Liverpool FC Forum

by **tubby** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:17 pm

Can't see Johnson coming here tbh, why would City even let him go? Torres will be fine when he has better players giving him service.

by **TarnRed** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:22 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Anyone crticising Torres obviously hasn't played a football match in a team with a midfield that creates no chances and camps more or less outside their own box. Regardless of what level of football this experience comes from or how good a player you are, you still need to be fed chances to score. Currently, the way Hodgson has this team set up and performing is a direct reflection on Fernando's form, not vice versa as some of the clueless think.

Good post mate. :buttrock

by **rocky29** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:23 pm

bavlondon wrote:Can't see Johnson coming here tbh, why would City even let him go? Torres will be fine when he has better players giving him service.

listen all im saying is if nando wants out we have to be clever there will be teams like citeh and chelsea desperate to get nando so id rather get a quality player plus cash than just cash.

by **mart** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:37 pm

rocky29 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Can't see Johnson coming here tbh, why would City even let him go? Torres will be fine when he has better players giving him service.

listen all im saying is if nando wants out we have to be clever there will be teams like citeh and chelsea desperate to get nando so id rather get a quality player plus cash than just cash.

Why would city sell johnson? They are not that desperate for Torres, especially not after he has had a bad season. Its more likely we can get one or more of their leftover strikers.

by **andy_g** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:37 pm

Emerald Red wrote:Anyone crticising Torres obviously hasn't played a football match in a team with a midfield that creates no chances and camps more or less outside their own box. Regardless of what level of football this experience comes from or how good a player you are, you still need to be fed chances to score. Currently, the way Hodgson has this team set up and performing is a direct reflection on Fernando's form, not vice versa as some of the clueless think.

i don't think its so simple actually. its not the first time in his liverpool career that torres has been isolated up top but its the first time he's shown so little enthusiasm to exert his will on the game. remember last season, and even the season before when we actually played well? torres would maybe touch the ball 5 times in some games but one of those touches was liable to result in a goal. in today's game he received the several times around or in the box and apart from one nice sidestep and shot he did bugger all with it, and showed little determination to do anything with it.

the best strikers, when they feel good about themselves can sit out a game waiting for that chance and when they get it they will take it. the best strikers, when they feel good about themselves will also make an effort to get into the game on their own terms and make things happen.

torres this season is doing none of that and is plainly out of sorts. sure the tactics aren't ideal for him but that's too easy and excuse.

by **rocky29** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:06 pm

mart wrote:
rocky29 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Can't see Johnson coming here tbh, why would City even let him go? Torres will be fine when he has better players giving him service.

listen all im saying is if nando wants out we have to be clever there will be teams like citeh and chelsea desperate to get nando so id rather get a quality player plus cash than just cash.

Why would city sell johnson? They are not that desperate for Torres, especially not after he has had a bad season. Its more likely we can get one or more of their leftover strikers.

dont be so naive citeh and chelsea will both bid for nando in january.

by **aCe'** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:40 pm

Carra at rightback and even Maxi Rodrigues were better than Torres today...

2 concerns i have with Torres besides his inability to find the net (which could be a result of both tbh):

1- He doesnt seem capable of holding up the ball higher up and bringing others into play... Which renders our long ball antiques useless ..
2- He doesnt seem to be interested in making runs behind defenders/fullbacks.... Many top strikers dont, but they hold up the ball and move at the right time... ATM, Torres is doing neither.... loses way too many balls and seems to lack fitness and confidence...

Wouldnt have thought that a player like Torres would become complacent due to lack of quality options on the bench... Its either that or he's struggling for fitness and should be benched !

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:07 am

he's the answer, not the question as far as i'm concerned. yes he's a shadow of the player we know but even through that he's scored our only winning goal in the league and also set up at least three others. the service to him is nothing short of criminal though. i'd be pi$$ed off having to rely on service being pumped 50 yards from our back four for 90 minutes.

to say he doesn't care is simply not true though. the fact he cares so much is why he looks so downhearted imo.

by **Ben Patrick** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:15 am

Bad Bob wrote:
bigmick wrote:In many respects, my predicted "trio behind Torres" formation absolutely came to pass, and both Carragher and Konchesky were often bombing on.

Sure, mate, we saw some of that...especially after Everton's second, when the were happy to sit back a little and let us pass the ball around. But, there was not a whole lot of incisive play on our part. Carra and Konchesky were game to get forward, fair play, but they weren't delivering the kind of balls into the box that caused problems. For all this discussion of Torres as a passenger, Joe Cole and Maxi were far worse, IMO, and it was up to Gerrard to provide the drive. Still, he couldn't do much either, as the centre of the park was very congested and blue shirts cut down all the passing angles that would do any damage. So, while we might have done a little better pushing up in the second half today, we were still a long ways away from posing a sustained threat.

Quoting mick here not you bob.

Hope that was a joke about the trio being behind torres mick.
Unless behind means 40 yards further back ?

They were miles behind him virtually all of the time. In the second half they were closer but that was when we were 2-0 down and Everton just sat back asking us to try and break them down.

I actually dont understand what people expect Torres to do in a game like that.
Hold the ball up ?
For who ?
The support is not there as we are miles too deep.

by **JBG** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:24 am

rocky29 wrote:
bavlondon wrote:Can't see Johnson coming here tbh, why would City even let him go? Torres will be fine when he has better players giving him service.

listen all im saying is if nando wants out we have to be clever there will be teams like citeh and chelsea desperate to get nando so id rather get a quality player plus cash than just cash.

Dont you have lego blocks to go and play with?

by **Penguins** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:30 am

Fernando Torres under Rafa - 56 goals in 79 PL games

Fernando Torres under Roy - 1 goal in 8 PL games

Coincidence?

NO *ING WAY!

by **Ciggy** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:50 am

Those of you pointing the finger in Torres's direction aim that finger at the manager hes to blame.

by **sixbuster** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:09 am

Ciggy wrote:Those of you pointing the finger in Torres's direction aim that finger at the manager hes to blame.

I partially agree(90%), but what i find frustrating is his lack of enthusiasm, lack of passion, its as if he doesn't want to be here. At the end of the day he is a professional who is paid to do a job that he is at this moment in time not capable of. I accept the manager is a lot to do with it but not all.

by **Ian Rush's Right foot** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:19 am

sixbuster wrote:
Ciggy wrote:Those of you pointing the finger in Torres's direction aim that finger at the manager hes to blame.

I partially agree(90%), but what i find frustrating is his lack of enthusiasm, lack of passion, its as if he doesn't want to be here. At the end of the day he is a professional who is paid to do a job that he is at this moment in time not capable of. I accept the manager is a lot to do with it but not all.

well u partially agree (90%) lol? but your coments don't match that buddy.

Take yourself, at work if you don't know what your expected to do within a team is that your fault or your boss's!?!!

and thier is your answer, its simples... ROY OUT!!!!

by **stmichael** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:49 pm

Even Hansen is now talking complete nonsense week after week, which is a shame, as he was one of the red's who I genuinely used to respect. He's no different to Lawrenson now in many respects:

...........................

Liverpool have relied on two players too long and Fernando Torres is now going backwards

Hodgson has been in football long enough to know that he will carry the can for everything that has gone wrong with Liverpool’s start to the season.

Lying 19th in the Premier League, that is the nature of the game. The problem, though, runs deeper than that.

Sport on television Liverpool are paying the price for relying so heavily for so long on two men: Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres. For several years, they have turned to them to win games, to get them out of trouble. For years, they produced.

Suddenly, one of the two is proving ineffective.

It is Torres who is of concern. No player has ever become a superstar at Liverpool in such a short space of time. Yet he has gone from being a world-beater to the sort of striker any defender would relish marking. His game has always relied on pace and sharpness, and at the moment he has neither.

Like Wayne Rooney, he looks as though he has never seen a football before.

Hodgson is caught in a Catch 22, because the only way to help Torres recapture the form which terrorised the rest of the Premier League for so long is to offer him the playing time he needs.

Every time he plays, though, he looks worse, he loses a little bit more confidence and the problem becomes more entrenched.

There is an argument that Torres needs more help from his team-mates, but then he did not need that assistance three years ago, when he was more than capable of picking the ball up and comfortably beating three men.

His confidence is so low now, though, that every time he received possession yesterday, he looked to play it backwards. That is not the Fernando Torres of old.

Because he has effectively been removed from the equation, Liverpool now find themselves looking to Gerrard to win games on his own.

Though he has played better than all of his outfield team-mates this season, he can no longer drag the club along by the force of his own will. And yet there is nobody among the squad at Hodgson’s disposal prepared to stand up and offer something extra, something different, when they stand on the edge of the abyss.

There are too many players who look good when things are going well, but seem resigned to being poor when everything is not so perfect.

That has been coming for a long time. Hodgson inherited a squad with too many average players and four or five exceptional ones, but for so long had they been used to looking to the real top two that, when they are a shadow of their former selves, there is nobody to step into the breach.

This is largely the same Liverpool side who finished second just two years ago. True, Xabi Alonso and Javier Mascherano have left the club, but the overwhelming majority of players were there when Real Madrid and Manchester United were beaten comprehensively in successive games.

They still have internationals in every position, whether it is Joe Cole, who has been a regular in the England set-up for years, or Dirk Kuyt, who played in the World Cup final for Holland, while they have added Raul Meireles, who was exceptional for Portugal in South Africa.

But the difference between then and now is in their confidence as a collective unit.

Imagine going into the dressing room two years ago, when Torres and Gerrard were at their best, brimming with certainty that, while you had to play well, those two would do more than enough to win the game for you.

Now, you would look around and see Torres a million miles from his best, leaving Gerrard alone to make the difference.

It is up to others to step up to the plate. They have not done that for so long that you wonder who is capable of doing so.

It is to Hodgson that the task of turning that around falls, and how he goes about it is something only he can answer.

That is how he earns his corn. But what Liverpool need more than anything is to throw caution aside against Blackburn on Sunday and produce a performance to show the world that they are not finished.

Not only that, but a performance to prove to themselves that they cannot possibly be as bad as they currently are.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8069728/Liverpool-have-relied-on-two-players-too-long-and-Fernando-Torres-is-now-going-backwards.h
tml]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport....ds.html[/url]

:no

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