Liverpool FC Forum

by **Benny The Noon** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:08 pm

I remember a time when you didnt even hear from the owners for years - as Shanks said - they are only there to sign the cheques.

I am truely outstanded at people reacting to every single little snippet they read in the media ! Its truely embarressing.

I cant believe some are questioning them ?!!? They saved our club FFS

by **devaney** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:27 pm

woof woof ! wrote:Not sure why some are getting their knickers in a twist over the owners part in this.

I thought that they showed great respect and faith in Kenny and Co and believed they had the ability deal with "stuff" .

The fact that the hierarchy in situ at Anfield made a dogs breakfast of the whole affair must have been as alarming to John Henry as it was to (some of) us.

They took far too long to realise the damage that was being done. They only took action as a result of Standard Charters concerns that were addressed to them and not Kenny or Ian Ayres.

There good people but they are not beyond criticism.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:11 am

Benny The Noon wrote:I remember a time when you didnt even hear from the owners for years - as Shanks said - they are only there to sign the cheques.

I am truely outstanded at people reacting to every single little snippet they read in the media ! Its truely embarressing.

I cant believe some are questioning them ?!!? They saved our club FFS

just because you didnt hear from the likes of sir john smith and peter robinson didnt mean they werent doing anything behind the scene`s.
could you imagine the players wearing those t-shirt`s and the club releasing such a bold statement when they were in charge?
me neither.
smith and robinson had to deal with countries behind the iron curtain at the height of the cold war and all sorts but because they did it well you never noticed them.
anyway lets stop talking about it, the whole pigs breakfast of a situation is just too gutting to discuss, especially the bit where kenny basically had to grovel to ferguson.
kenny is a proud man, he`s probably absolutely devastated that he`s had to get on his knee`s and grovel infront of that :censored:

.
ferguson probably enjoyed that more than some of his title wins the :censored:

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:40 am

maguskwt wrote:
eds wrote:
7_Kewell wrote:i would like someone to tell us what the owners were suppose to say?

BACK IN OCTOBER, WHEN THIS BROKE, THEY SHOULD HAVE STATED THE FOLLOWING:

That they, Luis Suarez, Kenny Dalglish and Liverpool Football club stand against racism in any shape or form.

This includes the vile racist attack that Luis Suarez came under when provoked by Patrice Evra. To make matters worse it appears that Patrice Evra has made unfounded and untruthful allegations about Luis Suarez.

Something which Liverpool Football Club will set to resolve with the FA in the next couple of weeks. If the matter is not clarified then Liverpool Football Club will be seeking defamation charges be brought against Patrice Evra and Manchester United.

Hind sight is 20/20

NO. imo this isn't neccesarily a lack of action from the owners.

That above paragraph could have still been released to the media - BY OUR VERY OWN IAN AYRE. He is our MD and based in the UK not the U.S.

Why ca't the MD or the Club itself release such a statement?

It doesn't have to come from the owners.

I think Ian Ayre has more to answer for than the owners in this case. After all he is here and can see what's happening in our press first hand.

by **devaney** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:50 am

I'm am not suggesting that the owners should have been totally visible throughout this debacle. They employ people for that purpose. My complaint is either their lack of guidance or their incompetent guidance has not helped. They have not come out of this smelling of roses! Ian Ayres falls into the same category.

I have now read a considerable amount of the 115 page Suarez Evra report and I have the utmost sympathy for Luis Suarez. Ferguson was determined to get Evra in front of the referee after the game and get everything fully documented for legal purposes. Ferguson has had experience of theses situations back in 1997 with Peter Schmeichel when he was accused by Ian Wright of making racist remarks.Ferguson defended Schmeichel to the hilt! Ferguson in my opinion recognised the potential damage that he could do to Suarez and Liverpool FC and made sure that he stirred up as much trouble as possible by going into the referees office claiming that Suarez had called Evra a nigger five times which later was quoted as ten times during an interview by Evra on Canal+ television. The word nigger was never actually used and the report confirms this and Evra accepts his understanding of the translation was incorrect. The damage however was done and had made worldwide press. It is no wonder the club reacted in the way that they did feeling rightfully aggrieved at the way Suarez and the club were being accused of being racists. Considerably more thought should have been given to the clubs response and professional advice should have been obtained. According to Suarez he used the word negro once which can have several connotations.It can in certain countries such as Uruguay be used in both a friendly and insulting way. The FA appointed commission decided that the latter applied base purely on Evra's evidence. WOULD YOU SHAKE EVRA'S HAND? Game set and match to Ferguson,Evra and Manchester United.

by **lakes10** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:52 am

I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

by **devaney** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:11 am

lakes10 wrote:I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

Lakes mate let's not overdo the grovelling. The new owners are ok and Henry's wife certainly improves the directors box! FSG waited until the very last minute to buy us for the absolute bottom book price of £300m. Good luck to them they did very well especially when Torres alone was worth £50m! Unlike you though I'm not going to hold out the hand of gratitude for ever. They now have a big job to do and they are not beyond criticism. They are businessmen not saviours. We all said a lot of complimentary things about H & G before the world went into recession which caused H & G untold problems and the rest is history.

by **lakes10** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:42 am

devaney wrote:Lakes mate let's not overdo the grovelling. The new owners are ok and Henry's wife certainly improves the directors box! FSG waited until the very last minute to buy us for the absolute bottom book price of £300m. Good luck to them they did very well especially when Torres alone was worth £50m! Unlike you though I'm not going to hold out the hand of gratitude for ever. They now have a big job to do and they are not beyond criticism. They are businessmen not saviours. We all said a lot of complimentary things about H & G before the world went into recession which caused H & G untold problems and the rest is history.

we will never know what could have happend under G&H if the worlds money had not hit bad times but it did happend and the club almost got taken to the cleaners. yes the new owners saved us, we needed to be saved.

yes they need to put money into the club but i dont feel they need to talk to the press every 5 mins about how the club is run or on matters withing the club.

i dont care if they sell us in a years time for profit aslong as it to the right buyer.

time has long gone when clubs where seem as something to keep in the family.

by **Igor Zidane** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:04 pm

lakes10 wrote:I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

Your right lakes, but it doesn't mean these owners are immune from critisism .

by **maypaxvobiscum** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:12 pm

Igor Zidane wrote:
lakes10 wrote:I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

Your right lakes, but it doesn't mean these owners are immune from critisism .

neither are Kenny and the management in UK, Igor. he should have been smart enough to realize that he should be talking with his brains, instead of his heart. some people are capable of saying the dumbest things in the heat of the moment. what the club should have done is simply refuse to allow the media to ask any questions on the Suarez issue, hence Kenny would have avoided being bombarded with question after question which got him mad. that was the first thing the club did wrong.

this whole debacle has been an absolute PR disaster and it's very disappointing. in a recent match between Man City and Villa, the Vila mascot refused to shake the hands of the City mascot. this is just another opportunity for the press to pour some heat on Suarez claiming he is a bad influence, etc etc.

when Liverpool came out with such a strong response to the 8 match ban, i was expecting an appeal. so when we decided not to appeal, i felt that the purpose of releasing such a strong statement only to back down is ridiculous, and made us look very fickle. i was actually pretty supportive of such a strong statement, but on hindsight, i realize it was poor and posters such as Andy G, DD and 7_Kewell were correct in their assessment of it.

i think generally, the owners was probably under the impression that whatever the team in Liverpool were doing, they had control over it and were capable enough, hence they took the back seat. they didn't think it would escalate to such heights where even the sponsors get involved. and like it or not, in today's age, sponsorship is a very big deal. i do like the manner in which FSG runs the club though, by rarely ever being in the public eye, unlike their predecessors. i really can't find a reason to blame the owners based in America for this, when it was the management team is Liverpool who should have been competent enough to handle the press.

all in all, the end result of this is that we have been made to look silly, in our efforts to protect Suarez. the club could have just gone along the lines of it was an innocent misunderstanding because Suarez used a word acceptable in his culture and did not think it would provoke such a response here. that kind of statement would have at least garnered some sympathy and understanding, after all Suarez is from a different culture. it also shows humility on our part. but for me, the worse part of it is that Fergie is happy.

by **metalhead** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:17 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
lakes10 wrote:I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

Your right lakes, but it doesn't mean these owners are immune from critisism .

neither are Kenny and the management in UK, Igor. he should have been smart enough to realize that he should be talking with his brains, instead of his heart. some people are capable of saying the dumbest things in the heat of the moment. what the club should have done is simply refuse to allow the media to ask any questions on the Suarez issue, hence Kenny would have avoided being bombarded with question after question which got him mad. that was the first thing the club did wrong.

this whole debacle has been an absolute PR disaster and it's very disappointing. in a recent match between Man City and Villa, the Vila mascot refused to shake the hands of the City mascot. this is just another opportunity for the press to pour some heat on Suarez claiming he is a bad influence, etc etc.

when Liverpool came out with such a strong response to the 8 match ban, i was expecting an appeal. so when we decided not to appeal, i felt that the purpose of releasing such a strong statement only to back down is ridiculous, and made us look very fickle. i was actually pretty supportive of such a strong statement, but on hindsight, i realize it was poor and posters such as Andy G, DD and 7_Kewell were correct in their assessment of it.

i think generally, the owners was probably under the impression that whatever the team in Liverpool were doing, they had control over it and were capable enough, hence they took the back seat. they didn't think it would escalate to such heights where even the sponsors get involved. and like it or not, in today's age, sponsorship is a very big deal. i do like the manner in which FSG runs the club though, by rarely ever being in the public eye, unlike their predecessors. i really can't find a reason to blame the owners based in America for this, when it was the management team is Liverpool who should have been competent enough to handle the press.

all in all, the end result of this is that we have been made to look silly, in our efforts to protect Suarez. the club could have just gone along the lines of it was an innocent misunderstanding because Suarez used a word acceptable in his culture and did not think it would provoke such a response here. that kind of statement would have at least garnered some sympathy and understanding, after all Suarez is from a different culture. it also shows humility on our part. but for me, the worse part of it is that Fergie is happy.

Well said maxi! If the Club did end up appealing the verdict their initial statement would have made sense and the Club would have explained their reasons for appealing to the media. Its been a disaster since we decided not to appeal!

by **metalhead** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:23 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:I remember a time when you didnt even hear from the owners for years - as Shanks said - they are only there to sign the cheques.

I am truely outstanded at people reacting to every single little snippet they read in the media ! Its truely embarressing.

I cant believe some are questioning them ?!!? They saved our club FFS

Mate, this isn't the 60s or the 70s anymore, football have changed and evolved, the owners now have more say in the club's affair because without them knowing whats happening they won't sign the cheques.

I agree though, I think some fans need to get some perspective on things regarding NESV/FSG, they saved us from brink of administration, dipped into their pockets for player investment and got us a record breaking shirt sponsor. I understand where fans are coming from that they have been let down by the owners in this whole affair, and I'm one of them, it happens, Henry, Ayre and Warner are human and mistakes happen.

by **yckatbjywtbiastkamb** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:48 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
lakes10 wrote:I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

Your right lakes, but it doesn't mean these owners are immune from critisism .

neither are Kenny and the management in UK, Igor. he should have been smart enough to realize that he should be talking with his brains, instead of his heart. some people are capable of saying the dumbest things in the heat of the moment. what the club should have done is simply refuse to allow the media to ask any questions on the Suarez issue, hence Kenny would have avoided being bombarded with question after question which got him mad. that was the first thing the club did wrong.

this whole debacle has been an absolute PR disaster and it's very disappointing. in a recent match between Man City and Villa, the Vila mascot refused to shake the hands of the City mascot. this is just another opportunity for the press to pour some heat on Suarez claiming he is a bad influence, etc etc.

when Liverpool came out with such a strong response to the 8 match ban, i was expecting an appeal. so when we decided not to appeal, i felt that the purpose of releasing such a strong statement only to back down is ridiculous, and made us look very fickle. i was actually pretty supportive of such a strong statement, but on hindsight, i realize it was poor and posters such as Andy G, DD and 7_Kewell were correct in their assessment of it.

i think generally, the owners was probably under the impression that whatever the team in Liverpool were doing, they had control over it and were capable enough, hence they took the back seat. they didn't think it would escalate to such heights where even the sponsors get involved. and like it or not, in today's age, sponsorship is a very big deal. i do like the manner in which FSG runs the club though, by rarely ever being in the public eye, unlike their predecessors. i really can't find a reason to blame the owners based in America for this, when it was the management team is Liverpool who should have been competent enough to handle the press.

all in all, the end result of this is that we have been made to look silly, in our efforts to protect Suarez. the club could have just gone along the lines of it was an innocent misunderstanding because Suarez used a word acceptable in his culture and did not think it would provoke such a response here. that kind of statement would have at least garnered some sympathy and understanding, after all Suarez is from a different culture. it also shows humility on our part. but for me, the worse part of it is that Fergie is happy.

i agree with a lot of that mate but you cant tell me that the day the players wore those suarez t shirts and released that strong statement the owners werent aware of the clubs stance, infact over an issue as serious as racisim i think ayre would have had to get their approval before releasing the statement.
fans, players etc are going to get caught up in the emotion of the moment but you`d expect that management would look at things in a more logical and rational fashion.
that statement and those t shirts were the moment when the situation escalated into what would become the biggest sporting race issue in this country since the 1980`s.
anyone can make mistakes, it just looks to me that kenny and suarez are carrying the can for a situation that involved poor decision making at all levels.
it would have been nice for the club to release a statement saying the whole club was sorry instead of lambasting 2 individuals.
it`s not the liverpool way to hang someone out to dry, especially someone like kenny who was just doing what any manager would do.
we sink or swim together, or we used to, the club philosophy these days seems to be man overboard.

by **Igor Zidane** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:21 pm

maypaxvobiscum wrote:
Igor Zidane wrote:
lakes10 wrote:I think some forget that we come close as 12 hours from going bust. In my view and it's p.o.d. my view.the owners should and will stand by the club in whatever it's involved in.

Your right lakes, but it doesn't mean these owners are immune from critisism .

neither are Kenny and the management in UK, Igor. he should have been smart enough to realize that he should be talking with his brains, instead of his heart. some people are capable of saying the dumbest things in the heat of the moment. what the club should have done is simply refuse to allow the media to ask any questions on the Suarez issue, hence Kenny would have avoided being bombarded with question after question which got him mad. that was the first thing the club did wrong.

this whole debacle has been an absolute PR disaster and it's very disappointing. in a recent match between Man City and Villa, the Vila mascot refused to shake the hands of the City mascot. this is just another opportunity for the press to pour some heat on Suarez claiming he is a bad influence, etc etc.

when Liverpool came out with such a strong response to the 8 match ban, i was expecting an appeal. so when we decided not to appeal, i felt that the purpose of releasing such a strong statement only to back down is ridiculous, and made us look very fickle. i was actually pretty supportive of such a strong statement, but on hindsight, i realize it was poor and posters such as Andy G, DD and 7_Kewell were correct in their assessment of it.

i think generally, the owners was probably under the impression that whatever the team in Liverpool were doing, they had control over it and were capable enough, hence they took the back seat. they didn't think it would escalate to such heights where even the sponsors get involved. and like it or not, in today's age, sponsorship is a very big deal. i do like the manner in which FSG runs the club though, by rarely ever being in the public eye, unlike their predecessors. i really can't find a reason to blame the owners based in America for this, when it was the management team is Liverpool who should have been competent enough to handle the press.

all in all, the end result of this is that we have been made to look silly, in our efforts to protect Suarez. the club could have just gone along the lines of it was an innocent misunderstanding because Suarez used a word acceptable in his culture and did not think it would provoke such a response here. that kind of statement would have at least garnered some sympathy and understanding, after all Suarez is from a different culture. it also shows humility on our part. but for me, the worse part of it is that Fergie is happy.

Good post mate and fair points made. The point i was trying to make was that the owners only decided to step in when standard chartered and the new york times opened there mouths . They should have and would have been in much sooner if they were over here or had either JW or Tom werner over here on atleast a semi permenant basis. That's the part that is not good enough , they are the o wnersafter all the buck does stop with them .

by **Redman in wales** » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:16 pm

see this is where I disagree. I do see your points Igor but I, like maypax, think it could have been handled better here, and if it had, they wouldn't have needed to comment at all. In my opinion, the owners shouldn't have come in any sooner than this because the media and PR approach from our club should have been a lot better.

These matters up to now should have been dealt with by Ian Ayre and the club - it doesn't need US owners to come over here to tell our MD how to do his job. Our approach was wrong, so they're now coming over to clear up the mess and try and calm the situation. Had our approach been right (eg the examples given in Maypax's post above) there would have been no need for the owners to say anything.

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