Liverpool FC Forum

People react and blame the people they think are responsible for any action they deem unfit towards the club. That action is currently sacking Kenny

I have read Ayre's synopsis.. re: winning cups vis-a-vis 4th place -CL etc.

I ask was this target made clear to KK?

Next... FSG are floundering around with Managers who have no proven credentials at the level they aspire to be and we want to be, lets cut to the chase, Pep G or who else?

Manc City have spent close on 300m to get to where they are today, what is our net spend?  and how many flops-after, have they paid top dollar for  before buidling a tiltle winning team?

What are the plans for the stadium. Ayre talks of a 'plan' have the Supporters C'tte been privy to this on our behalf? The stadium is as important as the team, for securing revenue streams which meet fair play rules and will support significant outlays for top players.

So.. we are moving upwards slowly in all places, grt sponsorship deals in place etc, however this next appt is the most important and as I tweeted Henry.. Pep it must be..!

We await, the next move !

zarababe » Sat May 19, 2012 11:31 am wrote:I ask was this target made clear to KK?

FSG was pretty clear at the start of the season that their goal was a top 4 finish.

lets cut to the chase, Pep G or who else?

I dont understand why so many seem to think Pep is an option. Get real, he is not coming here.

Tommy Smith on Liverpool FC: When money talks louder than the fans

YOU’D be a fool not to understand the natural concerns of Liverpool fans following the dismissal of Kenny Dalglish.


Whether in time it proves to be a clever decision or a stupid one, we’ll just have to wait and see now.

But many supporters are very worried, inevitably wondering if the owners really do know what they are doing in sacking a Liverpool manager after just 16 months in charge.

In my day, football club owners were nearly always local businessmen who’d come good. They were English people who had grown up with the game all around them to some degree.


The big fear now is that we have foreign owners, in our case Americans, who might believe they know best but who in reality don’t know quite as much about the game as they think.

It’s less than two years since FSG took over and that isn’t a long time to understand a sport they knew little or nothing about before buying the club.

But there’s no doubt we’ve been through a very poor season in terms of league results. And they suddenly feel they’ve seen enough.

I still believe Dalglish should have been given time to put things right but having played in America at the end of my career, I also know US sports owners are by nature ruthless and impatient.

They don’t hesitate to sack people if they are not delivering. And delivering means providing a return on their investment.

It’s all about money now and if winning equates to one and the same thing, there’s no room left for people to be given time to achieve.

If FSG are right and we go on to challenge at the top and return to the Champions League, we’ll all be delighted.

Ultimately everyone wants the same thing - but they clearly want it for two different reasons.




Read More http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/Liverpool ... z1vJabAFWp

mart » Sat May 19, 2012 11:37 am wrote:

zarababe » Sat May 19, 2012 11:31 am wrote:I ask was this target made clear to KK?

FSG was pretty clear at the start of the season that their goal was a top 4 finish.

lets cut to the chase, Pep G or who else?

I dont understand why so many seem to think Pep is an option. Get real, he is not coming here.

Guardiola made it very clear he's burnt out and needs a break from football. There is absolutely no way he's going to managing next year. He is out.

from ayre's statment"

“The Carling Cup and The FA Cup don’t generate the revenue and the success that is needed to keep investing. If you want to be successful, you have got to keep investing. People don’t want to hear that football is a business. They want to see us put lots of money into the football team and win lots of trophies and games.

“But you have got to have both. You have got to have continued progress in the league. If you don’t do well in the league and you don’t get into the Champions League, you are writing cheques from your own pocket, aren’t you? That is not a sustainable way going forward."

correct me if i'm missing something glaringly amiss here, but isn't he suggesting that cup success needs to happen alongside better league performance? alongside getting into the CL places? he's correct in saying that the cups don't generate as much revenue, and we need more revenue to compete. this football club will never turn its back on the romance and glory of the cups as the fans would just not allow it. but we have to be realistic and make sure that we don't fall even further behind where the real modern action is. this club was always as much about its european standing as it was about its domestic records and we don't want to lose that.

i think ayre and the owners are pragmatic enough to understand that. we all suspected they would be ruthless if it looked like we might underachieve and we were right. lets give them at least another season, as we would have done for kenny, to see if they get it right.

devaney » Sat May 19, 2012 7:20 am wrote:

RED BEERGOGGLES » Sat May 19, 2012 1:12 am wrote:Anyway I'm off to bed still well peeved with the incompetence and downright cowardice of FSG ... I'm surmising I will wake up in a similar state
of mind tomorrow . 

You desperately wanted Kenny back and whilst not as ecstatic as you it was good to see him back after the H & G years and the Hodgson debacle. We have got to accept however that it simply has not been a success. A Carling cup trophy that we tried desperately to throw away and a very embarrassing first 62 minutes against Chelsea in the FA Cup final will live in the memory for the wrong reasons. Our league performances on many occasions have been awful.The handling of the media has been embarrassing.

Your abuse towards FSG is totally unacceptable and ridiculous. After Liverpool's season if they hadn't taken any action they would have been accused by many supporters of incompetence and cowardice. If it was your business would you have been happy paying a manager in excess of £3m for such a lack lustre performance. If the season had ended on a high note it may have been different but that was not the case. Based on our league performance from the beginning of January to the end of the season we would have been relegated and that cannot be argued with. For some bizarre reason you seem happy to allow Kenny to continue? Why when his performance in the second half of the season was just as bad as what Hodgson achieved? I fully accept the frustrations of all this but abusing the owners is not the answer. FSG got us out of a mess and for that we should be grateful. If it was all about money they could have simply sold Torres and replaced him with a very cheap altenative. Instead they spend £57m on Carroll and Suarez plus a further £50m in the summer and you have the audacity to accuse them of incompetence and cowardice. Sorry lad but your talking rubbish.

nah i dont agree, for one, there is one reason and one reason alone the owners bought us and that was to make money, they didnt `save` us, they bought us at a bargain price, they just saw a business opportunity and it just so happened that because of the carry on with H&G when FSG bought the club they also happened to look like the 7th cavalry riding in to save the day, that was PR a bonus to them. 
they are baseball people not football people, they started watching the game 3 years ago, they wouldnt be nowhere near football if it wasnt the soulless, greedy, money soaked game it is today.
those things that we fans moan about are the very things that attracted them to the game.
tommy smith says in todays echo that the fans and the owners want the same thing but just for different reasons, but i dont think that`s 100% true, i think its 95% true.
unlike the fans their overwhelming priority is not finishing first, or winning anything to further add to the roll of honour at this club, ian ayre made that pretty clear yesterday, their one priority is finishing no lower than 4th. to them finishing 5th is a disaster, finishing 4th is complete and utter success.
dalglish`s league campaign was not good enough we all know that, but lets not forget that he didnt inherit a great squad or a team at the top of its game.
the club was in turmoil and there was a civil war going on between the fans, on one side you had the fans stamping their feet up and down and wondering why we werent winning the title or the CL and on the other were the fans who could see that the manager didnt stand a chance because the club was being dismantled around his ears. every season we had to make a £30m profit just to keep afloat, every penny of that profit went to the banks. you look at how many clubs made a £30m profit last season or even the season before that. the likes of chelsea havent made a profit since abramovitch got there and city will be the same now, yet benitez was expected to compete with them with his already inferior squad being bled dry?  some fans were living in la la land, the news that we were a day away from going under still didnt even change their opinions.
kenny took over us when we were 4 points off the relegation zone and our star striker had just bailed out, the club was in the $hit, yes he had money to spend but he never had a solid base to work from, it wasnt like he had a strong squad and he just added to it, when torres left the squad took a huge step backwards from the even the time hodgson was in charge.
i still dont buy that kenny signed those players either, suarez and carroll were too soon into his reign and i just think it`s too coincidental that kenny wanted to sign downing and henderson who just happened to top all the stats for crosses etc, nah i`m not having that and before anyone says dalglish said he chose them thats exactly the type of thing he would say especially if the signings were coming under criticism like they were.
the owners put a stats based DoF in on the recommendation of  billy `moneyball` beane, they mention that they are going to recruit with a different philosophy and then they give a temporary manager 100m and say sign who you want? nah
the owners said kenny went because they wanted progress, well we hadnt appeared in a domestic cup final for 6 years, in kenny`s first full season he got to 2 of them, i`d call that progress.
we finished 8th but our 2 previous seasons we`d finished 6th and 7th, not great but not exactly finishing 8th after finishing 1st and 2nd for years.
super tankers like liverpool and united take a long time to turn around and i believe kenny was doing that, he had to cope with injuries to key players and suspensions to key players, he even got hung out to dry by the owners over the suarez thing for just backing his player and club.
maybe kenny should have took a leaf out of ian `the business side is going great` ayre and done a pontius pilate and hung suarez out to dry but that would have been against everything he has ever stood for, when the going gets tough he stands and fights, that was one battle he was never going to win but he wasnt going to run away like others in the club did and let the wolves of the press savage luis.
lets see how these new DoF`s and manager cope, oh and please no excuses like injuries or players need time to settle or anything like that, they dont wash anymore

andy_g » Sat May 19, 2012 11:49 am wrote:from ayre's statment"

“The Carling Cup and The FA Cup don’t generate the revenue and the success that is needed to keep investing. If you want to be successful, you have got to keep investing. People don’t want to hear that football is a business. They want to see us put lots of money into the football team and win lots of trophies and games.

“But you have got to have both. You have got to have continued progress in the league. If you don’t do well in the league and you don’t get into the Champions League, you are writing cheques from your own pocket, aren’t you? That is not a sustainable way going forward."

correct me if i'm missing something glaringly amiss here, but isn't he suggesting that cup success needs to happen alongside better league performance? alongside getting into the CL places? he's correct in saying that the cups don't generate as much revenue, and we need more revenue to compete. this football club will never turn its back on the romance and glory of the cups as the fans would just not allow it. but we have to be realistic and make sure that we don't fall even further behind where the real modern action is. this club was always as much about its european standing as it was about its domestic records and we don't want to lose that.

i think ayre and the owners are pragmatic enough to understand that. we all suspected they would be ruthless if it looked like we might underachieve and we were right. lets give them at least another season, as we would have done for kenny, to see if they get it right.

Good point Andy, I'll be honest I have my doubts as them being good owners but I won't judge them until I see a clear picture of their work. However, sacking Kenny was sort of a knee jerk from their part, even though we were appalling in the league. I wonder if the owners are highering  their expectation, do they want to fulfill their goals and expectations quickly or will it give it sometime? To me it looks like they are looking for a quick way through 4th place, hence sacking Kenny. Now the new manager must be backed heavily in the transfer market to achieve 4th place, even if he is the best coach in the world right now. Our team is 2 seasons away to realistically get a CL spot, so of FSG are going to do little in terms of investment then they will find themselves dissapointed at the end of next season.

FSG gave it a go with the old guard by allowing people to stay in jobs and the fans to
have that feel good factor by appointing Dalglish.

I guess their only regret will be they didnt just wade in from the off and implement their
own ideas and they have lost a year by being tentative and people pleasing to win favour.

Anyway they have soon put that right now by dismantling the whole thing and re building
with their own vision for the club.

To be honest the fans have had their pick and now its the owners turn so we will have to
show a bit of faith back even if we dont care for some of their decisions initially.

Everything they are doing is an attempt to improve this football club and if we are always
going to fight people over everything we will eventually destroy the things ourselves if we
are not careful.

andy_g » Sat May 19, 2012 11:49 am wrote:from ayre's statment"

“The Carling Cup and The FA Cup don’t generate the revenue and the success that is needed to keep investing. If you want to be successful, you have got to keep investing. People don’t want to hear that football is a business. They want to see us put lots of money into the football team and win lots of trophies and games.

“But you have got to have both. You have got to have continued progress in the league. If you don’t do well in the league and you don’t get into the Champions League, you are writing cheques from your own pocket, aren’t you? That is not a sustainable way going forward."

correct me if i'm missing something glaringly amiss here, but isn't he suggesting that cup success needs to happen alongside better league performance? alongside getting into the CL places? he's correct in saying that the cups don't generate as much revenue, and we need more revenue to compete. this football club will never turn its back on the romance and glory of the cups as the fans would just not allow it. but we have to be realistic and make sure that we don't fall even further behind where the real modern action is. this club was always as much about its european standing as it was about its domestic records and we don't want to lose that.

i think ayre and the owners are pragmatic enough to understand that. we all suspected they would be ruthless if it looked like we might underachieve and we were right. lets give them at least another season, as we would have done for kenny, to see if they get it right.

their actions have spoke louder than words, kenny got to the final of both domestic cup competitions (which is some achievement) but was sacked because of the league form. the owners  have already said that even if we would have won the f.a cup kenny would still have still gone.
if he would have got 4th but lost in the first round of the cups he`d still be in a job, so in other words why f**k around trying to win the cups? whats the point? what has a manager got to gain by playing his top players in the cup competitions? quite obviously winning the 2 of them doesnt guarentee you your job
the message to the manager is get into the CL, nothing else matters.

I think people are reading into these comments too much. Had Kenny won the FA Cup maybe it would have been a different matter but come on the carling cup is 1 step up from the tango cup. FSG want us to get back in the CL and that means 4th place. TBH If we had gotten the FA Cup it would have just been papering over the cracks. We have been Sh*t this season and deserve where we finished.

parchpea » Sat May 19, 2012 3:04 pm wrote:FSG gave it a go with the old guard by allowing people to stay in jobs and the fans to
have that feel good factor by appointing Dalglish.

I guess their only regret will be they didnt just wade in from the off and implement their
own ideas and they have lost a year by being tentative and people pleasing to win favour.

Anyway they have soon put that right now by dismantling the whole thing and re building
with their own vision for the club.

To be honest the fans have had their pick and now its the owners turn so we will have to
show a bit of faith back even if we dont care for some of their decisions initially.

Everything they are doing is an attempt to improve this football club and if we are always
going to fight people over everything we will eventually destroy the things ourselves if we
are not careful.

they appointed the first DoF in our history mate, on the say so of a baseball stats guru, that didnt work out if you remember.
they havent got a clue about footy, thats why they are employing a management company for advice and thats why they ask bloggers for advice.
stop trying to make out this is part of some masterplan

7th, 7th and 8th in the last three seasons, an ugly pattern is starting to emerge - mediocre, mid-table has been's.

FSG's decision is going to be a pivotal one for the future of this club. They HAVE to get this right or we WILL sink further into the abyss.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Sat May 19, 2012 3:17 pm wrote:

parchpea » Sat May 19, 2012 3:04 pm wrote:FSG gave it a go with the old guard by allowing people to stay in jobs and the fans to
have that feel good factor by appointing Dalglish.

I guess their only regret will be they didnt just wade in from the off and implement their
own ideas and they have lost a year by being tentative and people pleasing to win favour.

Anyway they have soon put that right now by dismantling the whole thing and re building
with their own vision for the club.

To be honest the fans have had their pick and now its the owners turn so we will have to
show a bit of faith back even if we dont care for some of their decisions initially.

Everything they are doing is an attempt to improve this football club and if we are always
going to fight people over everything we will eventually destroy the things ourselves if we
are not careful.

they appointed the first DoF in our history mate, on the say so of a baseball stats guru, that didnt work out if you remember.
they havent got a clue about footy, thats why they are employing a management company for advice and thats why they ask bloggers for advice.
stop trying to make out this is part of some masterplan

Perhaps you should wait till the next season is over before making presumptions about what they can or cannot do.