Liverpool FC Forum

[In and Out]

One or two people are becoming concerned that the average age of our likely first team is shooting up

It's any old stick to beat the new manager with, pretty desperate really.

[In and Out]

Jeez must you toot the Roy horn every 5 mins. I think it's a terrible idea to sign someone like him, he isn't good enough for this club end of story. As for Gerrard and Torres I don't think their future hinges on having a better season than last season, it hinges on a change of ownership but more importantly sigificant funds being pumped into the team. Sorry but I haven't really been impressed so far with the style of play and I wasn't really impressed with Fulham last season either. Ugly football at best.

Cole is a decent player but lets face it he only came here on the premise we would be getting more players of his quality. The point is Mick if he keeps buying old players what resale value do they have 2 years down the line if we got rid of Roy? Zero.

Don't mind me though, keep tooting your horn mate.

I think the thread starter is trying to explain to erm... others who are whnging about signing 'sky pundits' WHY he is signing them and his reasoning behind it because as usual people have gotten a bee in the bonnet and are screaming catastrophe at any given opportunity.

[bigmick]

You forgot to mention Birmingham Mick ....Don't fret I will do it for  ...Birmingham away will be our next game surely this will be a true yard stick to how far we have actually come under Roy , after all Birmingham (and their close proximity )were by some posters used as a stick to beat the previous manager with ...a trend that lost its novelty value when we finished higher than them .... I believe we finished seventh if I am not mistaken I am just saying that because it might sate your appetite for including the number in every post 
As for your affliction with repeatedly mentioning the position we finished in ...I cant help you with that mate ....but I will endeavour to point it out if it escalates to the levels you included Rafa in some of your earlier posts
Anyway just to finish on a friendly note ..... any time I can help Big Fella I will be there ....you will always be able to count on my support
after all obsession is no laughing matter ....

We did finsih above Birmingham in the end Red you're quite right. They fell away a bit towards the end and the class rose to the top in that particular battle. We also managed to get ourselves 11 points clear of Blackburn as I remember, which shouldn't be sniffed at .

Looking forward though rather than back which is always healthier, call me crazy but I'm actually aspiring to do a bit better this season. The Birmingham match is crucial in many ways. Win there and we'll really be onto something, draw and we will be staying solid during our unbelieveably difficult start, lose and the real fans will be circling, baying for blood after four league games.

I'm taking us to put in a performance and better last seasons 2-2 draw. Us to win 2-0   

[Reg]

I had a good chuckle at this thread.... control... control....

We've had some wonderful managers over the years, I was never aware they needed someone to dominate the press/media or modern equivielnt the forum to ensure we will not criticise them.

Mick, let the results tell the story, its much more fun that way.

[Bad Bob]

I'll fully admit that we've hardly played scintilating football so far this campaign.  I do remember us having a fairly wobbly start to the campaign before last: making heavy work of getting past Standard Liege in the CL qualifiers, struggling to see off Boro at home, drawing with newly-promoted Stoke etc. etc.  Yet, we got some key results, our form picked up and we almost won the league that year.  If the results keep coming, I'm confident the form will improve.

Also, I find it churlish to judge Roy's style so soon.  He's barely just arrived and the transfer window has just closed.  Let's give him a few weeks to assess the players he has and get working with them to instill his ideas.  If our form is still terrible in November maybe we can start worrying.  For me, though, it's about the results first and foremost.  That was true under the last manager, according to most people, so it surely remains true under our current manager.  Fair is fair.

[bigmick]

Mick, let the results tell the story, its much more fun that way.

Once again I agree with you completely Reg. Lets see how Roy goes, then we can properly judge him. He's won five from seven so far losing only one, but it's still early days yet.

[tubby]

Well if we can remain unbeaten in our next 2 games (Away to Birmingham & Away to Man Utd), Roy will have definitley done something right imo. Hopefully the Man City game will have been a hard lesson to learn for Roy's tactical faux pas, and any result in the next 2 games would suffice in my book. Although I would expect us to win at Birmingham, but 2 points from these 2 games would be acceptable.

No tactical faux pas to speak of mate. Once he couldn't play Masherano, his plans were thrown into chaos. Don't worry about Roy tactically mate, he'll be absolutely fine. Ask anyone in football about Roy and tactics, that is one area he's got well and truly covered    .

Masch aside 2 of those goals were poor ones to concede.

[Igor Zidane]

One or two people are becoming concerned that the average age of our likely first team is shooting up. Equally, some of the new signings are being derided as not worthy of a team which has our aspirations, despite in most cases people being prepared to admit they are an improvment in the short term. So is Roy right to look in the direction he is, is there a worry that we are "turning into another Fulham" etc?

Ironically it is in many cases the very people who have least faith in his abilities, who call him a "stop-gap manager" who want him to look longer term, to buy layers with more potential for greatness rather than the here and now. My take is that Roy has had little choice but to do what he has done, and not only that but he has gone about his business very sensibly and with the minimm of fuss.

As far as I see it, the simple fact of the matter is that if we were to have another season like the last one, despite Roys apparent persuasiveness, both Gerrard and Torres would really want away. That's not to say it's "Champions League or we're off" necessarily, but they'll certainly be looking for a vast improvement straight away, both in our play and our results. In truth, so am I. If this manager can't be an improvement on his predecessor, then we may as well not have employed him. I don't mean an improvement in three years time either, I mean an improvement now.

Added to that is the fact that we are still considered a big club, a Champions League club. Fail to get in the top six for a couple of seasons running and we'll slip away, Everton style. THAT'S why it's the right thing to do to buy players like Konchesky. He'll improve us from the very first time he plays. Not when he settles and gets acclimatised, not next season, not when he develops physically or gets experience or any of that old b0ll0cks, but the very first time he plays. Ditto Christian Poulsen, Joey Cole. Been there, seen it, done it. That's what we need.

One last point, about us turning into another Fulham. The interesting thing with Fulham is that the season before they got to the Europa League Cup final, with Roy as the manager, they finished 7th. Hopefully if he can get Fulham up to the same position we finihsed last season, with better players he can get us higher. No five year plan though this time, continual improvement starting from THIS season has to be the way to go.

That's what Roy is setting up for IMHO  .

I think that's a very fair post meself . What i've come to terms with and i came to terms with it last season .Is that the Roy is managing with one arm tied behind his back . HE DOES NOT HAVE THE FUNDS TO COMPETE ,the very same as last season . He has to work with what he has got and what he can afford . He's bought a couple of steady eddies ( althought i'm not yet convinced by poulson yet , but give him time ) he's brought in on a free a creator for torres in cole . We are led to believe that the lad from portugal (can't spell his name sorry) is the dynamic midfielder we've been craving to let gerrard do what he does best . He's bought a back up goalie (personally i'd have promoted gulasci but that's ok) to cover pepe and jovanovic wasn't his buy but he's here .

Regarding this striker business . You've got to ask yourself where has the mascherano money gone ? He was promised he could spend the money he generated on player sales . Why was it on the last day of the season he couldn't just but a striker like carlton cole or whoever? Why was he relying on havenig to do a swap deal with babel , which babel turned down . You know the answer to these questions , so what you must consider when judgeing Roy is the circumstances he is managing under . He has to mold a team in his image around a couple of world class players , with little funds and little confidence from  the players or the fans to be frank . I'm more than willing to give Roy time and in all honesty i've written this season off now . I 'm not expecting anything ,so anything more than that is a bonus .

When Roy has a decent transfer budget and a proper board and owners behind him , that will be the time to judge and that will be that time to expect success .

[dawson99]

you've written the season off already? He did alright with Fulham in the Europa and you already think we are potless? Thats very negative dude, but with all the other sh!t going i dont blame your views

[Igor Zidane]

you've written the season off already? He did alright with Fulham in the Europa and you already think we are potless? Thats very negative dude, but with all the other sh!t going i dont blame your views

I've written it off daws not because of Roy mate , but because of our situation . Roy might be the best manger in the world , but noone can surely expect him to compete with Chelsea ,arsenal ,mancs ,city and spurs with one arm tied behind his back . It's unfair on the fella . Just for arguements sake say Torres and gerrard both get injured and are out for a month or two (god forebid ) what happens then , who's there to come in and take the mantle N'gog , jay spearing . Last season it happend and we were fecked . It could so easily happen this year , so we need to be realistic and understand the situation . I'm alright with that , don't get me wrong i'd rather we win everything and tw@t everyone but i'm just not getting my hopes up . With a bit of luck Torres ,gerrard and cole will be fine and all we'll need is the others to step it up , prove there worth and we will finish fourth or better. Maybe babel and pacheco will have big season's and all the worrying would have been for nothing . That would be boss.

[dawson99]

you've written the season off already? He did alright with Fulham in the Europa and you already think we are potless? Thats very negative dude, but with all the other sh!t going i dont blame your views

I've written it off daws not because of Roy mate , but because of our situation . Roy might be the best manger in the world , but noone can surely expect him to compete with Chelsea ,arsenal ,mancs ,city and spurs with one arm tied behind his back . It's unfair on the fella . Just for arguements sake say Torres and gerrard both get injured and are out for a month or two (god forebid ) what happens then , who's there to come in and take the mantle N'gog , jay spearing . Last season it happend and we were fecked . It could so easily happen this year , so we need to be realistic and understand the situation . I'm alright with that , don't get me wrong i'd rather we win everything and tw@t everyone but i'm just not getting my hopes up . With a bit of luck Torres ,gerrard and cole will be fine and all we'll need is the others to step it up , prove there worth and we will finish fourth or better. Maybe babel and pacheco will have big season's and all the worrying would have been for nothing . That would be boss.

Well put

[crim cram]

Excellent points Mick makes on Roy buying for NOW.  Let's not forget that Rafa put a lot into the youth development side of the club and I think we are about to see some dividends.  Kelly, Pacheco, Shelvey, Wilson, + a host of younger promising talents have afforded Roy (financial restraints not withstanding) to create a team to compete this year.  I'm sure Roy is hoping for extra cash from a buyout by the time the next transfer opens( i know i am) and that also contributed to waiting for the right player to come along. 

I don't think we can properly assess the product on the field just yet.  But I think Roy's done really well in the transfer market so far.  This is based primarily on getting Meireles AND the expectations that come with him.  Torres was the last player with this much hype and expectation, I hope he rises to the challenge.

[Ola Mr Benitez]

I think its very short sighted for people to start measuring how well Roy has done so early in the season.  With Pre-season being especially short this year thanks to the world cup and the limited time that Roy has had with his whole squad, do people really beleive we are going to be playing like champions now?

I think his buys in the market have ben good.  People moan that we have lost some youth players to seal the deal on an ageing left back, but I know for a fact that these players where not thought good enough by Rafa's management team (and Roy seems to agree).  They where always going to get moved on.

Konchesky is a solid, dependable player in a position we have been very weak in for over a year.  Every other team knows to get at Liverpool you atttack our left back.  Konchesky is a proven defender who will shut the route on more occasions than either Insua and more recently Agger (who is never a full back)

I dont ecpect to see any really great performance for at least 10 games, I just hope that we are still in touching distance of the leaders at that point.  We have to give Roy a chance to get the players playing his way, not 4 or 5 games.

I gave Rafa 3 years of my total support, and then 1 year hoping he would finally learn some lessons about the Premiership.  I fully intend to give Roy the same chance.  Are you?

[Reg]

Thats a key point, in the past for every first team player we bought there was one coming up from the reserves. We've GOT to get back to that scenario, the academy has a very big responsibility to produce kwality.

[only me]

Hmm tough one..As to tactics i have yet to see a real change in the game ,we are playing similair Rafa Tactics counting on pressure to steal balls and score ,we are yet to show any ball control and movement ,we are very reactive in our approach we don't ,yet, dictate tone and pace even against weaker squads. Team spirit for me at last is still shaken and low we really need to show some live and Happy yes Happy football but i guess this is a factor of good results and time. As to players i don't know he did bring Cole and Meirelese but he also signed Aurellio and Concheski and Lucas is playing less which is great. I don't count results at this stage but on the face of it they are all reasonable. I would love to see him put some order in our front line-up i really don't understand ,yet ,what Cole/Kuyt/Yovanovich/Gerrard/Maxi are trying to do when they are on the pitch.

A lot of work needs to be done but that's the heritage our last manager left us and current owners offer us. Good Luck to us ALL.