Liverpool FC Forum

Ace the signings don't look like world beaters but then how many of us knew what Cortinho was capable of. Inter Milan certainly didn't !!! To suggest that none of the possible signings are an improvement on what we already have is a bit harsh. The new scouting team that we have seem to be more imaginative and that is going to be a prerequisite with a considerably smaller budget than the top Premiership teams. I'm certainly prepared to give these lads a chance to see how they develop before suggesting that they cannot improve the team.Come on mate the glass needs to be half full....

devaney » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:41 pm wrote:Ace the signings don't look like world beaters but then how many of us knew what Cortinho was capable of. Inter Milan certainly didn't !!! To suggest that none of the possible signings are an improvement on what we already have is a bit harsh. The new scouting team that we have seem to be more imaginative and that is going to be a prerequisite with a considerably smaller budget than the top Premiership teams. I'm certainly prepared to give these lads a chance to see how they develop before suggesting that they cannot improve the team.Come on mate the glass needs to be half full....

Its not about the glass being half full or empty. We're spending the money you claim we dont have on gambles. That much, I'm sure pretty much everyone agrees on. My point is, that same money, those same wages that many claim we dont have, that many claim we didnt have last season when we spent over 50mill, could and should be spent on more proven players.

Coutinho, the player you claim we took a gamble on, had more champions league experience than most of our first team players. He appeared in a friendly for the senior Brazil squad a month after he turned 18 ! He was widely considered a top prospect in the game, and if you look at his appearances, stats,experience, and achievements AT THE TOP LEVEL prior to us signing him its nowhere near that of the players we are after now. I dont think any Liverpool fans who knew him criticized the deal before it was made and the manager/scouts deserve credit for getting him on the cheap.

To your point about my assessment of the players not being better than what we have being harsh, who would you bring into the starting 11 from the names I've mentioned ? Toure ahead of Skrtel ? or Aspas ahead of Sturridge ? I dont think so. What it means is that the likes of 10mill Borini who had an unfortunate season, and 7mill Coates who is yet to get a run in the starting 11 are now less likely to get a game next season. And the cycle continues.

We dont need to be imaginative, we dont need more players on the sidelines waiting for a chance or as you put it 'developing'. We aren't too far from where we need to be to challenge for a top4 spot and I really dont believe that a side that will only be competing in the league and Cup and not Europe should be focusing on improving the options on the bench rather than the starting 11.

Agree with that fully Ace

Coutinho was certainly not an unknown - he was very highly rated by Rafa but just couldn't fit in at Inter.

coutinho was being compared to ronaldinho when he was making his way through the ranks at vasco de gama, the big question in brazil a few years ago seemed to be who was the better prospect, neymar or coutinho? reading the comments on youtube clips from back then most people rated coutinho higher!
lets face it inter dropped a huge clanger selling him for £8m and for once we got lucky, in terms of potential coutinho is up there with the neymars and muriels.
as others have said we cant compete with the oil barons for the £50m and £60m signings but a club of our size and turnover (8th biggest in the world according to deloitte and thats without having any CL for 4 years on the spin) should be willing to spend £20m+ on the superstars of tomorrow like coutinho, luis muriel, mkhitaryan etc etc. just look how much of a difference just one of those top, top prospects made to our team, he`s 20 years old, been here five minutes and already looks one of the best players in the league.
i`ve no doubt the likes of aspas and atsu are solid players but will they realistically be the difference between finishing 6th and CL football? if west brom or everton signed aspas and atsu most people here wouldnt raise an eyebrow, if the likes of chelsea or united signed them we`d all be rubbing our hands together made up saying `right, they`ve brought f##k all in this window, this is our big chance to make some ground up on them`.
i`ve nothing against signing players for the future, this luis alberto lad looks very classy and apparently this llori lad beat christiano ronaldo`s sprint record at sporting which is some going when you are about 9 foot tall and a CB but that doesnt mean we shouldnt be trying to improve the first team as well.

aCe' » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:21 pm wrote:

devaney » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:41 pm wrote:Ace the signings don't look like world beaters but then how many of us knew what Cortinho was capable of. Inter Milan certainly didn't !!! To suggest that none of the possible signings are an improvement on what we already have is a bit harsh. The new scouting team that we have seem to be more imaginative and that is going to be a prerequisite with a considerably smaller budget than the top Premiership teams. I'm certainly prepared to give these lads a chance to see how they develop before suggesting that they cannot improve the team.Come on mate the glass needs to be half full....

Its not about the glass being half full or empty. We're spending the money you claim we dont have on gambles. That much, I'm sure pretty much everyone agrees on. My point is, that same money, those same wages that many claim we dont have, that many claim we didnt have last season when we spent over 50mill, could and should be spent on more proven players.

Coutinho, the player you claim we took a gamble on, had more champions league experience than most of our first team players. He appeared in a friendly for the senior Brazil squad a month after he turned 18 ! He was widely considered a top prospect in the game, and if you look at his appearances, stats,experience, and achievements AT THE TOP LEVEL prior to us signing him its nowhere near that of the players we are after now. I dont think any Liverpool fans who knew him criticized the deal before it was made and the manager/scouts deserve credit for getting him on the cheap.

To your point about my assessment of the players not being better than what we have being harsh, who would you bring into the starting 11 from the names I've mentioned ? Toure ahead of Skrtel ? or Aspas ahead of Sturridge ? I dont think so. What it means is that the likes of 10mill Borini who had an unfortunate season, and 7mill Coates who is yet to get a run in the starting 11 are now less likely to get a game next season. And the cycle continues.

We dont need to be imaginative, we dont need more players on the sidelines waiting for a chance or as you put it 'developing'. We aren't too far from where we need to be to challenge for a top4 spot and I really dont believe that a side that will only be competing in the league and Cup and not Europe should be focusing on improving the options on the bench rather than the starting 11.

You need to remember the transfer window hasn't even opened yet, never mind shut, so I wouldn't be so quick to get my knickers in a twist if I were you.

Secondly, Rodgers has stated that he wants to build up the squad 17-18 core players he feels that can come in and do a job, remember last season when we were stranded with the youngsters for depth?

Kenny Kan » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:04 pm wrote:

aCe' » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:21 pm wrote:

devaney » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:41 pm wrote:Ace the signings don't look like world beaters but then how many of us knew what Cortinho was capable of. Inter Milan certainly didn't !!! To suggest that none of the possible signings are an improvement on what we already have is a bit harsh. The new scouting team that we have seem to be more imaginative and that is going to be a prerequisite with a considerably smaller budget than the top Premiership teams. I'm certainly prepared to give these lads a chance to see how they develop before suggesting that they cannot improve the team.Come on mate the glass needs to be half full....

Its not about the glass being half full or empty. We're spending the money you claim we dont have on gambles. That much, I'm sure pretty much everyone agrees on. My point is, that same money, those same wages that many claim we dont have, that many claim we didnt have last season when we spent over 50mill, could and should be spent on more proven players.

Coutinho, the player you claim we took a gamble on, had more champions league experience than most of our first team players. He appeared in a friendly for the senior Brazil squad a month after he turned 18 ! He was widely considered a top prospect in the game, and if you look at his appearances, stats,experience, and achievements AT THE TOP LEVEL prior to us signing him its nowhere near that of the players we are after now. I dont think any Liverpool fans who knew him criticized the deal before it was made and the manager/scouts deserve credit for getting him on the cheap.

To your point about my assessment of the players not being better than what we have being harsh, who would you bring into the starting 11 from the names I've mentioned ? Toure ahead of Skrtel ? or Aspas ahead of Sturridge ? I dont think so. What it means is that the likes of 10mill Borini who had an unfortunate season, and 7mill Coates who is yet to get a run in the starting 11 are now less likely to get a game next season. And the cycle continues.

We dont need to be imaginative, we dont need more players on the sidelines waiting for a chance or as you put it 'developing'. We aren't too far from where we need to be to challenge for a top4 spot and I really dont believe that a side that will only be competing in the league and Cup and not Europe should be focusing on improving the options on the bench rather than the starting 11.

You need to remember the transfer window hasn't even opened yet, never mind shut, so I wouldn't be so quick to get my knickers in a twist if I were you.

Secondly, Rodgers has stated that he wants to build up the squad 17-18 core players he feels that can come in and do a job, remember last season when we were stranded with the youngsters for depth?

dont forget a lot of the problems we had at the beginning of last season was down to the new signings not stepping up to the plate, if the likes of assaidi, sahin, borini and allen (although he did start well) had hit the ground running we wouldnt have had to use so many young players.
we were short in the striking department but not really elsewhere.

dont forget a lot of the problems we had at the beginning of last season was down to the new signings not stepping up to the plate, if the likes of assaidi, sahin, borini and allen (although he did start well) had hit the ground running we wouldnt have had to use so many young players.
we were short in the striking department but not really elsewhere. 

True, although there's no guarantee ANY signing (no matter their price) will come in and step up to the plate - I mean we all thought we'd scored when we pipped Sahin to Arsenal's signature. Like you said, we were short in the striking department hence why we're probably being linked with quite a few forwards.

Mind you wasn't Borini injured at some point early on, leaving us with mostly Suso and Sterling. Shelvey and Wisdom got plenty of playing time too if I remember correctly.

Kenny Kan » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:40 pm wrote:

dont forget a lot of the problems we had at the beginning of last season was down to the new signings not stepping up to the plate, if the likes of assaidi, sahin, borini and allen (although he did start well) had hit the ground running we wouldnt have had to use so many young players.
we were short in the striking department but not really elsewhere. 

True, although there's no guarantee ANY signing (no matter their price) will come in and step up to the plate - I mean we all thought we'd scored when we pipped Sahin to Arsenal's signature. Like you said, we were short in the striking department hence why we're probably being linked with quite a few forwards.

Mind you wasn't Borini injured at some point early on, leaving us with mostly Suso and Sterling. Shelvey and Wisdom got plenty of playing time too if I remember correctly.

yeah, sahin looked a nailed on certainty to be a star in the prem, he was probably the biggest dissappointment of last season. he`s griped a bit since he left about rodgers not playing him in his preferred deep lying position but i`m not convinced he had the heart for the prem anyway.
i suppose that transfer window debacle at the end of last season  wasnt all doom and gloom, if we would have signed signurdsson and dempsey we probably wouldnt have bought coutinho and sturridge in the january, and i know who i`d rather have.

aCe' » Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:21 pm wrote:

devaney » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:41 pm wrote:Ace the signings don't look like world beaters but then how many of us knew what Cortinho was capable of. Inter Milan certainly didn't !!! To suggest that none of the possible signings are an improvement on what we already have is a bit harsh. The new scouting team that we have seem to be more imaginative and that is going to be a prerequisite with a considerably smaller budget than the top Premiership teams. I'm certainly prepared to give these lads a chance to see how they develop before suggesting that they cannot improve the team.Come on mate the glass needs to be half full....

Its not about the glass being half full or empty. We're spending the money you claim we dont have on gambles. That much, I'm sure pretty much everyone agrees on. My point is, that same money, those same wages that many claim we dont have, that many claim we didnt have last season when we spent over 50mill, could and should be spent on more proven players.

Coutinho, the player you claim we took a gamble on, had more champions league experience than most of our first team players. He appeared in a friendly for the senior Brazil squad a month after he turned 18 ! He was widely considered a top prospect in the game, and if you look at his appearances, stats,experience, and achievements AT THE TOP LEVEL prior to us signing him its nowhere near that of the players we are after now. I dont think any Liverpool fans who knew him criticized the deal before it was made and the manager/scouts deserve credit for getting him on the cheap.

To your point about my assessment of the players not being better than what we have being harsh, who would you bring into the starting 11 from the names I've mentioned ? Toure ahead of Skrtel ? or Aspas ahead of Sturridge ? I dont think so. What it means is that the likes of 10mill Borini who had an unfortunate season, and 7mill Coates who is yet to get a run in the starting 11 are now less likely to get a game next season. And the cycle continues.

We dont need to be imaginative, we dont need more players on the sidelines waiting for a chance or as you put it 'developing'. We aren't too far from where we need to be to challenge for a top4 spot and I really dont believe that a side that will only be competing in the league and Cup and not Europe should be focusing on improving the options on the bench rather than the starting 11.

I fully accept that on face value some of the signings don't look great but I'm prepared to give them and the new scouting team a chance. I'm also prepared to wait until the end of the transfer window to see how things develop. Have these players been brought in as replacements or squad players to give us some much needed strengthen depth?

I fully agree that we are not far away from being a half decent team. Who goes is going to be as important as who stays.It's early days lets see what happens.

Looks like Downing is set for a big decision with the echo reporting he is for sale for 5mill:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-off-load-stewart-downing-5654489

5 mill seems a bit cheap to me. I wonder if this means the club is expecting Costa's arrival despite reports to the contrary, or is does Rodgers feel we have strength in depth. Can't say I'm fussed either way if he stays or goes.

Raoul » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:23 am wrote:Looks like Downing is set for a big decision with the echo reporting he is for sale for 5mill:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-off-load-stewart-downing-5654489

5 mill seems a bit cheap to me. I wonder if this means the club is expecting Costa's arrival despite reports to the contrary, or is does Rodgers feel we have strength in depth. Can't say I'm fussed either way if he stays or goes.

I saw that story today, 5 million is way to low, even for Downing. If we get 8-9 mil i'd let him go & put that money towards getting Eriksen.

If we sell him for £5m that is a combined loss of £35m for Downing and Carroll and unfortunately wether we like it or not that is one of the key reasons that FSG are not throwing money around like confetti. FSG first major transfer market experiences have been an extremely expensive pill to swallow. Henderson, Borini and Allen are very unlikely to return a profit if they were sold now or in the future. I can understand why FSG aren't being silly with money.

Was looking at his LFC stats on wiki and if correct his (reported) £20 million signing equates to

Appearances 91 = over £200 thousand per appearance.

Assists 11 = just over £1.8 million per assist.

Goals 7 = just short of £3 million per goal.

Obviously his value isn't just about assists and goals but his overall contribution, imo his overall contribution is what he's paid for and his wages are not included in the figures shown.

I'd happily carry his bags to the taxi that takes Downing away from Anfield.

£5m is a derisory offer.

He is worth at least £8m to £10m in today's market.

If they won't pay that he should stay.  He was a decent first team regular last year and played pretty well.  Unless his leaving is directly linked to signing a significant improvement then they can shove their £5m up their ar$e.

Exactly that MK.

It's another cost cutting exercise IMO