Why roy is right..... - Buying for the here and now.

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby maguskwt » Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:19 am

The_Rock wrote:As for the mancity result....when you train for a week with a team in mind....and a classless one trick pony goes on a mutany (and therefore throwing all the carefully planned tactics out the window), what do you think is gonna happen against a stronger man city team (compared to the one last season....which we fail to beat twice under your benitez ?).

so you mean for all his careful planning, Roy doesn't have plan B?
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Postby Ben Patrick » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:10 am

I am relatively happy with our transfer business this summer but not 100%.
Like Benny i feel a striker should have been a priority. That ruined our season last season (amongst other things). If Torres gets injured for a sustained period of time then we will again struggle.
Ngog has come in and done ok, to be fair he has surprised me. But he isnt the player that can play 5 games in a row and score the required goals if we lose Torres.
I would have him as a third or 4th choice coming on late in games and starting the odd game here and there.
Like Igor said its probably not Roys fault as his hands are clearly tied financially but like i criticised Rafa in January for the same reason. We have been able to bring in players, therefore we could have signed a striker.
He has done well replacing Insua with Konchesky and hopefully reducing Lucas to being a squad player by signing Meierles and Poulsen.
Lucas, Insua and Ngog starting so many matches was the reason we were mediocre last season. Two of those should just be squad players hopefully now, and IF Torres stays fit all 3 will be.
We will all be living on our nerves regarding Torres's fitness though that's for sure.
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:17 am

This thread is brilliant.. we have possibly the worst fans in the league :D

(not you Ben)
Last edited by dawson99 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ben Patrick » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:28 am

dawson99 wrote:This thread is brilliant.. we have possibly the worst fans in the league :D

(not you Ben)

Certainly not me Daws, i am a superfan.

I am even going to Birmingham away next week  :D
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Postby roberto green » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:39 am

No no I'm Liverpools superfan I'm off to watch Inter Milan next week

:D
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Postby Ben Patrick » Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:43 am

roberto green wrote:No no I'm Liverpools superfan I'm off to watch Inter Milan next week

:D

:D

I'm supporting Meeelan this season.

If Rafa won everything there this forum would get even worse  :p
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Postby crazyhorse » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:18 am

It really is not a question of saying I am going to back Roy for five years, six months, a week or otherwise.

As a tactician I dont really see how anyone can say he is not good enough, he is proven. The one hole in his CV as a manager is that he has not reached the hights in charge of a big club. I dont think anyone here would argue that he has earned the right for this chance.

What i want to see is progress. And I am seeing it. Yanks aside (and I accept this is the biggest problem) I see a fundamental change in the signals he gives. He is a coach on the training field, and he alone is resonsible for the ideas translating from the training field into the PL. Something we have not had for a while.. Rafa was not as hands on there.

Roy to my mind is also a very good man manager. He has not messed about. He has identified what players he does not fancy very early on and shipped them out.. Aqua is an example. He made the decision he is not strong enough for the PL and instead of leaving him on the bench all season did something. He has removed him from the wage bill this year, but also given him hope that he can come back. He stated clearly he wanted to keep Mach but soon got him shipped out when he realised his heart was not in it.

I am not worshipping at the alter of Roy here, but to my mind he has made a good start. He has in a couple of months sorted a lot of our problems, and not created more. That was the problem with the Benitez rougime.. eg he sold Alonso and replaced him with Aqua... we were worse off. We have had a new midfield player brought in who has a bit of steel about him in this protugese guy. In Poulson we have a player who is made to mix it, and offers more going forward than Lucas and a half decent full back who will do well as a steady eddie type. Best of all he has really done well pulling in Joe Cole, who could become an Anfield Legend.

As I said it is not a question of time given for him to prove himself. I will support him fully as long as I see us going the right way. There is no time limit on this for me. The club is not in bad shape, and we do not have far to go to challenge. What we do not need is 'fans' openly stating that he is not good enough, or is :censored: at this early juncture!
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Sat Sep 04, 2010 10:53 am

Calum wrote:I'm mainly pleased about the players Roy has bought this summer. Compared to this time last year, we have a stronger squad. I remember looking at the subs bench during the first game last season against Tottenham thinking "Is that it?"

agreed. i remember that game and was enviously comparing the Spurs bench against ours.
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Postby Calum » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:48 pm

dawson99 wrote:This thread is brilliant.. we have possibly the worst fans in the league :D

(not you Ben)

What's different about Ben?
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Postby JC_81 » Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:04 pm

Hodgson has made the same mistake as Benitez made last season in not signing a striker.  He will regret it I have no doubts about that.

Cole is a better player than some of the players we have let go (ie Benayoun and Riera).  Poulsen won't have the same impact as Mascherano did in games and Konchesky will most likely be solid and a better bet than Insua last season.  I like Jovanovic but he's too similar too Kuyt in that he's more graft than guile, I don't think we can afford to play both of them in a front three to be honest.  Meireles must be bollox though if he can't make more of an impact than Aquilani did, so that's one area that should considerably improve.

Overall we'll probably be slightly better than last season, but we'll struggle to make top 4 without a decent backup to Torres... again.
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Postby TarnRed » Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:48 pm

Does anybody ever read the official forum ?.

This is a brilliant read and goes some way in explaining how intelligent a manager Roy is, from a member (Fowi)


I was watching the WBA game last weekend and the expert for Danish TV was Jacob Laursen. For those not familiar with his work, he’s a retired Danish international who has played in Denmark, England (Derby, Wolves) and Switzerland. Among the clubs on his Danish CV is Hodgson’s FC Copenhagen. The story is that upon Hodgson’s arrival at FCK he asked the club to sign Laursen and then made him the captain.

It was quite interesting to hear small pieces of inside information on the coaching philosophy of Hodgson throughout the game. Among other things he mentioned that Roy is happiest when he’s on the training ground. He dislikes the agents and he dislikes the transfer window. He asks for certain players, but then steps away and doesn’t deal with these things until the transfer is done.

Another interesting thing he said is how Roy is one of the most methodical managers in Europe. To quote Laursen: “When you start working with Roy it’s all very confusing. In his head he has a clear idea of what each player should do and for a while it’s all a big mess because footballers are not equipped to take on board such complicated instructions. However, once those instructions sunk in at FCK we played some of the best football ever seen in Danish football.”

This is exactly how I see Roy. People are already familiar with my admiration for his coaching abilities and one of the biggest reasons for it is that he’s a proper football coach. He has been all over the world, but one thing that always goes with him is his desire to do things his own way and to do it himself. He will not delegate anything to anybody on the training ground. Instead he’ll be there, just as much at the age of 63 as he was 30 years ago, waving his arms at people and teaching professionals half his age how to do their job.

Roy, being what he is, is why I think he’ll bring the best out of our team. In a lot of ways his working philosophy reminds me of that of Van Gaal. Highly methodical, takes a bit of time to implement his ideas, but eventually produces a strong team more often than not. Another similarity is that when their philosophy doesn’t work then it really doesn’t work (Roy at Blackburn, Van Gaal for Holland). So when criticizing Roy, either positively or negatively, remember what happened to Van Gaal last season. He was one game away from getting the boot, but he stuck to his philosophy and eventually engineered one of the best seasons at history of the club. Coincidentally Van Gaal, just like Roy Hodgson, wasn’t the most popular choice when he was first appointed and there was a lot of sceptisicism from the same people who now call him one of the best in the business. My message is, give it some time.

The real question is, what does he have to work with?

I believe our squad is strong than last season. That’s a statement right there. I believe we’ve only lost one starting 11 player (Mascherano) and bought four starting 11 players (Konchesky, Poulsen, Meireles, Cole). That in itself has to be an improvement. Looking at our squad as a whole I think out of the players we’ve let go only Mascherano and Yossi will be missed in the squad. The rest either didn’t play (Riera, Aquilani, El Zhar, Plessis) or played very poorly (Insua). That again tells me we’re better off now.

Does this mean our squad is what we want it to be? No. Absolutely not. Realistically we’re about 3 players short by lacking another central midfielder who, in terms of quality, is closer to Gerrard and Meireles than Poulsen and Lucas. We lack a winger who is good enough to start every game. We also lack another striker. The unfortunate thing, though, is that all those players cost a lot of money, are on massive wages and already play for good clubs. We saw that in our inability to convince Mario Gomez to give up being the highest paid player at the best club in Germany.

So when you don’t have the money to buy established attacking players you need to take a long shot on either a talented youngster or a player who doesn’t look up to much now, but could do so in the future. The problem with either approach is that you need to give those types of players games, and plenty of them. And again, we can’t afford this luxury at the moment. The likes of Cole and Zamora have been mentioned, but one has to ask whether those players would be as effective if they got degraded from being regular starters to squad players. What we do know is that N’Gog and Kuyt can chip in with 10 goals each deputizing for Torres. Would Cole and Zamora do better? I’m not so sure. Starting every week and being the focal points of their teams is one thing. Being a rotational player at a big club is another thing.

Having started the twitter thread I know that every signing, or even a rumor of a signing, is exciting. Had it flashed on SSN that we’ve signed Van Der Vaart we’d all be jumping up and down. Hell, we even got excited about Pavlychenko rumors. But when the dust settles you actually realize that Liverpool is still a strong enough team which cannot be improved by any decent player. Every signing has to make sense in the situation we’re in and all the excitement aside I don’t think signing any random striker or midfielder would have been the answer.

I could be in minority but, for me, the biggest issue is the midfield. Options are plenty, but quality is sparse. Out of 5 central midfielders only two are genuine class players, namely Gerrard and Meireles. Poulsen and Lucas are decent squad players and Shelvey is a talented youngster. The positive is that you don’t need all your midfielders to be top class, but then you have to rely on your best ones staying fit for most of the season.

Options for the three positions behind Torres are also of alarmingly low quality. Kuyt, Maxi, Babel, Cole, Jovanovic and Pacheco range from good to decent to unknown, but none of them is a stand out performer and this is where Liverpool has its biggest weakness. There is no player in any of those positions that you want to isolate and give the ball. There is nobody to turn to when organized football can’t give you the edge. Cole comes closest to such description, but as he nears the age of 30 he’s becoming more of a pass and move midfielder than a winger.

Criticism to one side, though, there is still plenty of quality in this Liverpool team. The best goalkeeper in England plays behind the most extravagant right back in England. Liverpool is also the only top 4 club who can take pride in having four international centrebacks, all with decent number of caps for their respective countries. There are a few top class midfielders and possibly world’s best striker. Around those players are other international players that come with impressive stats, both in England and abroad. There is plenty to work with and as long as the very good players have very good seasons the water carriers will tag along.

This transfer window was big, difficult but also very, very important. A lot of dead wood has been canned and for the first time in years we can say that there are no senior passengers in our squad, like Degen and El Zhar were. We have tried our best to add some class players in Meireles, Cole while trying to plug the holes with experienced players like Konchesky, Jovanovic and Poulsen.

The positive about the transfer window closing is that the manager can now go back to doing what he does best. Spending hours on the training ground with his team in a quest to make them play the way he wants it.

Make no mistake, this team is damaged and wounded. It’s been through hell on and off the pitch in the last 12 months and it has taken its toll even on the best of them. A manager cannot just come in, tell a joke and make them all feel happy about themselves. Each player needs to regain confidence and belief and this will not come overnight. It must come through hard work, dedication and belief and the manager.

Given a bit of time and patience, coupled with a bit of lucky injury wise, I believe we’ll slowly have more and more to smile about.

And if the eternal pessimist believes then so should you.
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Postby fivecups » Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:12 pm

Good post that.

Luck and momentum, that's what we need.
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Postby Thommo's perm » Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:17 am

fivecups wrote:Good post that.

Luck and momentum, that's what we need.

Who doesnt?
:;):
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Postby bigmick » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:20 pm

crazyhorse wrote:It really is not a question of saying I am going to back Roy for five years, six months, a week or otherwise.

As a tactician I dont really see how anyone can say he is not good enough, he is proven. The one hole in his CV as a manager is that he has not reached the hights in charge of a big club. I dont think anyone here would argue that he has earned the right for this chance.

What i want to see is progress. And I am seeing it. Yanks aside (and I accept this is the biggest problem) I see a fundamental change in the signals he gives. He is a coach on the training field, and he alone is resonsible for the ideas translating from the training field into the PL. Something we have not had for a while.. Rafa was not as hands on there.

Roy to my mind is also a very good man manager. He has not messed about. He has identified what players he does not fancy very early on and shipped them out.. Aqua is an example. He made the decision he is not strong enough for the PL and instead of leaving him on the bench all season did something. He has removed him from the wage bill this year, but also given him hope that he can come back. He stated clearly he wanted to keep Mach but soon got him shipped out when he realised his heart was not in it.

I am not worshipping at the alter of Roy here, but to my mind he has made a good start. He has in a couple of months sorted a lot of our problems, and not created more. That was the problem with the Benitez rougime.. eg he sold Alonso and replaced him with Aqua... we were worse off. We have had a new midfield player brought in who has a bit of steel about him in this protugese guy. In Poulson we have a player who is made to mix it, and offers more going forward than Lucas and a half decent full back who will do well as a steady eddie type. Best of all he has really done well pulling in Joe Cole, who could become an Anfield Legend.

As I said it is not a question of time given for him to prove himself. I will support him fully as long as I see us going the right way. There is no time limit on this for me. The club is not in bad shape, and we do not have far to go to challenge. What we do not need is 'fans' openly stating that he is not good enough, or is :censored: at this early juncture!

Top post that mate.
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Postby Reg » Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:25 pm

I dont understand why this is even being discussed. 

He's got the job, he's just started, its early days so by definition with anyone taking over a senior and complicated role he needs time to find his feet.

The sooner people back off and let him get on with his job the better. We dont HAVE to discuss these issues to death.
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