Liverpool FC Forum

Benny The Noon » Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:24 am wrote:Some people will use it as an excuse to create problems and trouble. The funeral is going to be even worse - it's going to be an easy target for thugs to act up.

I'm in no doubt there will be some anarchists hell bent on causing a disturbance and the state police will have plans in place to prevent this and any peaceful demonstration by ordinary folk, who feel aggrieved that public money  is being used to bury the witch(words used in opening post) when we are continually reminded we are in such austere times....

Its sickening this wide spread adoration for this cunt,it seems even with the knowledge she let the good name of the Liverpool people
be besmirched and branded as 'murderers and thieves, ' she is still acknowledged as a luminary by the media, and the sycophantic sheep that
follow in their wake . Even now after all that's come to light, it is still very much a case of us against them ,and will always continue to be so.

Thatchers death may be the inspiration for more than just riots ,it may just trigger a whole new generation into reviling this soulless cunt
for the evil bitch she truly was. It could just be that the Tories celebrating her life with tax payers money could be the least popular move they
ever make ,it could even become the straw that broke the proverbial camels back.

Well said RBG. Carnt understand why   all this sh.ite  about her being a great leader and a old Woman so she should be given respect comes from. I had no respect for the b.itch when she was alive whatsoever.,so why should I give her any now??? Respect has to be earned. I hate her in death as much as I did when she was alive. I AM GLAD she is dead she should of died sooner,but it was worth the wait. As for the d.ickheads saying Karma will get me I doubt that,as Karmas going to be busy for quite a while sorting that b.itch out!!!!!  WERE GOING TO HAVE A PARTY!!!! 

The celebrating was done when she was no longer PM - celebrating when someone dies will never ever sit right with me. She was also a mother , grandmother etc she has a family. Seeing people celebrate must be hurting them a lot right now.

As an independent (Irish) observer (although one with, what some would call, left leaning politics) I see the facts of her tenure speaking for themselves and completely understand why there are people who will not mourn her passing, to say the least. Her admirers constantly say that "she was great for Britain", but when the cold stats are looked at, it's very clear that she wasn't "great" for everyone in Britain. They also say that Britain would have collapsed under a Labour government, but again such soundbites aren't backed up by any facts, because Callaghan lost the 1979 election, so it's impossible to say. However, what IS available to see, is that Callaghan's government had done a lot to turn around the mess that had proceeded him, caused by both Labour and Conservative governments in the early 70's. Heath's time in office is marked by a GDP that was in minus figures, for instance, directly leading to the re-election of Wilson in 1974. Wilson's government wasn't much better, even if they did get GDP figures back into a positive for a short while, but inflation was very high at 26%. Callaghan came to power in 1976 and under him GDP continued to rise steadily, while unemployment figures stayed stable at around 5%. By 1979, Britain's GDP had reached 5% too and was still rising, while unemployment was going down. Inflation dropped to around 8%, but was beginning to rise again, even if it was within acceptable figures.

All this changed the moment Margaret Thatcher and her conservative government were elected in in May. While inflation eventually dropped under her, back down to around 5% levels, GDP plummeted back into minus figures, making a long, slow rise to just over 5% by 1988. But unemployment rocketed up to over 12.5% and stayed very high for the remainder of her time in office.

Of course, we all know about her rampant privatisation of state owned concerns and the various disasters that followed that, and her deregulation of London's financial sector is directly responsible for the economic mess that Britain finds herself in today, even if it did create the illusion of financial prosperity for certain quarters of British society. Of course, Thatcher said there "...was no such thing as society."

Her tackling of her pet hate, the unions, also took up too much of her time and while their stranglehold over the political mechanisation of Britain needed to be dealt with, she allowed it to absorb her and in the end, all she did was transfer their balance of power to the financial sector, which was arguably worse in the end.

So, overall, while Thatcher may have been good for some in Britain, she was an unmitigated disaster for the majority. In her first year, she reduced the top rate of tax for the wealthy, while increasing tax for lower and middle income families. She also encouraged foreign investment, while destroying domestic production and wrecking the futures of many, many people on the lower rungs of the ladder. Fine for large private businesses, financial speculators, etc...disastrous for British society in general.

...and I didn't even mention the Poll tax.

I won't disagree that Thatcher was a cold hearted callous cow, or that her rigid monetarism policies were flawed.

However, I will disagree with the lefts revisionist view of Britain's economy pre Thatcher which endevours to absolve itself of any of the blame in Britain's demise.

Britain was already in the knackers yard.

The country in the mid-1970s had witnessed the strikes and power shutdowns of the “three-day week”, a stock-market crash, a secondary banking crisis, tough credit controls and the humiliation of its begging mission to the IMF for a loan. “Britain is a tragedy” Henry Kissinger, the US Secretary of State, lamented to President Gerald Ford, “it has sunk to begging, borrowing, stealing.”
It had also resorted to high taxation. By the decade’s end, the standard rate of income tax was 33 per cent, the upper rate, 83 per cent. Businesses were hit by corporation tax at 52 per cent. Talent voted with its feet, bringing the expression “brain drain” into vogue.

Nurses and ambulance drivers were on strike. Old people’s homes and schools were closing. The railways were not running. The electricians’ union marked the approach of Christmas 1978 by taking both BBC One and BBC Two off the air. The country was left with just ITV, to watch (the electricians waited until August 1979 to switch off ITV for 75 days).
More seriously, rubbish was piling high in the streets, creating a health hazard. The most potent metaphor of national decay was in Liverpool. There, a factory was being turned over to storage space for the dead because members of the GMWU union were picketing the cemeteries. Contingency plans were made to bury the city’s rotting corpses at sea.

On January 15 1979, Shore joined the prime minister, James Callaghan, and the rest of the Labour cabinet to discuss whether the national situation had deteriorated so seriously that troops should be brought onto the streets and a State of Emergency

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... e-her.html

Yes, it was well hunky dory for Britain back in the 70 's    as you can see. The fact is, when she was elected, Thatcher inherited an economy stuffed full of over-manned, state subsidised and union-run industries which were more often than not running at a loss calculated in millions which at the time, was a lot.

if your not content with the "torygraph", have it said from Jamie Reed, Labour MP!


The eulogies and condemnation following Baroness Thatcher’s death are coalescing into two clear truths. The first is that her legacy will always be contested: the nationwide reaction to Margaret Thatcher’s death – if viewed honestly – is one of embittered polarisation.

The second is that the British Left must always recognise the pivotal role it played in enabling Thatcher to succeed and prosecute a political programme that damaged so many of the people that progressive politics exists to serve. The lessons of Labour’s failures during the dominant Thatcher period are as relevant today as they were during her time in office.

The British Left fostered, enabled and created Thatcher’s premiership. But since her death, nowhere in the admonition of her time in power from left-wing critics is there any acknowledgement of their own side’s failure immediately before and during the Thatcher years. Honesty is a two-way street.

This week, I spoke with a veteran of that period who served in the trenches of Walworth Road. ‘I’ll never forget how we insisted on making it easier for her,’ he told me. A press officer from the pre-spin days, he recalled spending days searching out officially-sanctioned Labour Party election posters calling for unilateral nuclear disarmament and gleefully ripping down and shredding every one he could find.

Equally when trade unionists – and I am proud to be one – recall the vituperative attacks upon them and all that then followed, they must also recognise the pivotal role of the trade unions in destroying the Callaghan government. Labour’s civil war ushered in a period of Conservative rule lasting almost two decades; during which the party became the political equivalent of Pavlov’s Dog.

The painful truth of that period is that both the Labour Party and the Labour Movement was a wretched, shambolic, incoherent wreck which guaranteed successive Thatcher victories. For so many of us on the centre-left of British politics, the rightful denunciation of the economic and social suffering causd by Margaret Thatcher to so many millions in so many parts of our country – both North and South – must be accompanied by this acknowledgement: an unelectable Labour Party allowed this to happen.

Never again. Margaret Thatcher is one of the principal reasons I chose to enter politics. Fear of the left’s amnesia in assessing the reasons for her electoral success is one of the principal reasons keeping me here.

Jamie Reed is Labour MP for Copeland.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/jreed/2013 ... r-succeed/

I am not an admirer of MT, it was her policies that got me made redundant and having to go around the country looking for work but at the time she was elected Britain needed something to be done, whether it was her or another PM the country couldn't continue the way it was. Reading some of the posts is quite incredible, people with left leaning views are trying to rewrite history, the country in the 70's was a mess as KK's post states and lets remember that she won 3 elections and Labour has only themselves to blame for that for going even further left in the 80's. We are now seeing some people coming on and saying that the mess we are in now is down to Thatcher after 12 years of Labour governement in between, I'm surprised she has not been blamed for the Iraq war. I cheered when she was ousted but I once she was gone she was history and lets move on, the type of hate filled stuff coming out now has no place in a civilised society.

All I've heard from her sympathisers is the typical  Tory rhetoric that she was a woman of the time for the time ,I suppose in hindsight we should
be grateful that she had to wait till she was bitter and sufficiently hardened enough to come to power to inflict the maximum amount of damage
on Britain's most thriving industries ,I mean just think of what untold bedlam a spotty adolescent would have inflicted on our country ?

I guess those industries such as the Miners and Dockers respectively were simply not making enough money for this countries more affluent ,so
a shake up was needed ,certainly not enough cap doffing going on for those old Etonians .Never mind though, it seems like Thatchers manifesto
to regress the working class into more along the lines of an indigent population has been revitalised by Cameron and his cronies ....Old school tie
not essential it seems, so long as you've chewed on the same Dons dick at Eton.

Listen ?  If you're rich ,by all means jump in with both feet ,like those two working class heroes 'Ant and Dec ,but for f*ck sake unless your rolling
in the stuff like the two detestable little twats I've just mentioned, wake up!  and please desist from pushing Tory ideology on a forum
where its certainly not advised to telegraph your true vocations, especially if they're along the lines of shafting the working class so you can
retain your wine and cheese parties  ...^.. see what I did there ?

Let me explain in lay man's terms Thatcher ~Kelvin McKenzie ~Norman Tebbit ~The Sun ~Norman Bettison ~Rupert Murdoch, all names verboten
on a site specifically to do with Liverpool Football Club .Now is that so difficult a concept for some posters to grasp ?

All my own words ,not one quote lifted from a Tory driven broadsheet ,not one solitary quote to make your teeth itch.....Unless of course you're
a Tory sycophant ,in which case I couldn't give a flying fuck if I never converse with you again, let alone your agitated molars . 

Goodnight !!!

Another largely Orwellian post, where have I seen this before...

Do as I say, not as I do

Thriving Industries ?

They were all losing money - at a large rate - they werent thriving.

And since when was it decided that if you were a Liverpool fan you couldn't be a Tory supporter ?

He doesn't refute fact Benny. I mean "thriving industries", he just blurts emotional diatribe.

He's also fast becoming RAWKish/fascist; opposing any kind of democracy or liberalism in his attempts to mind control - say, do and believe as we OR basically fuck off.

lets just say that the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board as they were known back then ,were considerably better off than they were
in 1989, when the Conservative government led by Margaret Thatcher, deemed it necessary to  snatch away  the guaranteed
lifetime employment that was a pre requisite for any dock employee after a certain amount of years ,this abolition enabled The
Mersey Docks and Harbour board to clip its payroll. subsequently leading to 600 jobs being cut,and then casual labour was drafted
in to replace the workers they had paid off through the governments severance funding scheme..... better known as the
casualisation of Dock workers. Needless to say many families from the City were divided ,some like my Dad's best mate who
decided to cross the picket line ,an act so seemingly unforgivable that even to this day they have never spoken.   


I know this because I was the son of a Liverpool Docker,not a gobby little know all on a football forum who needs to shut the f*ck
up from time to time.

I can't think of anyone else in my lifetime who has been quite as divisive as Margaret Thatcher.

I'm the Son of a Miner and a survivor from Hillsborough - I've shed enough tears already on account of that woman so you will have to forgive me if I'm all cried out !

I am disappointed that the media have chosen to highlight the actions of a small minority of people throwing parties and not commended the restraint and respect that the vast majority of people have shown.

It makes me want to puke listening to the platitudes and sycophantic gushings of folks like David Cameron and others. You would think the woman had walked on water and solved the world's problems single handidly given the ***** comments about making Britain great again ! All this from the same Tories who became so agog at her increasingly erratic comments and behavior that they stuck the knife in and sent her on her way.It's a sad indictment on the Labour Party that they were so divided and discorded that they couldn't mount a serious campaign to see her tenure shortened and it was left to her own to oust her.

There's a mantra going around at the moment about respecting the dead whilst ignoring the fact that MT didn't respect the living when they didn't fit into her twisted view of the world ! Her treatment of the Miners, Nelson Mandela, Football fans, Women, The Belgrano, fellow MP's and anyone who got in her way didn't reek of respect to me.

Bob Marley sang a song which makes me think of Thatcher, its appropriate for me  ............. No Woman, No Cry. That is my epitath to Margaret Thatcher.

Dalglish » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:26 am wrote:I can't think of anyone else in my lifetime who has been quite as divisive as Margaret Thatcher.

I'm the Son of a Miner and a survivor from Hillsborough - I've shed enough tears already on account of that woman so you will have to forgive me if I'm all cried out !

I am disappointed that the media have chosen to highlight the actions of a small minority of people throwing parties and not commended the restraint and respect that the vast majority of people have shown.

It makes me want to puke listening to the platitudes and sycophantic gushings of folks like David Cameron and others. You would think the woman had walked on water and solved the world's problems single handidly given the ***** comments about making Britain great again ! All this from the same Tories who became so agog at her increasingly erratic comments and behavior that they stuck the knife in and sent her on her way.It's a sad indictment on the Labour Party that they were so divided and discorded that they couldn't mount a serious campaign to see her tenure shortened and it was left to her own to oust her.

There's a mantra going around at the moment about respecting the dead whilst ignoring the fact that MT didn't respect the living when they didn't fit into her twisted view of the world ! Her treatment of the Miners, Nelson Mandela, Football fans, Women, The Belgrano, fellow MP's and anyone who got in her way didn't reek of respect to me.

Bob Marley sang a song which makes me think of Thatcher, its appropriate for me  ............. No Woman, No Cry. That is my epitath to Margaret Thatcher.

Good post Daggers ,but you do know emotional retorts are not acceptable to some on this forum ,much better you post some article from the Telegraph
stating just how much worse we could have been if not for her many interventions for the common good.

oops double post