Liverpool FC Forum

by **parchpea** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:37 pm

The end of Rafas reign saw his supporters highlight lack of funds and problems off the park for his failure and yet Hodgson came into the job in the middle of all that but has not been afforded the same sympathy at all. I fell out with Benitez way back and under the circumstances thought Hodgson would do a decent job but the way I see it now is we have pretty much swapped like for like in terms of how we approach the game. Whichever guy you like individually I just see the same ideas and strategy and this is why we are struggling again just like last year. Nothings changed when our problem is we need a complete over haul at first in style and tactics and down the line in personnel. If Hodgson fails its because hes too much like the man he replaced and he will end up going out via the same door.

by **stmichael** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:50 pm

ste123lfc wrote:I personally feel that Hodgson is not the right man for the job and that he is only a stop gap anyway, but whilst he is manager of our club i will bite my lip and support him.

Pretty much sums up how I feel. The Chelsea win has saved his job for at least a few months.

Roy is a corporate man, he wears the colours of the owners and the boards, which is why none of the fans miss him but all chairman rave about him. He's friends with many of the football writers in this country which means they'll afford him more leeway when things weren't going well than a foreign counterpart. When Ramos was at Spurs the press slaughtered him when the had 2 points from 8 games and they essentially hounded him out. This season we had 6 points from 8 games but I heard the same people saying it would be "a disgrace" if we got rid of Hodgson so soon.

10 points out of 12 is a good revival but nobody is kidded into thinking we're playing well. I suppose the most important question is this. What has anyone seen in Roy's work to suggest that he will make a difference if given more time? I have to say that the idea of Roy with money to spend terrifies me.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:55 pm

glenbuck patriot wrote:
SouthCoastShankly wrote:I personally was really reluctant to appoint Hodgson but something got me thinking when reading zarababe's post in another thread, she said -

RESPECT IS EARNT .. and all Liverpool Managers either have it and retain it or lose it and move on !

It got me thinking and wondering whether Hodgson is being offered the same level of respect and patience as Benitez was.

I did some digging. When Liverpool appointed Benitez in 2004 he was left with a team flooded with poor buys and growing discontent by Liverpool supporters who were angry with the mediocrity of the standard of football (see this Hansen interview). Bear in mind also this was when Houllier had just sealed CL football by finishing 4th in the league.

Benitez first season (2004/05) with his new side, he spent £18m in the first transfer window (Alonso 10m, Garcia 6m, Josemi 2m, Nunez Free) and 6m in the second (Morientes 5.5m, Carson 0.75m, Pelligrino Free) totalling 24m.

In his first 12 league games his record was 6 Wins 4 Losses 2 Draws (20 points). 6th in the league. That season we miraculously finished 5th! Even after losing 14 times in total! Our final stats were 17 Wins 14 Losses 2 Draws (+11GD)

So I guess it brings me back to the original question, is Hodgson being offered the same level of respect and patience.

Clearly not. Hypocritically in fact.

The similarities between Hodgson's appointment and Benitez's is stark. Both inherited poor squads, both struggled in their first 12 games. Yet the respect Hodgson is given is appalling from some on here and at Anfield.

Benitez came to Liverpool with a La Liga and a UEFA cup under his belt, spent close to 25 million in his first season, lost 14 times and failed to finish in a CL place. Yet he was given complete support by Liverpool supporters on the priviso it was work in progress, and rightly so.

Isn't it time the hypocrisy stopped and we offer Hodgson the same support that Benitez was offered?

I think you'll find that Rafa arrived having won 2 x La Liga, the Uefa Cup and was the incumbent UEFA Manager of the year.

If your taking the whole season into account it was 17,7 & 14, not great BUT & it's a huge one!

The one startling ommission from your fact file for that season is that although we finished fifth we did win the European Cup for the fifth time.

I think you'll find THAT is the reason he was given complete support by the Liverpool Faithful and where your argument falls flat on it's face.

Of course the argument falls flat on its face. Idiot.

Not mentioning the CL win was intentional, I was comparing Hodgson to Benitez and the respect gained whilst in the job at league level. Benitez didn't win the CL in the first 12 games did he?

In fact after 12 games we were in serious trouble at the group stage, or do you care to forget the qualification to the knock out stage via the win against Olympiakos and the subsequent goal difference advantage for second.

Even without the above, Benitez's credentials were better than Hodgsons yet he almost has matched Hodgsons start in terms of mediocrity.

In my opinion, taking everything into consideration, there is no defence for the treatment of Hodgson when the previous manager started exactly the same. It's hypocrisy at its best.

In essence if the only focus is the CL win, then it is solely that win that prevented Benitez being sacked based on league results. Without the qualification in the previous season under Houllier, Benitez would never of got the chance to win it or qualify for it until the 2006/07 season.

by **LFC2007** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:56 pm

You don't have to respect his managerial abilities in order to respect him in his role as the manager of the club you support - see "decency". The latter for me is more or less an absolute, the former well that needs to earned.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:57 pm

Did Rafa ever have us so low in the league during those first 12 games ? Did he ever go to the press and critisize the fans ? Your acting like the fans were kissing his feet - I'm pretty sure there were plenty of doubters of Rafa in his first year and I'm pretty he wasn't given immediate respect .

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:58 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Whatever respect Roy had, he's destroyed it all on his own. Is he being treated fairly? Yes.

I assume your opinion of Rafa was the same after 12 games in his first season. After all he had lost 4 times and was struggling in the league and Europe.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:59 pm

Respect isn't just about what happens on the pitch .

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:07 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Respect isn't just about what happens on the pitch .

Sorry but you are clutching at straws and creating new reasons to hate him now.

Almost every negative opinion of him is based on his performance as a manager.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:13 pm

Hold on a minute - when have I ever said I hate him ? Plenty of people have mentioned his actions of the field as well as on , his criticising of the fans . I would like to ask you what you mean by respect towards the manager ? There is plenty of people on here who are criticising the manager - so by criticising does that mean lack of respect ? So if we find a fault in something he does or disagree with a choice of his that means we are not showing him respect now ?

So basically negative opinion now means no respect

by **zarababe** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:17 pm

Respect ... and fairness mmmm

I think others before me have cleared up the Rafa.. Istanbul.. legend Respect thing..

As for Roy. It's interesting really, most Liverpool Supporters will admit that they were not excited by the 'link' to Roy, his appointment and subsequent exploits - if we accept that when we 'don't rate someone', think they are not 'capable' of leading us (managing the team), then respect in itself is difficult to give and harder to earn, most people need convincing, first by 'words' then by actions.. a bit like the scenario with our new owners - can we trust them? etc etc.

What did Rafa get .. legend status by winning No5 - for that alone !.. and other improvemnets footballing-wise but most importantly at a time of great threat to the survival of our club HE exposed the truth behind the H&G deception, put his neck on the line for the club and 'us', its supporters and in the end manouvered like a politician to survive under those atrocious two, probably losing his sanity in the process too ! .. and look at Rafa, Liverpool still gets to him.. it's in him - it is hard to let go !

..and so while I accept it was time for him to go .. he GOT IT and he has earnt his respect, by words and deeds.

Roy - comes in needs to establish he is the right man for THIS JOB, he is liked (nice guy etc etc) , but many are not sure.. but true in the liverpool way he'll get his chance - but he is appointed by 'the atrocious two' - replacing the much loved Benitez. Added to all this, the club is in the relegation zone, there are no tactics for a mile, the players are playin p'ss poor and Roy says some embarrassing things ... so within this situation can we really critcise anyone for not being fair and respectful.. are we not just seeing what many predicted or should we all by default forget how we feel, because he is LIVERPOOL MANAGER ?

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:18 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Hold on a minute - when have I ever said I hate him ? Plenty of people have mentioned his actions of the field as well as on , his criticising of the fans . I would like to ask you what you mean by respect towards the manager ? There is plenty of people on here who are criticising the manager - so by criticising does that mean lack of respect ? So if we find a fault in something he does or disagree with a choice of his that means we are not showing him respect now ?

So basically negative opinion now means no respect

Your right I didn't mean to say hate.

By lack of respect I mean not giving the same allowance as was given to Benitez under the same setting. Additionally Benitez's league performance in his first year was one of his worst, Hodgson is having an equally bad start.

Yet there was no backlash to Benitez, even at the start when the prospect of winning the CL was a pipe dream.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:26 pm

I think when it came to Rafa he may well of got a little bit more leeway due to being new to the prem as opposed to Hodgson who has managed in the prem a number of years . I'm pretty sure that Rafa was criticised for his first league season ( some still do now ) . Rafa also connected with the fans early on - that night in the pub in Germany points to it - he seemed to also be a fan - Hodgson IMO has said a few things too many in the press that made people think WTF is he saying now . To say there was no backlash is incorrect as I remember boos from the crowd and also hearing murmours of discontent against Rafa and people at the game where not happy .

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:28 pm

Fair enough. Like I said in the first sentence, I disagreed with his appointment.

But considering the board have backed him, I feel it is morally right to offer him the same support I offered Benitez.

by **Reg** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:28 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:
Emerald Red wrote:Whatever respect Roy had, he's destroyed it all on his own. Is he being treated fairly? Yes.

I assume your opinion of Rafa was the same after 12 games in his first season. After all he had lost 4 times and was struggling in the league and Europe.

Whats this got to do with Rafa?

Folks - get over Rafa. Draw a line under him and move on.

by **Benny The Noon** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:31 pm

SouthCoastShankly wrote:Fair enough. Like I said in the first sentence, I disagreed with his appointment.

But considering the board have backed him, I feel it is morally right to offer him the same support I offered Benitez.

Support is different to respect mate - name someone at Liverpool who was given instant respect ?

Everyone will support as soon as that whistle goes - we the fans at the ground cheers and support and encourage for 90mins . But the fans expect and should get something back in return

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Respect - Is hodgson being treated fairly?

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