Liverpool FC Forum

by **stmichael** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 12:43 pm

Stumbled across this and found it quite shocking considering we spent £20m on a new academy in 2000:

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/match/season/tables/reserves.htm

Now I know that rafa has plans for the youth/reserve set up. I mean the guy's already done more for the youth setup than Houllier did in six years. However they say "the table doesn't lie" and so doesn't it prove that the junior teams are not working???

To an extent I wouldnt worry too much about the poor reserve team at the moment because most of our reserve team players have found themselves in the first XI because of our ridiculous injury crisis. Maybe this is also having a knock-on effect on the youth team whereby their best players have been drafted into the reserve team to fill the gaps, thus leaving them with players who are out of their depth at the moment!!

The thing is, I remember Houllier taking a huge pop at Heighway about this - but this was diluted because we had bigger problems at that time - and everyone assumed he was just looking to shift attention away from the first team. Consequently, there were rumours of a rift between the two for much of Houllier's reign.

But whatever way you look at it, has Heighway really delivered? To me, we need a radical strategy change....because (and much as i like them) the Welsh's, Warnock's and Partridge's of this world are only ever going to be solid squad members at best. Can the club really plan to build the future around these guys when realistically it's going to take millions of pounds to keep up with the top 3?

Looking back now, maybe graeme souness was lucky in that he brought through the best crop of youth players for many years at the club, alright he was a pretty pi$$ poor manager, but he brought through some fine youngsters. Under uncle roy and Houllier the only real players of note to come through were owen and stevie g. Nobody had had a sustained run in the team, some have have flirted with the first team and then been sold, but nobody is quite good enough.

I think it's luck and good scouting/ recruitment at a younger level. Once they get into the youth and reserve teams, amazing talent will always shine through. Gerrard, Owen, Fowler, Macca et al didn't need nurturing in the reserves - they went straight into the first team squads.

The current crop of established reserves do not have any players any where near that calibre I'm afraid.

Am I just being pessimistic or do you agree?

by **Starbridge42** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:16 pm

I agree unfortuantely. But then you cant expect to produce players like Fowler, Owen, McMannam, Gerrard n Carragher every crop

If you got 1 every 3 crops u r doing fantastically well.
And young Karl Noon (16 or 17) is very highly rated.

by **115-1073096938** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:38 am

If you can produce a premiership level player once a year you're doing something right. Its an average, look whats came through the last 13 years or so.

Liverpool:

Wright
Carragher
Matteo
Warnock

Thompson
Gerrard
Welsh
McManaman

Fowler
Owen

Out of those lot, Fowler, McManaman, Gerrard, Owen and Carragher are of a superb standard. Matteo, Thompson, Wright and Warnock are more than useful.

Then theres United.

They haven't produced any strikers, they've produce the same sort of quality over a similar amount of time.

The next best is probably West Ham. Defoe, Ferdinand, Carrick, Lampard, Johnson and Cole. Thats a potential league winning base to build a team around.

But beyond that, look around an name me a side thats produced two or three other class players? Or even premiership players?

There aren't many sides around at all.

Boro seem to have had two through now in McMahon and Downing and Everton have had Rooney and Osman the last year or two. Apart from that... theres not much else out there.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:46 pm

great players are born not made, so theirs a certain amount of luck in finding them. years ago the fa set up a school of excellence at lilleshall and no one came through it of any great note, and these lads had the best coaches teaching them week in week out.
its good to have top class facilities for the lads to train in but football is an instinctive game, you can produce solid, tactically astute pro`s out of lads who are naturally athletic, but the likes of gerrard and rooney had something inside that other lads dont have.
a feel for the game. you can teach anyone a step over but it`s WHEN you do it is important, its not going to fool anyone if you do it ten feet away from the defender like mark walters.

by **RAFABENITEZ** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:47 pm

Do Chelsea have a youth team? i was just wondering cos u never hear bowt hem on sky sports news.

by **Iceman69** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:01 pm

yes it is worrying cause if we play like this on wednesday v Juventus, we are gonna get dumped out of the champions league big style, plus 4th spot will be much harder to achieve this season, Everton and Bolton well in contention.

St Michael, that banner of cheryl tweedy is doing my cake in. she's a racist paki beater in nightclubs

by **KARMANI** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:10 pm

Iceman69 wrote:St Michael, that banner of cheryl tweedy is doing my cake in. she's a racist paki beater in nightclubs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2848665.stm

http://forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/showthread.php?t=54725

Cheryl Tweedy is a Racist Arrogant Slag (in my opinion!)

I must stress that everything I say here is only MY OPINION, but I believe that opinions are valid when they are put forward constructively. . . so, here goes. . .

Cheryl Tweedy is racist and she is certainly GUILTY of assaulting nightclub attendant Sophie Amogbokpa on that fateful night in January 2003. I am usually a good judge of character and I can nearly always tell when someone is lying just by the words they choose to use. I believe that Cheryl Tweedy is an arrogant racist jumped-up karaoke tart who has clearly let sudden fame go to her head - BIG TIME!

She was outrageously drunk on that night when she was in that nightclub with her fellow bandmate - Nicola Roberts. When she entered the toilets in that nightclub after several wines, vodkas, red bulls, and champaigne, she shared a cubicle with her friend Nicola. Why would two people want to share the same toilet? The only obvious answer is that they were doing something together that they didn't want others to see, and I don't mean having a pee or indulging in lesbian activities! In my opinion and experience, they were snorting cocaine or taking E. When you consider the fact that (a) she was only 19 years old, and (b) she was already drunk out of her skull when she entered the toilets, and © fame was something that was completely brand new to her, she would certainly not have been in a position to react in a civil and down-to-earth manner when the toilet attendant grabbed her arm in an attempt to prevent her from leaving without paying for the large amounts of sweets that she took.

Ms Tweedy has claimed in court that it was the toilet attendant who threw the first punch. In my opinion this is sheer codswallop! I have worked in a bank, in petrol stations, and in numerous retail environments, and if a customer tried to make off without paying for something then there's no way I would start throwing punches at that person. After all, I would personally stand to gain nothing for my efforts! I might go as far as trying to grab the person's arm to stop them from leaving but I certainly wouldn't want to throw any punches, especially if it was only over a couple of handfuls of sweets.

Ms Tweedy claims that the toilet attendant punched her in the face first whilst she rummaged in her bag to find some money to pay for the sweets. Does this ring true to you? It certainly doesn't ring true to me. If Ms Tweedy had been punched by the attendant in the right cheekbone as she claimed in court, then where was the bruise? And in any case, why would Ms Amogbokpa punch Ms Tweedy just for looking in her bag to find some money? It doesn't sound like a likely scenario does it?. Ms Amogbokpa is a 39-year-old, church-going law student. Does that sound like the kind of person who would go throwing punches at someone over a bunch of sweets? If Tweedy had been hit first then why didn't she just walk away and alert another member of staff? And why has she not pressed charges against Ms Amogbokpa? And if Tweedy acted merely in self-defence then why did several independent witnesses say that she had to be physically restrained and that she remained highly aggressive afterwards? In addition, these onlookers also witnessed Ms Tweedy boast "Bring that black bitch up here and I'll finish the job". Even if you assume that the racist remarks that Tweedy allegedly made were just exaggerations in Ms Amogbokpa's side of the story, you simply cannot ignore the fact that Tweedy behaved outrageously that night under the influence of alcohol and her own sense of self-importance.

To me it seems blatantly obvious that Tweedy is guilty as charged. I believe that the court should not only find her guilty and make an example of her, I think that they should also give her the stiffest sentence possible because she has tried to escape punishment by pleading not-guilty. She should NEVER be held up as a role model for kids and she should be treated as the arrogant self-centred racist bully that she undoubtedly is.

If I could sum Ms Tweedy up in one word, that word would be - DISGRACEFUL!

by **Paul C** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:20 pm

Iceman69 wrote:yes it is worrying cause if we play like this on wednesday v Juventus, we are gonna get dumped out of the champions league big style, plus 4th spot will be much harder to achieve this season, Everton and Bolton well in contention.

St Michael, that banner of cheryl tweedy is doing my cake in. she's a racist paki beater in nightclubs

You call here racist and use the word 'paki' in the same sentence, I sense a hypocrit!!

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:15 am

Iceman69 wrote:yes it is worrying cause if we play like this on wednesday v Juventus, we are gonna get dumped out of the champions league big style, plus 4th spot will be much harder to achieve this season, Everton and Bolton well in contention.

you said that after the Bolton game as well, we are just a different team in Europe, as weird as it sounds, it's like their are 2 Lfc's - Jekyl and Hyde if you like.

Our style obviosuly suits the european competition.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:16 am

Paul ****** off lad...

We get called "Brits" all the time.

watch this... BRITain. PAKIstan.

See?

Can you see where it comes from? In liverpool, alot of people shorten words... ozzy (hospital), chinese (chinky) chippy (chip shop), just because you are reffering to pakistani as a paki doesn't mean you are racist.

Racism is a one way thing anyways. Freedom of speech for all. What is wrong is people being all politically correct and telling us how to speak and what we can and can't say. I personally don't find black, chinese, or aisian women attractive, that doesn't make me racist.

To many people are quick to jump on a stupid bandwagon in this country and to be quite honest its a ****** disgrace. I think its a disgrace the way they build mosque's and ****** like that over here and let the number of immigrants they do in. Its awful. You move to a certain country to live there way and to experience there life. If not you don't come here.

But then again, its free money, a free house and a good lifestyle for them isn't it.

I'm not agiainst black people, foreigners, aisians or even marsions, i couldn't give a toss, i take people as i find them, if they are decent i don't care weather they're black, white or green, but what i do hate is the ****** who accuse everyone of being racist.

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:23 am

agree with all that Stu except the change their way of life thing.

some people don't leave their home nation by choice, often they will be killed if they stay. Also, why shpouldn't they be allowed to build their places of worship, are you saying they should drop their faith and become a Christian or something, or give up their cultural beliefs etc.

I am not from the country that I live in now, but I am very proud of where I come from, and will laways consider myself a New Zealnder, not an Aussie. And if someone said that i had to assimilate and become an Australian i would tell them to ****** off.

by **Iceman69** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:49 am

Stu your spot on,

1 million illegal immigrants currently living in britain they reckon....all using the health service, education and stealing our jobs, and costing the tax payer billions.

Majority of the time it is for a bettter life, benefits, housing etc. no one will accomodate immigrants like the brits!

We should dump them all in france, as they were chicken in the gulf war.

and who foots the bill??? The TAXPAYER!

yes, cheryl tweedy got off with that racist assualt! what a scam.... even though a bouncer at the club testified in court, overhearing her saying..." I want to go back and finish off that black bitch! "...

Shocker.

by **115-1073096938** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:42 am

Shut up you aussie t******

No seriously, i don't like the fact that its a complete double standard. Muslim women are allowed everywhere with only there eyes showing. Yet, if i go for a jog, put my hood up (to keep my body heat in around my neck where you lose most of it) and then stop in a shop on the way back for a "refreshment

" i get told i'm not allowed in because i've got my hood up.

Also, no head gear in schools, unless you're a Jew or a muslim... Well i'm a kopite and Fowlers my god, but if i went into school wearing a Liverpool hat, do you think i'd get away with that?

Like i said, i take people as i find them. Theres absoloutely no double standards with me at all. Same rules for everyone is the only rule i go by. The thing about Austrailia and America which i like is simple, if you aren't going to contribute in a positive way to there country you aren't coming in, its as simple as that. Thats how it should be. Both countrys are run properly, well, at least alot better than ours. Ours is a ****** disgrace.

Wonder how long it will take Mistyred to come on and start calling me racist...

by **LFC #1** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 9:50 am

fair enough Stu, but I am not a fan of Australia throwing migrants in detention centres, which are like living in squalor. These people should be allowed to keep their beliefs though, the thing in France with the preseident saying the Islamic girls couldn't wear the thinsg on their head in school, was poor policy if you ask me as it is their religion, however I see your point on double standards.

New Zeland is very flexible and has let many immigrants in, and althought it is the humane thing to do it is turning NZ into a second class nation with the huge amount of taxpayer money going into welfare payments, hence the reason many New Zelanders are moving out.

I am nothing near a racist, racism disgusts me. Most of my mates were actually born overseas, which i like as it has givne a much greater respect and understanding for other cultures.

by **Redulike** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:35 am

To be fair Stu you are a racist.

You as I understand are a rozzer and therefore should be aware that putting your hood up is a technique used by robbers to avoid identification - donning the full burka generally isn't.

To equate a love of football with a religion is also obviously total bollox and at first I assumed you were being sarcastic but then I realised you're not.

You obviously don't take people as you find them if you did it wouldn't bother you if they like to dress a bit differently.

Also "Paki" is an offensive word because of the context it generally gets used in. It is normally meant to be offensive so when used even if innocently people get offended. Don't use it because it offends people. It's like calling somebody a "******". Yes I W*nk (frequently) but if somebody calls me a "******" it is generally meant to be offensive.

It's people like you who get the police a bad name.

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