Progress?

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Postby RedSi35 » Thu May 13, 2010 1:19 pm

stmichael wrote:
kazza wrote:There was definite progress up untill this season so let's not forget the facts, we were actually tipped by many to win it this year afterall. This year was a blip and I will not write off Rafa on this season's performance in light of all that has been going on at the club, it would not be fair. Another bad season?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, I'd rather stay positive.

exactly how i feel.

Actually makes a lot of sense. If Torres had been fit for the whole season it would be interesting to see our position and how we fared.
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Postby taff » Thu May 13, 2010 1:35 pm

I too agree with that sentiment but it has to be said that next season is vital and as much as I love Rafa the club comes first, although it is still up in the air with ownership funds etc.

The foundation of my view is that if everything behind the scenes was tickety boo then it would be nigh on impossible to defend Rafa this season but as that is clearly not the case and hasnt been for a few years then I still believe in my heart that Rafa is the right man
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Postby kazza » Thu May 13, 2010 1:42 pm

RedSi35 wrote:
stmichael wrote:
kazza wrote:There was definite progress up untill this season so let's not forget the facts, we were actually tipped by many to win it this year afterall. This year was a blip and I will not write off Rafa on this season's performance in light of all that has been going on at the club, it would not be fair. Another bad season?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, I'd rather stay positive.

exactly how i feel.

Actually makes a lot of sense. If Torres had been fit for the whole season it would be interesting to see our position and how we fared.

Had we bought Turner at the start of this year may well have made a difference also. Rafa tried to buy him but did not have enough. He pleaded with the owners to give him the extra cash but to no avail. When we lost Martin and Agger at the start we became as shaky at the back as I have ever seen us. By the time we regained our (defensive) composure, we had already lost too many matches, and our way.

What fecks me off is I bet you Hull sold Turner to Sunderland for less than what they wanted from us because it was undisclosed.
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 13, 2010 3:22 pm

And next season the excuse will be........... :D
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Postby tonyeh » Thu May 13, 2010 3:25 pm

"We're 5th in the league...we've progressed since last season!"

I can just hear it now.
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Postby damjan193 » Thu May 13, 2010 4:02 pm

Man we're winning something next season I can feal it :D.
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Postby Ben Patrick » Thu May 13, 2010 4:43 pm

damjan193 wrote:Man we're winning something next season I can feal it :D.

What does feal mean ? :D
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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Postby andy_g » Thu May 13, 2010 5:21 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
damjan193 wrote:Man we're winning something next season I can feal it :D.

What does feal mean ? :D

its an archaic word for faithful. from the old french feeil, or from latin fidelis
Last edited by andy_g on Thu May 13, 2010 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby LFC2007 » Thu May 13, 2010 8:05 pm

The higher points have been higher, the lower ones lower. That's the difference between the two in my eyes. I always held higher hopes that we could make the final step under Rafa, principally because our phenomenal progress in Europe in those first three seasons (combined with his La Liga pedigree, why would we not see a domestic transformation of our own?) but also because we ticked along in the league at a steady rate and successfully rebuilt an aging squad that had been littered with Diaos and Dioufs. With that squad and with the rise of Chelsea, I never thought it reasonable to expect any manager to make serious inroads into our league form initially. But, eventually we did make progress of sorts. In 07/08 we remained in the title race for a little longer than previous seasons before consolidating by making "concrete" progress in 08/09 with a proper title challenge - and though frustrating in the end, we did well; draws against the likes of Hull, Fulham, Wigan and Stoke were balanced out by some unusually good results against the top four sides (if our level was much higher and the manager simply 'flunked' it, I'm a banana). The problem, I think, is that that "concrete" progress masked some serious underlying weaknesses in the squad. The key elements were there; Reina, Agger (Hyypia), Carra, Alonso, Masch, Gerrard, Torres....balanced out wide by decent players in Arbeloa, Aurelio, Riera, Benayoun, and Kuyt - for his productivity alone. Behind that lay a shadow layer; Lucas, Babel, Ngog, Keane, Skrtel (to a lesser extent because he has been known to have been useful), Dossena, Insua, Degen and the like. Susceptible is the word. A loss to the spine - in particular Alonso, and a series of injuries - to Agger, Aurelio, Torres, Gerrard - or an off-season - would leave us with serious problems, and so it proved, and emphatically so. Exacerbated by mismanagement, last season's  "concrete" progress (08/09 I mean here) became woefully exposed. The squad's "normal" level as it were is of course - in my opinion at least - notably higher than 7th place suggests, but not as close to that 2nd place finish would have had us believe. To do an Arsenal perhaps wouldn't have been beyond our means. To do a Man U or a Chelsea with the squad in the state it's in? Do me a lemon.
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 13, 2010 10:41 pm

For me the Rafa years are becoming all to reminiscent of the Houllier years. Both given contracts at inopportune times that we soon came to regret. Both made huge mistakes over strikers with Houllier buying Diouf instead of Anelka,  Rafa with the Keane debacle. Houllier had his new Zidane (Cheyrou) while Rafa has his new Alonso (Aquilani) 

A lot of people seem to forget that we had money problems under Houllier too, he was told to reduce both the size of the squad AND the wage bill, obviously restricting the quality of player he could sign.

Both very stubborn men who seem unable to learn from their mistakes and both of whom made too many mistakes when unfortunately we just haven't the resources (players and money) to overcome them.

I still believe that Rafa is a better manager than Houllier, but its a lot closer than I once thought or wished.

I could go on and on (please do I hear you shout  :D ) but maybe the biggest step backwards we have made has been off the pitch. Hicks and Gilett is something that Houllier never had to cope with, but then Rafa hasn't had Houlliers heart problem either......
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Postby andy_g » Thu May 13, 2010 10:50 pm

s@int wrote:but then Rafa hasn't had Houlliers heart problem either......

maybe he hasn't got one...  :oops:

in defence of benitez, i think the new zidane / new alonso comparison is going a bit far though, saint. at least rafa has never come out and claimed to have found the new alonso, its more what the fans were hoping for rather than what they were promised.
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Postby account deleted by request » Thu May 13, 2010 10:56 pm

andy_g wrote:
s@int wrote:but then Rafa hasn't had Houlliers heart problem either......

maybe he hasn't got one...  :oops:

in defence of benitez, i think the new zidane / new alonso comparison is going a bit far though, saint. at least rafa has never come out and claimed to have found the new alonso, its more what the fans were hoping for rather than what they were promised.

No Rafa said Aquilani will be  better than Alonso, at least Houllier never went quite as far as saying Cheyrou was better than Zidane  :D

Rafa: Aquilani will be better than Alonso

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Postby andy_g » Thu May 13, 2010 11:04 pm

by christ, its true...   :help
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Postby LFC2007 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:38 pm

The headline is misleading.

Rafa: Aquilani will be better than Alonso

"He wants to be in the final third so that he can create chances.

In that respect, playing passes to give the strikers the chance to score, he is better than Alonso."

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Postby damjan193 » Thu May 13, 2010 11:41 pm

Ben Patrick wrote:
damjan193 wrote:Man we're winning something next season I can feal it :D.

What does feal mean ? :D

I'm guessing it's feel then :D
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