Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:23 am

Winning the Champions league has a lot to answer for. This season opinions on the boards seem more polarised than ever as fans work out whether we are sh!te, improving or both. Garcia is either a superstar or a t0sser unfit to wear the red shirt, Hyppia is either finished or a rock and Traore is, almost, universally accepted as being unfit to play for the Dog and Duck. Rafa has lost the plot, why can't he win in the Prem when he can in Europe? Crouch was a waste of money, Sissoko was a fantastic signing two weeks ago but sh!te last night, Kewell can feck off but if he comes back and does something we might let him off. Jeez I 've got caught up in it myself, my opinion and moods swinging about like the missus with PMT. It might be time to look at a few facts.

We have played, I think, seven in the Prem and three in the CL. We have lost just the one which given our tricky start in the Prem aint bad. Included in those ten games we have played Chelsea twice and are the only team sofar this season in any competition to avoid conceding a goal and therefore defeat against them. We have also played against Manure and have gone to White Hart Lane. Two of our three games in the CL have been away and we have won both, once again pretty good. In seven of the ten games we have played, we haven't conceded a goal. In other words, we concede in less than one of every three games at the moment. We are looking like good things to qualify for the next stage of the CL and the reserves, while being crammed full of kids are going pretty well.

Our Djib (go on Lynds. You can call him what you like kid if he keeps scoring. Note to Stu, nobody likes a bully) has scored two in two. Both were excellent goals which won us games. His play overall in those games has been poor but there's an element in me that says so what? I've slagged the guy but please, please keep playing him now. Our season would look completely different at this point had he not scored those two goals. He's no Worldbeater but we could do with a striker on a hot streak right now. Sissoko has settled in well and looks like a good buy. Also Reina, while being overpriced looks to be an improvement on Dudek and while Crouch has taken time to find the net, most would agree he at least has a good touch. Our captain appears to be playing better than ever now his future is sorted.

Not everyone, including me, is a fan of the 4-5-1 but most would agree it gives us more solidity. Rafa seems to be set on it so there you go and we move forward. We aren't playing the fluent, flowing football that we all like to see but we are grinding it out at the moment. It's not all doom and gloom. Every game at the moment is crucial and the one at Fulham on Saturday is no exception. Once again, win there and our start begins to look respectable. Win without conceding and they'll start talking about our solid defence again. Win and Cisse scores and suddenly we've got a striker on fire. Win and Crouch scores and suddenly we've got a renaissance man, ready to bang 'em in from all angles.

I think we're getting there guys. I'm not certain, but I think it's true.

by **laza** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:08 am

Better not to post too many of those mate.
Or else the new age true fans will just condemn you as someone who has put on rose coloured glasses
While there was always going to be a heightened expectation after our CL win , some of the reactions this season to our performances so far has bordered on the insane
While there is still a long way to go and i dont think a lot of it will be rosy, hopefully if can grind out some more results, install a bit of confidence and have a bit of luck then future will be looking a lot better then it was at the end of the 2003/2004 season

by **RedWolf35** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:57 pm

I for one think we're doing alright

Anyone that disagrees will have to answer to my wife

:sniffle

by **bigmick** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:02 pm

RedWolf35 wrote:Anyone that disagrees will have to answer to my wife

I must confess this was a considered topic opener and I expected to have a good debatetoday on the back of it. I expected quite a few replies and plenty of banter but it never really happened. Maybe people just can't be bothered with more tosh about "the season sofar" etc etc.
Then when I do get a reply it's this one and I have to say Wolfie it's a bit out of left-field mate. I'm stuck as to whether we can debate or not really. Maybe it's best just left to slip down the boards again.

by **Sabre** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:04 pm

Wise post, bigmick

We have played, I think, seven in the Prem and three in the CL.

Some facts.

Liverpool: 7 games. 10 points. Seems to be in crisis in the EPL
Barcelona: 7 games. 10 points. No one is really bothered in can barsa, as the gameplay is good. SIXTH place
Deportivo: 7 games. 10 points. Same there. Seventh Place

Perhaps we are looking too much to this incomplete league table in which Liverpool has 2 games less, and we are biased by the fact that our hated ChelSki is winning everything, circunstamce that won't be like that the whole season.

Sabre

by **andy_g** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:53 pm

nowt wrong with the post and the sentiments mick. i'm also right with you on this one and have posted my sentiments in other threads - there's so much discontent to answer to.

i dunno what it is. we're playing decent football but lacking the killer touch, thats all it is. maybe winning the champions league has distorted perceptions about what we should be doing and this is exacerbated by the ridiculous achievements of chelsea.

i know liverpool haver played some beautiful football in the past, but day in day out football isn't as its written in roy of the rovers or the 2005 champions league final. football can often be a game of attrition with teams grinding out results with the odd spark along the way.

we're in decent nick and improving slowly but surely.

by **76-1115222408** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:54 pm

I saw this post and only four posts in it, THEN I read the post and think WHY?

At last someone with a sense of reason, thankyou BM...FFS!!! These boards are becoming crazy, its like no matter what th team does, there are complaints.

I was on another forum (a very rare occurence) as this one just done my head in last night and the contrast is amazing. We have people here, complaining and saying they dont understand the manager (which they dont need to anyway!) and over there everyone was pleased with the result and many with the performance too.

I dont understand what people want, I for one dont mind saying if I think we are good or Sh.it, I will say it as I see it.

But I think too many people are over expectant. Here are some reasons to NOT be overexpectant and thus reasons, that put our start into a better context:

*We were all in all poor last season, bar the CL games (even then we qualified with 2mins to go, as opposed to the possibilty of doing it with 2 GAMES to go this time round!)

*Even in the CL final the gap in class was readily apparent. Yes we won, but were not the better team, we just had more balls, fight, heart and Fans to get the result plus some type of miracle

It could so easily have been 3-0 or worse that night, which considering who we were playing and how we were playing would not have been unfair, as they are a Great team, but we were a decent team with some great players. Some may not like this analogy, but for me has to be taken into account for where we really are as a team.

*We didnt get a new CB (I think Rafa wants Sami to be the backup not playing reg) didnt get a left or right winger (not midfielder, winger, they are different animals). Also brought in some squad players and Crouch, who al need to fit in with Rafa's plans, regimes, techniques and also their teammates.

*Our most potent goal threat has/had low confidence due to the manager not exactl saying he doesnt want to sell him, days before the transfer deadline. Then this striker is not played from the start or hardly in his preferred position. At the same time, other srikers are injured or not firing (crouch) so we look unlikely to score at times apart from SG, which is worrying.

*Gerrard has been out in games against Betis / Anderlecht, both AWAY from home.

*We started playing 'competitive' (intentional qoute marks there

) in July.

*We are persisiting in using a system (4-5-1/4-2-3-1) and it is clear we do not have the players available to fully utilise this sytem.

Look, I cold go on, but I think that is eough for now, but my point is, if we have all these things that are clear negatives, but have somehow got the start we have had and only lost one to a team that hasnt lost a game in any competition and only drawn one (against who I wonder

), then this has to be seen as a decent, if not good start IMO. Dont let the CL win smoke the truth of how good/bad we are.

Now if all the above negatives were not present (plus all others) then how would we be fairing? Simao on the right and Gonzales on the left playing in a 4-4-2, could have been completely different, who knows, but all I will say is, all is not as bad as some believe it is. We are doing well, without playing well, so how will we be when we DO play well and also have the players that Rafa wants?

Maybe you will argue, but thats all 'ifs and 'buts' it is not NOW, but thats my point, NOW is as good as we can really expect to be taking things into consideration.

by **A.B.** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:36 pm

andy_g wrote:nowt wrong with the post and the sentiments mick. i'm also right with you on this one and have posted my sentiments in other threads - there's so much discontent to answer to.

i dunno what it is. we're playing decent football but lacking the killer touch, thats all it is. maybe winning the champions league has distorted perceptions about what we should be doing and this is exacerbated by the ridiculous achievements of chelsea.

i know liverpool haver played some beautiful football in the past, but day in day out football isn't as its written in roy of the rovers or the 2005 champions league final. football can often be a game of attrition with teams grinding out results with the odd spark along the way.

we're in decent nick and improving slowly but surely.

Man Utd had a problem with finishing off their chances last season, we seem to have that problem now.

by **thegreedo** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:23 pm

Nice one Mick, as anytime said there's been a lot of negative :censored:

spoken on what has always previously been a constructive forum with plenty of good, level headed views. I like to think there's enough of "level header's" left to make sure a considered post such as yours doesn't just slide down the board.

I like many others allow the thoughts of a crushing "total football" style victory to creep into my head every friday only to feel deflated by the time head back into work on a monday. We simply have to start being realistic, don't allow last may to become a millstone around our necks and give us unrealistic thoughts of a speedy return to former glories. It's going to take time, and we are heading, albeit slowly, in the right direction.

So, in a nutshell. I'm with you Mick, it's not all doom and gloom. Not just yet anyway!

by **Liverpool 4 EVA** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:42 pm

Great post once again bigmick

by **stanley park** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:14 pm

well said mick,but you must admit,that there are to many parallel's in the reign of rafa to that of houllier. and i think that is why there seems to be a great deal of concern from a lot of fans.we are,or seem to be replacing one culture for another,from french to spanish.now if it works then thats great,but is it? apart from alonso none of the spanish players have set the world on fire,well in the premeirship anyway,and lets face it as shankly said thats our bread and butter.and before you all jump on my back, i dont expect us to challenge chelsea for a long time,especially with chelsea signing everyone who's not in a wheelchair.but weve played :censored:

football in the league,and most people expected a more exciting brand of football.and i'am not saying that benitez isn't the man to deliver, but he's got a lot to learn and we should be buying world class players,if we ore really serious about challenging chelsea.

by **NiftyNeil** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:39 pm

We've hardly got off to a flyer in the league, but neither have we had a poor start.
In other words, we are on a knife's edge at the moment where there is a fine line between praise and criticism. I think most of us are suffering from Schizophrenia this season, one day we are the prophets of doom and the next we are proudly beating our Liverbird clad chests. This week has been a fine example of that - We struggle to beat 10 men Blackburn on saturday and the black clouds gathered. Then we beat Anderlecht and things are looking rosie again.
A good run of league games would cure our schizophrenia, but the team need to somehow cure their own split personality first.

by **stanley park** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:48 pm

NiftyNeil wrote:We've hardly got off to a flyer in the league, but neither have we had a poor start.
In other words, we are on a knife's edge at the moment where there is a fine line between praise and criticism. I think most of us are suffering from Schizophrenia this season, one day we are the prophets of doom and the next we are proudly beating our Liverbird clad chests. This week has been a fine example of that - We struggle to beat 10 men Blackburn on saturday and the black clouds gathered. Then we beat Anderlecht and things are looking rosie again.
A good run of league games would cure our schizophrenia, but the team need to somehow cure their own split personality first.

true and these are all winable

fulham a
west ham h
aston villa a
portsmouth h
man city a wigan h
middlesborough h
sunderland a
newcastle a
everton h (cert)

by **JC_81** » Thu Oct 20, 2005 11:59 pm

Good post again Mick.

I have to say though that the polarised opinions on this forum are hardly surprising, we've all been guilty of it at some point. My latest being my complete bafflement at Benitez's team selection and use of subs last night. I refuse to be consigned to the 'in rafa we trust' brigade. The guy did superbly to win in europe last season, and he's a top coach, but he's not perfect and if he does things that I don't agree with then :censored:

it, this is a discussion forum so I'll call it like I see it.

Our team are still very inconsistent. We're solid at the back, then we concede 6 in 2 league games. We look good coming forward in some games (without cutting edge) then we look like we can't buy a goal. 4-5-1 one week, 4-4-2 the next, then 4-5-1 with Sissoko as a winger? FFS, it's all quite unsettling isn't it? I for one never know what Benitez is going to do next.

But 2 wins in a row now (even if they were unconvincing) and Cisse getting started up front all looks a bit better. And as you say, our early season away draws will look a lot better when we get a few more league wins under the belt. It was a very tough start to the season fixture-wise but we have a good run of fixtures coming up. I think we've had a solid start result-wise and hopefully the performances will get a bit more fluent.

by **tel** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:57 am

The big difference in the team is Cisse. He's got pace and movement, and we're less predictable.

Playing Couch on his own upfront is a big mistake. He is just not mobile enough to unsettle defenders close to goal.

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