Liverpool FC Forum

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:37 pm wrote:
they want to assess their own performance first, asking a baseball guru for his input on who they should appoint to run one of the biggest football clubs in the world doesnt seem the smartest move. DoF`s always end up falling out with managers and comoli himself had fall outs at st. ettiene and spurs so no doubt at some point in the future we`ll give the press something else to laugh about as that inevitable argument gets played out in public.

This is all true, but it doesn't take the shine off Kenny's role in our current mess. He is the one who picks the team, he is the one who will have had a massive input as to we signed and sold/loaned out in the summer, he's the one who deals the managerial aspects of the club, not Comolli and not the Americans. Is it Comolli's fault that this year we've won just two League matches? Is it the Americans fault that Kenny doesn't seem to have a Plan B when Plan A goes to the dogs? Is it that Baseball Guru's fault that Kenny doesn't seem to know how to get the best out of his summer arrivals? Come on, stop deflecting things away from Kenny. Kenny and Clark along with the players are responsible for our poor league performance this season and they all should be held accountable for it.

Boxscarf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:49 am wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:37 pm wrote:
they want to assess their own performance first, asking a baseball guru for his input on who they should appoint to run one of the biggest football clubs in the world doesnt seem the smartest move. DoF`s always end up falling out with managers and comoli himself had fall outs at st. ettiene and spurs so no doubt at some point in the future we`ll give the press something else to laugh about as that inevitable argument gets played out in public.

This is all true, but it doesn't take the shine off Kenny's role in our current mess. He is the one who picks the team, he is the one who will have had a massive input as to we signed and sold/loaned out in the summer, he's the one who deals the managerial aspects of the club, not Comolli and not the Americans. Is it Comolli's fault that this year we've won just two League matches? Is it the Americans fault that Kenny doesn't seem to have a Plan B when Plan A goes to the dogs? Is it that Baseball Guru's fault that Kenny doesn't seem to know how to get the best out of his summer arrivals? Come on, stop deflecting things away from Kenny. Kenny and Clark along with the players are responsible for our poor league performance this season and they all should be held accountable for it.

i have never said that kenny hasnt made mistakes this season, i`m saying everyone at the club has made them, including the owners imo.
what other huge football club would ask a baseball guru for his opinion on who should run it? and why a baseball guru? why not ask a ice hockey expert or a basketball expert? we know why the owners chose to ask beane because they believed in his stats based recruitment philosophy and wanted someone running the football side of the club who could put the theory into practise.
there are newspaper articles with comoli explaining how the likes of henderson and downing were signed because of their impressive stats and kenny was interim manager for just a frigging fortnight before carroll and suarez arrived but obviously the signings are all kennys fault even though comoli`s and the owners fingerprints are all over our transfers.
when the media storm over suarez reached a frenzy kenny fell on his sword for the good of the club, kenny crawling on his knee`s to ferguson was exactly the type of humiliating scene the press wanted, this was the man who told the editor of the s*n where to go 30 years ago, this was the man who told ferguson where to go to his face live on national telly during a bust up in the tunnel 30 years ago, this was the manager who instead of treating sky reporters with the type of reverence usually reserved for gods of the ancient world at press conferences which they expect he does the opposite , he give`s them stick about women linesmen and the like, when sky camera`s stood outside melwood waiting for kenny to stop and wind his window down he used to drive right past no doubt hoping it would start pi$$ing down on them, all dalglish did throughout the whole farce was stand by his player just like ferguson stood by schmeichel years earlier but one proud scot had to get on his hands and knee`s and beg forgiveness and the other didnt because of the decisions made above them.
once dalglish offered the grovelling apology the story was over, that`s all the press wanted, our figurehead, the champion of our cause, the spiritual leader of a club that carry`s the name of the city that regularly put two fingers up to the establishment in this country on his knee`s.
the story ended at that moment, the press had got their pound of flesh.
liverpool fans in the future will have to read about kenny grovelling in the history books, imagine if we had to read about bill shankly grovelling to the media?
all because their was no leadership at the time.
i still cant believe the owners let dalglish make that statement, the man that went to countless fans funerals including 4 in one day made to crawl to the media and ferguson for defending the club and a player in public? because he had a few crossed words with a sky reporter?
there should have been an apology on behalf of the whole club not from kenny. the people at the top showed little knowledge of our history and how important a figurehead kenny is to the club.
there have been mistakes made from the top to the bottom of the club this season but some people want this to be the suarez thing all over again, kenny to carry the can on his own for everything.
yes kenny has made mistakes this season but who at the club hasnt?

D___C wrote:Champions League Qualifying 3rd round 2nd Leg  27/08/2008  Standard Liege  Home  W  1-0  Kuyt (117). Liverpool win 1-0 on aggregate and qualify for group stage (ended up getting to the quarters)

Dirk repaid his fee with that goal alone, not to mention the many crucial goals over the years (the recent cup final being the latest example).

At a time when we have forked out over 80 million on 4 midtable level british players who have made 116 appearances and contributed a total of 6 goals....its odd to pick fault with a guy who has contributed more to the club than the 4 combined ever will, and has more than paid back his fee... we wont get half of what we paid for the 4.

so if we get to the final and andy carroll scores the winner then will that justify his fee for you? will it also make him a better player?.i think not.
carroll is no rvp but then again neither is dirk and should carroll get the same time along with appearances then im sure he could weigh in with just as many important goals as kuyt has.
how do you know that any of the evil 4 wont equally go on and someday justify their fee's also?.they are young and less than a year into their contracts where as dirk is on his second, time isnt on his side and where as i believe it would be rash to flog carroll,hendo and downing so soon and wait at least another season to see if they can mentally up their game before deciding whether to get rid.dirk on the other hand is on his second contract and in his 30's and isnt vital to the team so it makes sense to sell him along with the few other players who arent like maxi,aqua and cole.for what that 4 would fetch we wouldnt have to put a lot to make up the difference for a quality player like hazard or lorrente without any negative impact on the 1st team.
no one is having a pop at dirk here as i said earlier i dont rate him as a great footballer but recognise the effort and commitment he has given and for that he will always have my respect ,but i feel its his time to move on and we replace him with something better.he might have contributed more than carroll,hendo,adam and downing but he's had the guts of 5 years more than the rest to do it in.lets wait and see how the new signings perform over the duration of theirs.

whats odd is a person who maintains they are a fan but constantly troll these boards panning the same 4 players and the manager in every post.

Talk about melodramatic! Where did Kenny crawl on his knees begging Ferguson for forgiveness? Kenny and the club stood firmly (and rightly so) in Suarez's corner, but then chose not to appeal against the eight game suspension of Luis Suarez, that's where this club went wrong, it came across as an acceptance of guilt. If this club really wanted to stand by its player then it should have appealed against the decision. That's my only gripe in the whole fiasco is that Liverpool football club as per usual talk a good fight, but when it comes to the crunch and a fight is needed, it backs down and cowers in the corner. That's not Kenny's fault, Kenny had nothing to apologise for and as far as I am concerned, I have not read or heard about Kenny looking weak, if anything Kenny looked as strong and as stubborn as an Ox.

Everyone at the club has made mistakes, but I can see why the club signed all of the players it has signed, though I didn't agree with half of them. All players who arrived at our club since FSG arrived here have come with glowing reputations. The results and performances this season are the responsibilty of Kenny, Clark, the rest of the staff and the players. Kenny is the main figurehead as manager, so he will take the flak for any poor performances and results. That's just a fact of life, but deflecting responsibility away from the manager and diverting it to some baseball guru and some Frenchman at the club is just risible and cannot be taken seriously whatsoever.

Boxscarf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:43 am wrote:Talk about melodramatic! Where did Kenny crawl on his knees begging Ferguson for forgiveness? Kenny and the club stood firmly (and rightly so) in Suarez's corner, but then chose not to appeal against the eight game suspension of Luis Suarez, that's where this club went wrong, it came across as an acceptance of guilt. If this club really wanted to stand by its player then it should have appealed against the decision. That's my only gripe in the whole fiasco is that Liverpool football club as per usual talk a good fight, but when it comes to the crunch and a fight is needed, it backs down and cowers in the corner. That's not Kenny's fault, Kenny had nothing to apologise for and as far as I am concerned, I have not read or heard about Kenny looking weak, if anything Kenny looked as strong and as stubborn as an Ox.

Everyone at the club has made mistakes, but I can see why the club signed all of the players it has signed, though I didn't agree with half of them. All players who arrived at our club since FSG arrived here have come with glowing reputations. The results and performances this season are the responsibilty of Kenny, Clark, the rest of the staff and the players. Kenny is the main figurehead as manager, so he will take the flak for any poor performances and results. That's just a fact of life, but deflecting responsibility away from the manager and diverting it to some baseball guru and some Frenchman at the club is just risible and cannot be taken seriously whatsoever.

but thats down to the owners! remember that game when the players wore the t-shirts in support of suarez and the club released that belligerent, almost churchillian press statement telling the world to get f**ked?  you cant tell me over something as serious as racism that the owners werent in on that statement or at the very least knew about the strong stance we were taking.
that was the moment when the press went ape$hit, before that game it was a one mans word against another run of the mill story but after that the worlds press and media rounded on the club like a pack of hyena`s until we had to offer a grovelling apology.
that situation should have been played down not cranked up, it`s understandable that the players and staff should want to come out fighting in defence of their mate but senior management are there to make strategic decisions with cool heads, they are the ones that went to the likes of oxford, cambridge, harvard and yale, they are the ones that went to university to study business and management. they should have seen how the situation could play out.
the way our senior management handled the suarez / evra bust up was farcical.
manchester united released a statement saying they didnt believe suarez was a racist, evra released a statement saying he didnt believe suarez was a racist and the f.a did suarez for using an inappropiate remark not for racism, but somehow our mangement and p.r department managed to make such a pigs breakfast of the situation that they didnt get that message out and instead they managed to turn the whole episode into the biggest flame war about racism in sport in this country since the early 80`s.
as i said dalglish had made mistakes but mistakes have been made at all levels throughout the club, the best the club can do now is try to salvage the season with a strong finish in the league and maybe another trophy and then regroup in the summer. if we win the f.a cup and the league cup in one season despite the $*i*e thats gone on, in 10 years time people will look back at it as a successfull campaign, thats what the manager and players should be concentrating on now.

This is far too emotionally charged for me to handle, it's like trying to break up with a girl who threatens to throw herself off Beachy head if you get with her best friend Charlotte Huntington-Jones. None of what you say detracts away from what has been a poor managerial performance from Dalglish this season. You can say that a number of outside forces have affected our performances and ultimately our results, but that doesn't detract from Kenny's role in our downfall this season, because he's played a major role. You might not like to admit that, that's fine, but it's the truth. Kenny for all his worth still doesn't know what his best formation is, he doesn't know how to utilise his summer signings effectively, he doesn't know what his best starting eleven is and when Plan A is being shot down in flames, he stands there looking devoid of any emotion and just seems to watch the match pass him by. He needs to take a long hard look at himself over the summer and I dare say his written debrief to FSG will do just that.

Boxscarf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:27 pm wrote:This is far too emotionally charged for me to handle, it's like trying to break up with a girl who threatens to throw herself off Beachy head if you get with her best friend Charlotte Huntington-Jones. None of what you say detracts away from what has been a poor managerial performance from Dalglish this season. You can say that a number of outside forces have affected our performances and ultimately our results, but that doesn't detract from Kenny's role in our downfall this season, because he's played a major role. You might not like to admit that, that's fine, but it's the truth. Kenny for all his worth still doesn't know what his best formation is, he doesn't know how to utilise his summer signings effectively, he doesn't know what his best starting eleven is and when Plan A is being shot down in flames, he stands there looking devoid of any emotion and just seems to watch the match pass him by. He needs to take a long hard look at himself over the summer and I dare say his written debrief to FSG will do just that.

read my post again, i mention a few times that dalglish has made mistakes but all`s i`m saying is that he`s not the only one.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:52 pm wrote:
read my post again, i mention a few times that dalglish has made mistakes but all`s i`m saying is that he`s not the only one.

It's got nothing to do with this thread though has it? FSG have every right to demand an explanation from Kenny. They invested £100m into the playing squad and we're sat in 8th in the league, it's just not good enough and Kenny will be the first person to admit this. You're trying to deflect as much accountability away from Kenny as you can and that's not acceptable to me, not acceptable at all.

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:52 pm wrote:

Boxscarf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:27 pm wrote:This is far too emotionally charged for me to handle, it's like trying to break up with a girl who threatens to throw herself off Beachy head if you get with her best friend Charlotte Huntington-Jones. None of what you say detracts away from what has been a poor managerial performance from Dalglish this season. You can say that a number of outside forces have affected our performances and ultimately our results, but that doesn't detract from Kenny's role in our downfall this season, because he's played a major role. You might not like to admit that, that's fine, but it's the truth. Kenny for all his worth still doesn't know what his best formation is, he doesn't know how to utilise his summer signings effectively, he doesn't know what his best starting eleven is and when Plan A is being shot down in flames, he stands there looking devoid of any emotion and just seems to watch the match pass him by. He needs to take a long hard look at himself over the summer and I dare say his written debrief to FSG will do just that.

read my post again, i mention a few times that dalglish has made mistakes but all`s i`m saying is that he`s not the only one.

New owners, new manager, new players.
It was always going to be a bumpy ride and in hindsight our expectations were far too high. We will look back on this season as an eye opener and it has certainly been eventful. There have been some serious highs and some dreadful lows, but KK is not the only one whos made mistakes. Thats what happens in companies or groups or teams. They all depend on each other and are strongest when they all work together.
Unity is strength.

We have done unity and look where its got us this year so I propose mutiny. Lets do that for a change
and see if it works. No more Mr Nice guy 

Boxscarf » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:10 pm wrote:

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:52 pm wrote:
read my post again, i mention a few times that dalglish has made mistakes but all`s i`m saying is that he`s not the only one.

It's got nothing to do with this thread though has it? FSG have every right to demand an explanation from Kenny. They invested £100m into the playing squad and we're sat in 8th in the league, it's just not good enough and Kenny will be the first person to admit this. You're trying to deflect as much accountability away from Kenny as you can and that's not acceptable to me, not acceptable at all.

i am pointing out what has happened behind the scene`s, things like having the first DoF in our 120 year history, having owners who obviously have their own idea`s on player recruitment, having a p.r department that makes a right pigs breakfast out of a news story and turns it into the biggest flame war over race in sport in this country for over 30 years, losing your most consistent player for practically the whole season, losing the club captain and talisman for the first half of the season, losing your best player for 9 games in the middle of the season because of bans over 2 seperate incidents, having a powerful figure like alex ferguson saying that your best player is a diver and should never play for your club again, having to apologize to the media because of the pr departments misshandling of the suarez situation.......they are not excuses, those things happened, you may want to blame everything that has gone wrong this season on dalglish thats up to you, i try to look at the big picture like i have always done.

parchpea » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:56 pm wrote:We have done unity and look where its got us this year so I propose mutiny. Lets do that for a change
and see if it works. No more Mr Nice guy 

Unite is an anagram of untie...

ycsatbjywtbiastkamb » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:09 pm wrote:
i am pointing out what has happened behind the scene`s, things like having the first DoF in our 120 year history, having owners who obviously have their own idea`s on player recruitment, having a p.r department that makes a right pigs breakfast out of a news story and turns it into the biggest flame war over race in sport in this country for over 30 years, losing your most consistent player for practically the whole season, losing the club captain and talisman for the first half of the season, losing your best player for 9 games in the middle of the season because of bans over 2 seperate incidents, having a powerful figure like alex ferguson saying that your best player is a diver and should never play for your club again, having to apologize to the media because of the pr departments misshandling of the suarez situation.......they are not excuses, those things happened, you may want to blame everything that has gone wrong this season on dalglish thats up to you, i try to look at the big picture like i have always done.

Again, these things have no doubt had some knock on effect to our performances and results, but the fact remains that results count, football is a result driven business, the players aren't doing their jobs properly on the pitch, we're not winning matches and Kenny is responsible for his players failing and he is rightly being held to account. You can use the factors you have used to detract the accountability away from Kenny if you so wish, but all you are doing is throwing a smokescreen in the way and ultimately people can see through the smoke.

Its patently obvious (albeit from those who have their respective fingers lodged in their ears ) that Dalglish is here for the long term ,John Henry is a
shrewd and tactical man and his meetings with SOS to gauge their input when he first succeeded the two cretins spoke volumes about the man's
meticulous preparations for the new season .

John Henry and his investors will not  be  happy bunnies ,Liverpool were supposed to glide along like a well oiled machine this season ,but the Luis Suarez
fiasco and the circus that ensued was not something they could have planned for .

If Kenny delivers them the FA cup then it will provide valid proof that the team is capable of sustaining a challenge for trophies next season ,and with a
few tweaks ,and the return of a fully fit squad and ( LUCAS) plus some quality additions ,maybe we can return to playing the sweet football
we played earlier in the season only this time not be haunted by our unparalleled  profligacy in front of goal .

To summarise ,FSG will not risk alienating the paying fans that are the lifesblood of this great club ,and to show a lack of faith in Dalglish
would be doing precisely that ..... Kenneth Dalglish has a point to prove and he's not about to slink off like some shithouse rat before
that's accomplished .

FSG are ruthless businessmen, business is all about performances and results, football is a results driven business. They'll assess the situation with a clear and pragmatic view point and they'll make their decision on whether or not Dalglish is the right man for the job. There are grounds for saying yes, he's the right man for the job and there are grounds for saying he isn't. However one thing cannot be disputed is that FSG minimum expectation of Champions League qualification has not been met and usually if objectives aren't met then explanations are needed, and ruthless decisions are made to wield the right results in the future. If they want Dalglish to remain as manager then they'll need to back him, if they sack him and bring someone else in, then they'll have to back him and give him the time to insert his mark on the team.