Liverpool FC Forum

Firstly to answer Raoul. One person isnt doing his job and that is Gerrard. Secondly we need an upgrade on Lucas Diame or Waynama would have been perfect. Although I think Gerrard could do Lucas job. You would find we would be a far far better team line up as

          Hendo          Gerrard

                    Coutinho

Secondly to Maypax who doesnt understand football quite clearly. Have you Ever seen the likes of Sturridge chase the ball or Van persie? Ibrahimovic ? No because that isnt what they do they arent haraasers.

Your second point I can see a little bit more but I'll tell you how it works. Say we are playing Chelsea and Henderson Is chasing down all there passing. Hazard passes the ball into the middle of the midfield to lets say Oscar that is where Lucas should be there to win the ball as soon as he gets it makes a pass to ANY player That is Lucas' job

Just like a centre half pairing In a succesful centre half pairing one will be a strong player who blocks and tackles and another will play the ball away.

Coutinho is player 3 or he should be. He should recieve the ball and look to feed a front 3 and then joining in the attack.

Rightly or wrongly, I am always positive about LFC.
However, the hull game was waiting to happen because for me we have got players who are not mentality strong enough, and in some cases are simply not good enough.
Johnson goes from one extreme to the other. One minute Im boasting that we have the best right back in the country, next Im calling him a lazy, useless lump
Lucas is a trier, no doubt. But he doesnt have the intelligence or the skill to take us to the next level
Henderson is pretty clueless most of the time and again, like Lucas, is not clever or talented enough for us to be successful
Allen is a bit lightweight and has virtually proven that he doest seem to have the class needed for us to progress
Gerrard is in a muddle because he doesnt know where his best position is and is as detrimental as he is beneficial
Mignolet, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Suarez, Sturridge, Coutinho are clearly our best players with possibly Sakho, Toure, Cissoko being decent in the future?
The rest, Aspas, Sterling, Alberto etc. are average at best and although I firmly believe that on our day we can beat ANYONE, I have my reservations that we can sustain a run which will lift us up the table and keep us there

[quote="Thommo's perm » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:15 am" Cissoko being decent in the future?
[/quote]

fook sake thommo, i spat tea all over the screen when i read that 

red till i die!! » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:25 am wrote:[quote="Thommo's perm » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:15 am" Cissoko being decent in the future?

fook sake thommo, i spat tea all over the screen when i read that  [/quote]

LFC1990 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:54 am wrote:Firstly to answer Raoul. One person isnt doing his job and that is Gerrard. Secondly we need an upgrade on Lucas Diame or Waynama would have been perfect. Although I think Gerrard could do Lucas job. You would find we would be a far far better team line up as

          Hendo          Gerrard

                    Coutinho

Secondly to Maypax who doesnt understand football quite clearly. Have you Ever seen the likes of Sturridge chase the ball or Van persie? Ibrahimovic ? No because that isnt what they do they arent haraasers.

Your second point I can see a little bit more but I'll tell you how it works. Say we are playing Chelsea and Henderson Is chasing down all there passing. Hazard passes the ball into the middle of the midfield to lets say Oscar that is where Lucas should be there to win the ball as soon as he gets it makes a pass to ANY player That is Lucas' job

Just like a centre half pairing In a succesful centre half pairing one will be a strong player who blocks and tackles and another will play the ball away.

Coutinho is player 3 or he should be. He should recieve the ball and look to feed a front 3 and then joining in the attack.

All hypothetical rubbish. Your version of a midfield lacks two important things - versatility and creativity.

Henderson chokes in front of goal just like he did against Arsenal. The only hope in our midfield is Gerrard, who has been poor this season.

Look at Arteta for Arsenal and Flamini. They may be primarily defensive players but that doesn't stop them from scoring goals and starting attacks which Lucas is incapable of doing. And that's our midfield in summary - complete rubbish. Even Everton has a better midfield than us.

And I've seen RVP make tackles in his own half when playing for Man Utd. When a striker keeps harassing a defender, it gives the latter less time to think about where or who to he wants to pass the ball. It's just common sense.

One of the reasons our midfield is also average is because we rarely have any width.   

Anybody remember the average Albert Riera?  Played in arguably our best team of the last 20 years.  He wasn't exactly a fantastic winger but he always stayed on the left wing and forced the opposition to cover him.  This created more space for Gerrard, Torres, alonso

We rely on our fullbacks to provide width.  But our fullbacks aren't the greatest bunch either are they? 

Lets take Flanno for example.  He offers next to nothing going forward.  So if we play Flanno at LB, we have no width at all on the left side unless we play a winger / wide forward.  This is why Rodgers picked Moses against Hull. 

If we can't provide enough width or any real threat in the wide areas, well then its easy for our opponents to pack the centre midfield area.  We then blame Lucas and Gerrard for losing the battle.  But its our lack of quality often in the wide areas that makes it easy for teams to get at us in the centre.

In a strange way, Downing could have been a much more useful player than Sterling or Moses.

jacdaniel » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:56 am wrote:One of the reasons our midfield is also average is because we rarely have any width.   

Anybody remember the average Albert Riera?  Played in arguably our best team of the last 20 years.  He wasn't exactly a fantastic winger but he always stayed on the left wing and forced the opposition to cover him.  This created more space for Gerrard, Torres, alonso

We rely on our fullbacks to provide width.  But our fullbacks aren't the greatest bunch either are they? 

Lets take Flanno for example.  He offers next to nothing going forward.  So if we play Flanno at LB, we have no width at all on the left side unless we play a winger / wide forward.  This is why Rodgers picked Moses against Hull. 

If we can't provide enough width or any real threat in the wide areas, well then its easy for our opponents to pack the centre midfield area.  We then blame Lucas and Gerrard for losing the battle.  But its our lack of quality often in the wide areas that makes it easy for teams to get at us in the centre.

In a strange way, Downing could have been a much more useful player than Sterling or Moses.

Perish the thought!
Cant the manager see this though and instruct them to go wide? Or substitute them for someone who will?
This is one of my major concerns with B Rod. His lack of quick thinking and action

Thommo's perm » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:00 am wrote:

jacdaniel » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:56 am wrote:One of the reasons our midfield is also average is because we rarely have any width.   

Anybody remember the average Albert Riera?  Played in arguably our best team of the last 20 years.  He wasn't exactly a fantastic winger but he always stayed on the left wing and forced the opposition to cover him.  This created more space for Gerrard, Torres, alonso

We rely on our fullbacks to provide width.  But our fullbacks aren't the greatest bunch either are they? 

Lets take Flanno for example.  He offers next to nothing going forward.  So if we play Flanno at LB, we have no width at all on the left side unless we play a winger / wide forward.  This is why Rodgers picked Moses against Hull. 

If we can't provide enough width or any real threat in the wide areas, well then its easy for our opponents to pack the centre midfield area.  We then blame Lucas and Gerrard for losing the battle.  But its our lack of quality often in the wide areas that makes it easy for teams to get at us in the centre.

In a strange way, Downing could have been a much more useful player than Sterling or Moses.

Perish the thought!
Cant the manager see this though and instruct them to go wide? Or substitute them for someone who will?
This is one of my major concerns with B Rod. His lack of quick thinking and action

Well he seems to favour having Suarez and Sturridge both playing as centre forwards.  To accommodate that we either have to sacrifice some width and / or control in the centre midfield. 

I honestly think Rodgers is struggling to find a balanced system with the personnel he has. 

I would like to see us try something like this:

                           Mignolet
                    Toure           Agger
Johnson                                    Cissohko
                      Gerrard  Lucas
                               
  Henderson          Alberto/Allen       Coutinho 
                             Suarez

I'd play Toure and Agger at CB.  Our vice captain and Toure with the experience.  They kept 3 clean sheets in our opening 3 games. I'd play Cissohko just because he might offer a little more than Flanno at LB going forward.
Lucas and Gerrard in the middle. 

Henderson on the right.  Not because he is brilliant out there but he will cause problems and run a lot   

The number 10 role was the hardest to decide on... Coutinho would be ideal to play there behind Suarez but would Alberto or Moses be any use out wide?  I don't think they would. 

So we sacrifice Coutinho somewhat and shoe him in out wide. Then I'd probably put Allen as number 10.

I think that could work.

LFC1990 » Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:54 am wrote:Secondly to Maypax who doesnt understand football quite clearly. Have you Ever seen the likes of Sturridge chase the ball or Van persie? Ibrahimovic ? No because that isnt what they do they arent haraasers.

What planet are you on? I'm sorry, but the main lack of understanding on how football works, is from you. It sounds to me like you're playing far to much football manager.

Top players all work hard. For a start... van Persie has scored goals this season which have come from his closing down, winning the ball and finishing, so that alone, straight away completely invalidates your point. All top players work hard for team. That should be a given.

You're trying to make it sound that the only way to play the game with 3 in midfield is the way you you suggest. Barcelona don't have a "chaser"... they have Iniesta and Xavi... supported by Busquets. There are many ways to set up a midfield and many different combinations you can use.

You're doing your best to adapt your arguement to suit your point that Henderson is some sort of good player. A midfielder who isn't particularly quick, isn't a great passer, has very average vision, can't tackle to save his life, isn't good in the air, has a very average touch, scores an average amount of goals and lets at least 10 games a season completely pass him by.

To be quite honest, your arguements a load of rubbish, as is your judgement on a player who absolutely defines mediocrity.

maypaxvobiscum » Wed Dec 04, 2013 9:06 am wrote:What exactly does Henderson offer to the team apart from being a hard-working English Dirk Kuyt that doesn't score?

Thats an insult to Dirk Kuyt. He was a much better player than Hendo is.

jacdaniel » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:56 am wrote:One of the reasons our midfield is also average is because we rarely have any width.   

Anybody remember the average Albert Riera?  Played in arguably our best team of the last 20 years.  He wasn't exactly a fantastic winger but he always stayed on the left wing and forced the opposition to cover him.  This created more space for Gerrard, Torres, alonso

We rely on our fullbacks to provide width.  But our fullbacks aren't the greatest bunch either are they? 

Lets take Flanno for example.  He offers next to nothing going forward.  So if we play Flanno at LB, we have no width at all on the left side unless we play a winger / wide forward.  This is why Rodgers picked Moses against Hull. 

If we can't provide enough width or any real threat in the wide areas, well then its easy for our opponents to pack the centre midfield area.  We then blame Lucas and Gerrard for losing the battle.  But its our lack of quality often in the wide areas that makes it easy for teams to get at us in the centre.

In a strange way, Downing could have been a much more useful player than Sterling or Moses.

Don't agree with Riera being Average at all. Think he was a very good player. He had excellent feet and used the ball superbly. Riera's main problem was that he couldn't perform over the full nintey minutes, he'd be excellent for 30, dominate for thirty, then completely dissapear from games. It wasn't a fitness issue either as sometimes it would the last 30 minutes he'd perform. Very odd player, but average? No. Not for me.

Always maintained we looked a better side when he was in the team.

Also on Downing, its in "no strange way" or "could have been" about it. He'd have been far more useful. Downing was never a bad player... infact, Downings an excellent player technically. He used the ball ok, but someone needed to tell him you can't kick a ball through a defender. Never seen someone have so many shots blocked in my life. Just a shame he has about as much bottle as a pancake otherwise he'd have been a quality signing.

Stu the Red » Wed Dec 04, 2013 3:11 pm wrote:

jacdaniel » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:56 am wrote:One of the reasons our midfield is also average is because we rarely have any width.   

Anybody remember the average Albert Riera?  Played in arguably our best team of the last 20 years.  He wasn't exactly a fantastic winger but he always stayed on the left wing and forced the opposition to cover him.  This created more space for Gerrard, Torres, alonso

We rely on our fullbacks to provide width.  But our fullbacks aren't the greatest bunch either are they? 

Lets take Flanno for example.  He offers next to nothing going forward.  So if we play Flanno at LB, we have no width at all on the left side unless we play a winger / wide forward.  This is why Rodgers picked Moses against Hull. 

If we can't provide enough width or any real threat in the wide areas, well then its easy for our opponents to pack the centre midfield area.  We then blame Lucas and Gerrard for losing the battle.  But its our lack of quality often in the wide areas that makes it easy for teams to get at us in the centre.

In a strange way, Downing could have been a much more useful player than Sterling or Moses.

Don't agree with Riera being Average at all. Think he was a very good player. He had excellent feet and used the ball superbly. Riera's main problem was that he couldn't perform over the full nintey minutes, he'd be excellent for 30, dominate for thirty, then completely dissapear from games. It wasn't a fitness issue either as sometimes it would the last 30 minutes he'd perform. Very odd player, but average? No. Not for me.

Always maintained we looked a better side when he was in the team.

Also on Downing, its in "no strange way" or "could have been" about it. He'd have been far more useful. Downing was never a bad player... infact, Downings an excellent player technically. He used the ball ok, but someone needed to tell him you can't kick a ball through a defender. Never seen someone have so many shots blocked in my life. Just a shame he has about as much bottle as a pancake otherwise he'd have been a quality signing.

Both of those players though, despite their flaws, they offered us a lot of width. 
We don't really have anyone like that now.

We see it a lot these days.  Players becoming wide forwards or wingers that don't actually play there.  Henderson, Kuyt, Aspas, Borini, Suso, Garcia.  Players just tend to get shoed in out wide. 

If I'm honest, I think Rodgers is really struggling to figure out how he wants us to play and how to field a balanced team. 
He wants Suarez and Sturridge to both play as centre forwards.  He wants Coutinho to play as number 10 ideally.  He wants Gerrard in the team for his creativity. 

Its very hard to achieve that without sacrificing the width.  And once we sacrifice that teams know they can pack the centre and we'll offer little out wide.