persisting a system Liverpool clearly lack the necessary players to excel. Like I said, the man is no idiot, but his stubborness sometimes makes you think otherwise...

by **steviec** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:59 am

Personally I think that one of the problems is that the Spanish players cannot adjust to the pace of the English Prem. In la Liga they usually have space and time to show their skills. X Alonso for all his passing ability, doens't command midfield, Luis Garcia ? well please sell him to Juventus and Josemi and Morientes to Fray Bentos. Sissoko came from La Liga too and needs more time to adjust. We can't use excuses about matches in Europe tiring us out ( What would Shanks and Bob say to that one) Chequebookelsea don't look tired.

Digitum Extractum

by **andy_g** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:00 am

Espionage wrote:Its so annoying that after every bad result we have to go through this charade of 2-3 Rafa/Josemi/Traore/Kewell/Zenden/formation/Spanish/Morientes/Crouch/Garcia hating threads and then finally one of our senior members that has a brain posts a thread like this and then everyone shuts up

Cheers Lando

a senior member has the brain to post a thread like this berating everyone who has a diiferent viewpoint? and thats a good thing?

Lando, for all your verbal enthusiasm and sledgehammer like wit i think you're off line here. at the risk of sounding like part of a stuck record this is an open forum and people can express whatever views they like (and i'm talking about football views here, not the Barry kind). i'm annoyed about our performances and have questions about the managers tactics and subsitutions and i have the right to voice them. other people get more emotional and more annoyed and start saying they'd like to see the back of benitez - fair enough - point of view stated.

being unhapppy with your team and your manager is OK. it doesn't mean you're a traitor, it doesn't mean you're stupid or an imbecile, it doesn't mean you should go and support Chelsea. if we stop asking difficult questions for fear of being accused of being traitors we're getting into some difficult territory.

stupid thread, if you ask me.

by **bigmick** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:14 am

I'm with Andy on this one. Loyalty is a wonderful thing in fans and Liverpool have the best, but it is not unreasonable to question the direction we are taqking right now. I will tell you this right now for an absolute certainty, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever who we sign in January unless we can sort out our collective mentality in the prem. In whichever level of football you take part you must compete. There has to be a collective desire to succeed because often the team which posesses this commodity in the fullest measure, will prevail in the end.
When we go 1-0 down at fulham, where is the roll the sleeves up merchant, grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and turning it on it's head? When Garcia concedes posession cheaply, where is our man berating him and impressing upon him the value of posession? Posession that was like as not hard won in a crunching tackle ten seconds earlier. When Kewell strolls through games, or Morientes allows himself to be brushed aside tamely for the umpteenth time where is the wild eyed talisman giving them a bit of clenched fist gee-up? Don't tell me that man is Steven Gerrard because he isn't. Not in the current framework of the team anyway.
People talk about 25 million for this bloke or that bloke. Find the bloke or blokes I'm on about, spend the money on them and let's compete, scrap for a result. None of this drooping shoulders and "it's not gonna be our day today. Look at the amount of posession we've had, it's gonna be another one of those days". You can talk about 4-5-1, systems and tactics all you like but that, right there is the problem for me.

by **LFC #1** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:33 am

bigmick wrote:I'm with Andy on this one. Loyalty is a wonderful thing in fans and Liverpool have the best, but it is not unreasonable to question the direction we are taqking right now. I will tell you this right now for an absolute certainty, it makes absolutely no difference whatsoever who we sign in January unless we can sort out our collective mentality in the prem. In whichever level of football you take part you must compete. There has to be a collective desire to succeed because often the team which posesses this commodity in the fullest measure, will prevail in the end.
When we go 1-0 down at fulham, where is the roll the sleeves up merchant, grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and turning it on it's head? When Garcia concedes posession cheaply, where is our man berating him and impressing upon him the value of posession? Posession that was like as not hard won in a crunching tackle ten seconds earlier. When Kewell strolls through games, or Morientes allows himself to be brushed aside tamely for the umpteenth time where is the wild eyed talisman giving them a bit of clenched fist gee-up? Don't tell me that man is Steven Gerrard because he isn't. Not in the current framework of the team anyway.
People talk about 25 million for this bloke or that bloke. Find the bloke or blokes I'm on about, spend the money on them and let's compete, scrap for a result. None of this drooping shoulders and "it's not gonna be our day today. Look at the amount of posession we've had, it's gonna be another one of those days". You can talk about 4-5-1, systems and tactics all you like but that, right there is the problem for me.

the man you speak of is undoubtedly Carra, the heart of our team, the one player in our team who is truly irreplaceable.

Everytime Josemi gave up possession easily or made a mistake, Carra was berating him.

The problem is you can't have just one or two players putting it all in, it has to be the whole team, and tbh the likes of Carra were carrying too many passengers on Saturday.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 2:34 pm

andy_g wrote:
Espionage wrote:Its so annoying that after every bad result we have to go through this charade of 2-3 Rafa/Josemi/Traore/Kewell/Zenden/formation/Spanish/Morientes/Crouch/Garcia hating threads and then finally one of our senior members that has a brain posts a thread like this and then everyone shuts up

Cheers Lando

a senior member has the brain to post a thread like this berating everyone who has a diiferent viewpoint? and thats a good thing?

Lando, for all your verbal enthusiasm and sledgehammer like wit i think you're off line here. at the risk of sounding like part of a stuck record this is an open forum and people can express whatever views they like (and i'm talking about football views here, not the Barry kind). i'm annoyed about our performances and have questions about the managers tactics and subsitutions and i have the right to voice them. other people get more emotional and more annoyed and start saying they'd like to see the back of benitez - fair enough - point of view stated.

being unhapppy with your team and your manager is OK. it doesn't mean you're a traitor, it doesn't mean you're stupid or an imbecile, it doesn't mean you should go and support Chelsea. if we stop asking difficult questions for fear of being accused of being traitors we're getting into some difficult territory.

stupid thread, if you ask me.

Thats fair enough, but don't forget that this is MY opinion. Ergo, I am free to express it. :;):

I am sick and tired of Hustler and the like deliberately spreading negative vibes around the forum. Although they are entitled to their opinions, they tend to wreck otherwise interesting and meaningful threads. They are a vermin, continually dying out, only to "re-invent" themselves as "Luis Garcia 1/2/...2005". It is pathetic. They are imbeciles.
The fact that Hustler is free to make an absolute mockery of this place and it's members is completely beyond me. He has the passion of a French WWII deserter, and the LFC knowledge of a carrot. While I admit I enjoy barating them, if only they could sod off to General Chat, that would be something.
Ultimately, I doubt we will ever be rid of Hustler or his crones, but I bleeding well wish we could have an end to the doom-merchants and sh*t-spurters.
Rafa's going nowhere, and he'll play 4-5-1 with whatever personnel he sees fit until HE decides otherwise. We are playing miles better football now than at any point under Houllier, and that suits me. We are Champions of Europe, but we're struggling to find the net at the minute. Big wow.

by **REDTILLDEAD** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 3:09 pm

desperado0831 wrote:If we can manage to draw at all the away games and win all the home matches after this then we can be the top three too. Come on.

Mmm?..whatever your on man I want some!! :eyebrow

by **FrankM** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 4:45 pm

Benitez had his squad in at Melwood on Sunday to watch a re-run of the Fulham game and he told his players the first half just wasn't and isn't acceptable for Liverpool Football Club.

Benitez said: "We had more determination in the second half, but the first half was the same kind of performance away from home as last year.

"Everyone must understand these kinds of games are important. It's acceptable to play at the same level as Chelsea and lose, but it's not acceptable to play Fulham, whom we know we are better than, and come away with nothing.

"It was as though we didn't understand the importance of the game in the first half. Only in the second was there a response, and then I felt it was a question of time whether we would score, but their keeper made a lot of saves.

"Last season we made a lot of mistakes and I thought we were learning from them. We've started strongly in other away games and I didn't expect to see us play like this again after last year.

"This is our first defeat away this year and we can't afford to make the same mistakes in future. It's important the players understand we can't approach games in this way."

Benitez says everyone has to improve including the manager himself and his staff as everyone is in it together.

"It's not just the players who need to improve, but all of us," said Benitez. "I include the staff, the players, everyone.

"We all know we need to change the attitude, particularly after European games. Yesterday we all spoke and watched the match again. The performance of the team was bad in terms of the aggressiveness of the players.

"We had a lot of the ball, and controlled the play, but didn't show enough until the second half. We've had these problems before after a Champions League game.

"We've all seen the big mistake we made with our first half performance and now we need to correct it."

Read this and call those of us questioning things imbeciles.

I think Rafa is finally getting the message.

I'm sick of this " We're Liverpool F.C FFS, Champs of Europe". Yes we are. Yes we have the greatest fans, but we are entitled to criticise if we are not happy at the efforts of the team. And now at least it seems Rafa agrees with us

by **teamleader1** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 5:16 pm

Its true that some on here live for the bad results and if the bad results dont come along they find fault where it dosnte exist
IMHO thats not getting involved in a legitimate debate

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:14 pm

teamleader1 wrote:Its true that some on here live for the bad results and if the bad results dont come along they find fault where it dosnte exist
IMHO thats not getting involved in a legitimate debate

Good point. Thankyou.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:21 pm

FrankM wrote:Benitez had his squad in at Melwood on Sunday to watch a re-run of the Fulham game and he told his players the first half just wasn't and isn't acceptable for Liverpool Football Club.

Benitez said: "We had more determination in the second half, but the first half was the same kind of performance away from home as last year.

"Everyone must understand these kinds of games are important. It's acceptable to play at the same level as Chelsea and lose, but it's not acceptable to play Fulham, whom we know we are better than, and come away with nothing.

"It was as though we didn't understand the importance of the game in the first half. Only in the second was there a response, and then I felt it was a question of time whether we would score, but their keeper made a lot of saves.

"Last season we made a lot of mistakes and I thought we were learning from them. We've started strongly in other away games and I didn't expect to see us play like this again after last year.

"This is our first defeat away this year and we can't afford to make the same mistakes in future. It's important the players understand we can't approach games in this way."

Benitez says everyone has to improve including the manager himself and his staff as everyone is in it together.

"It's not just the players who need to improve, but all of us," said Benitez. "I include the staff, the players, everyone.

"We all know we need to change the attitude, particularly after European games. Yesterday we all spoke and watched the match again. The performance of the team was bad in terms of the aggressiveness of the players.

"We had a lot of the ball, and controlled the play, but didn't show enough until the second half. We've had these problems before after a Champions League game.

"We've all seen the big mistake we made with our first half performance and now we need to correct it."

Read this and call those of us questioning things imbeciles.

I think Rafa is finally getting the message.

I'm sick of this " We're Liverpool F.C FFS, Champs of Europe". Yes we are. Yes we have the greatest fans, but we are entitled to criticise if we are not happy at the efforts of the team. And now at least it seems Rafa agrees with us

Have I at any point suggested that everything is perfect? Have I at any time suggested that the team are playing faultless, inspiring football 100% of the time?
No.
I maintained that the problems are rooted in the form of players, not the managerial style/playing personnel.
I am not insulting anyone with a valid, supported arguement
only those who keep banging on about a crisis. (For they ARE imbeciles).

Are you implying that I am wrong to be annoyed with mindless morons dictating the direction of this forum? I think you've been sniffing some glue if thats the case.

by **FrankM** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:42 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:
FrankM wrote:Benitez had his squad in at Melwood on Sunday to watch a re-run of the Fulham game and he told his players the first half just wasn't and isn't acceptable for Liverpool Football Club.

Benitez said: "We had more determination in the second half, but the first half was the same kind of performance away from home as last year.

"Everyone must understand these kinds of games are important. It's acceptable to play at the same level as Chelsea and lose, but it's not acceptable to play Fulham, whom we know we are better than, and come away with nothing.

"It was as though we didn't understand the importance of the game in the first half. Only in the second was there a response, and then I felt it was a question of time whether we would score, but their keeper made a lot of saves.

"Last season we made a lot of mistakes and I thought we were learning from them. We've started strongly in other away games and I didn't expect to see us play like this again after last year.

"This is our first defeat away this year and we can't afford to make the same mistakes in future. It's important the players understand we can't approach games in this way."

Benitez says everyone has to improve including the manager himself and his staff as everyone is in it together.

"It's not just the players who need to improve, but all of us," said Benitez. "I include the staff, the players, everyone.

"We all know we need to change the attitude, particularly after European games. Yesterday we all spoke and watched the match again. The performance of the team was bad in terms of the aggressiveness of the players.

"We had a lot of the ball, and controlled the play, but didn't show enough until the second half. We've had these problems before after a Champions League game.

"We've all seen the big mistake we made with our first half performance and now we need to correct it."

Read this and call those of us questioning things imbeciles.

I think Rafa is finally getting the message.

I'm sick of this " We're Liverpool F.C FFS, Champs of Europe". Yes we are. Yes we have the greatest fans, but we are entitled to criticise if we are not happy at the efforts of the team. And now at least it seems Rafa agrees with us

Have I at any point suggested that everything is perfect? Have I at any time suggested that the team are playing faultless, inspiring football 100% of the time?
No.
I maintained that the problems are rooted in the form of players, not the managerial style/playing personnel.
I am not insulting anyone with a valid, supported arguement
only those who keep banging on about a crisis. (For they ARE imbeciles).

Are you implying that I am wrong to be annoyed with mindless morons dictating the direction of this forum? I think you've been sniffing some glue if thats the case.

"It's not just the players who need to improve, but all of us," said Benitez. "I include the staff, the players, everyone.

The above statement lays the blame on players AND MANAGEMENT.

Name the imbeciles if you will. I dont consider myself one and reserve the right to give my opinions on performances that are embarrassing, as at Craven Cottage on Saturday.

Incidentally I have not offered any opinions yet but as I say I reserve the right to.

by **Hotrod** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:53 pm

Totally agree with all the boys that Rafa is the man and calling for his head at this stage is disgusting however i do think the simple problem with us is that we just can t seem to take our chances i mean the blackburn and sunderland games cisse could have easily got a hatrick in nando cud have scored 2 against blackburn 2 and birmingham crouch shud have done better and against fulham we cud have snacthed a point to be fair their goalkeeper had a blinder if we can start really taking most of our chances we will start winning more games beacuse most games we have looked fairly solid at the back but i do think there are certain player who have not be cutting it recently i hate to say Garcia is one of them he is a great player but if played in his propur postion i think rafa is only playin him there due to a lack of right winger wud like to see pongo givina chance there and i think that morintes has really disappointed me i mean this is not a new thing he has not been hittin the back of the net enough for someone of his quailty and teh way we know he can if rafa rates him then i am afraid so do i
great goin boys keep it up

by **parchpea** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:57 pm

If we are not going to question the team and management then we may as well shut the forum right now. The craziest thing of all is to bury your head up Rafas backside and trundle along as if nothing is happening. The fact is that Liverpools performances in the league are unacceptable. We all know it, the players know it and Benitez knows it. He will have to fix it and sooner rather than later. Im sure we all support him in that but the sharp edge is that if hes doesnt then hes going to come under fire. This is the realtion between a team and its followers, its normal and played out the world over at every single club. We are doing that here and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

by **destro** » Mon Oct 24, 2005 7:05 pm

Lando_Griffin wrote:We have played some fr*gging hard matches this season, with all and sundry attempting to beat the Champs of Europe. Playing us is a cup final for most teams.
We played away in Belgium on Wednesday, then away in London Saturday.
Sh*tski were at home on Wednesday, and they got another day to recouperate.
IT ALL FERKING ADDS UP.

hard matches ? since when did BIRMINGHAM AND FULLHAM become hard teams. its the same old story we held MAN U and SPURS (CHELSEA was a one off ) and we fail to do it against the inferior teams in the league. next prem games are WEST HAM, ASTON VILLA ,PORTSMOUTH, MAN CITY and WIGAN we as champions of europe (as everyone keeps reminding each other on here) should expect maximum points from those games and 2 wins from the games in between PALACE and ANDERLECHT. the time of covering the cracks and offering stupid excuses like they had more rest than us and everyone plays out of their skins against us needs to stop .CHELSEA as english champions face teams trying just as hard if not harder to beat them but they get the results. its now time for the manager and players deliver what every LFC fan expects

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