Liverpool FC Forum

[GYBS]

in response you have constantly showed yourself to be the most clueless poster on here on many occasions . Messi has a couple of quiet games against chelsea and thats your reasoning ? Torres has had quiet games gerrard has had quiet games fake ronaldo has had a quiet season yet i have seen messi rip defence after defence apart , both for club and country and at present is the fulcrum for the best attacking side in the world and scores and sets up goals for fun for them all season long . Its no surprise that any game he hasnt started for them this season they have struggled a bit . Messi is the most talented and best player in the world and he is still only 22 i think . Suggest you go watch a fair number of barcelona or argentina games . Messi is a player that every single club and manager would want before anyone else if they could afford him .

[bigmick]

And another one bites and another bites and another one bites the dust. Dum, dum dum and another one bites the dust.

I went to bed last night and the thread was just starting to degenerate, and I see the process is now complete.

Anyway back to the subject in hand, I am still very hopeful that Rafa and Xabi will find a way to reconcile their differences.

[NANNY RED]

And another one bites and another bites and another one bites the dust. Dum, dum dum and another one bites the dust.

I went to bed last night and the thread was just starting to degenerate, and I see the process is now complete.

Anyway back to the subject in hand, I am still very hopeful that Rafa and Xabi will find a way to reconcile their differences.

Thank you Michael

[DrPepe]

And another one bites and another bites and another one bites the dust. Dum, dum dum and another one bites the dust.

I went to bed last night and the thread was just starting to degenerate, and I see the process is now complete.

Anyway back to the subject in hand, I am still very hopeful that Rafa and Xabi will find a way to reconcile their differences.

yep

offer him stevie/fernando wages - maybe that's all he wants anyway and has asked his agent to do some stirring...   

[GYBS]

if xabi does want to go i cant see more money being offered persuading him to stay . The only reason i could see the player ever wanting to go is because he wants to go home to spain as mick has suggested . But to madrid ? ! Surely he would of noticed how poor they were against us and when they got a stuffing from barcelona . If there is any club he would want to go to to go home it would be barcelona but then they dont need him . So tell me everything points to him staying and this all seems to have stemed from the usual madrid elections when wannabe presidents announce who they will sign in the run up to elections . Think its time something was done about those announcements and ban them as its a subtle way of tapping up players and its from this that all the xabi to madrid stuff is coming from .

[Sabre]

I guarantee you though..... should Gerrard, Rooney, Lampard, Ferdinand, Carra, Carrick, Terry, Ashley Cole be made available or expressed an interest in leaving England for the continent, there would be no shortage of suitors from those who could afford it.

Sorry to snip your post, I have read it all, but I hate long quotes.

Ferdinand and Carra could walk into many continental teams because for me the English CB are the most solid in the world, and perhaps, if I had to choose the World Class partnership I'd pick two english guys leaving the likes of Vidic aside. Terry, Ferdinand and Carra are as good as you can get, they are not only strong and tough, they also know their job. That's not where English football has problems nowadays, I wish there was such a good level in my country.

Gerrard is world class. Enough said.

But Carrick or Barry? They're good players, but come on.

Manchester United's secret is to have a deadly upfront line, and a very compensated/balanced team, and I'm stealing the words of Xabi now, as he has done an overview of Manchester team today for the Spanish tv, he says it's difficult to find a very weak position in their team, and unfortunately he's right. But he says that the best of that team is upfront, and in the back. They simply have a good midfield, now Scholes has past his best. And I agree that.

Carrick is a tidy player with a certain amount of quality, but just like Barry he's some way off to be best of the best. If they could afford it, the Sevillas and the Atleticos would pay for them, but not the Milans and Barcelonas.

In fact, I wasn't despising the football I admire most in the world -- I come here to talk my cráp english for a reason --, I have great admiration for English football. I disagree with you saying the english player is not exportable. English players do well both in the Beckham, McManaman or Owen level, but also in more humble levels, I remember for instance a certain Samways who played for Tenerife. The English footballer is one of the best proffessionals you can get more often than not.

I wasn't despising your football, just saying that when a pundit considers Carrick and Fletcher better than our Alonso and Mascherano, he has lost the plot completely. As those players, like Barry, are far from being between the top 10 in the position.

I have no problems to admit that Spain hasn't produced a defender with the quality of Terry and Carra in a whole decade. But I have seen lots that could do equal or better than Carrick. I honestly think they're ridiculously overrated because they're english internationals. I think you know when you have on front of you a player that is especial. Take a Gerrard video, take a Dalglish video, and you can feel orgasms watching them playing. When you look at Alonso's videos, while you don't perhaps compare them to the excellency of Gerrard or Dalglish, you can see that his left foot is not dead, that he has an unusual strenght in his kick, and that he has an accurate long ball, which beside provides an easy control due to the curl he gives to the ball. You can see details of quality that are not present in the likes of Barry. Of course Barry is a good player. Of course that if we strenghten well in other positions we can win the league with him, and of course I expect to beat Real Madrid with Alonso with them next season. But considering Barry in the same level of quality of Alonso, or close to him, is something I can't agree.

[Sabre]

BTW, and coming back to the rumours.

I'm still gutted and still angry with Alonso.

I don't know if you agree but I think the correct thing to do is to adopt an O'neill-esque attitude with Alonso. Even if the rumours are true, that would leave Alonso in a position similar to the one of Barry last season. He wanted to leave, but he had to stay, and the manager negotiated hard.

Rafa can't pick the will of Alonso, but Rafa can control what he can do. He must adopt a hard position. I don't want an early agreement in June once Florentino reaches the chairman position. I want an open refusal to sell the player for a reasonable price. If ALonso goes for less than a price that it's ridiculous, that will be Rafa's fault. I think the right thing to do is to do an O'neill.

If they take the bait and pay, we'll buy Arteta for the right, Barry for the middle, Tevez upfront, and Johnson for the RB, and we could still get a good LM. That Liverpool would be a stronger Liverpool than the current one with Alonso.

If they don't take the bait, we keep Alonso. Then I'll demand Alonso the same professionality of this year. I'll remember him that he told the basque fans that his dream is to win the league with Liverpool, and I'll tell him that we're fúcking close to get that. If ALonso doesn't do it for Rafa, it must be for the fans. He owes them that. He can't leave without saying goodbye through the back door. He must stay, win the league, offer it to the Kop, and then yes, go properly if that's his will.

But saying yes to the first Madrid offer? No, no, no, no, no. I want Madrid negotiation well inside July and August, I want Manchester City dropping a silly offer, I want a ruthless Rafa negotiating this situation.

If red whiskey nose pays ridiculous amounts of money for the Hargreaves or for a defender, we can't fool around with the Liverpool assets. The times in which Owen and McManaman left the club with no great money must be over, we're a top european club now. And if you want players from top european clubs you have to sell your kidneys and pay like a bástard.

[JoeTerp]

but Rafa prefers to do his deals quickly. He wants his players in for training camp so he can instill all his plans and ideas early. This means he cannot buy as if he knows he is going to sell because Real will know that it looks like Rafa overcharged the credit card and needs cash badly.  He also wont be happy to let it play out for a long time and then finally cash in and then not have much time to bring in the players he want to replace (who might also raise prices because they know we are desperate to buy and whoever we buy from will have even less time to find their replacement)

I don't want to see Alonso go, but every player has his price (and I think Alonso's is quite high), especially if you do not have (virtually) unlimited funds.

[bigmick]

And if you want players from top european clubs you have to sell your kidneys and pay like a bástard.

Indeed   

In actual fact Sabre makes a very good point here. In my long ramble of a couple of pages back, I said there were four options if you fell out with someone at work. They were have a punch up, get p!ssed together, one of you p!sses off and works somewhere else or they tolerate each other and get on with it.

I didn't really explore the latter option, but clearly Rafa has it within his power to say "b0ll0cks, you ain't going anywhere fella". Now normally managers resist that optiuon simply because the player can simply down tools, ot play sh!t on purpose, not turn up for training and all that mallarkey. I think it's unlikely though that Xabi would do this, and in fairness if we put a prohibitive and unrealistic price on his head, I don't think he'd down tools either.

Those who are slagging off Barry would do well to consider that he is a good pro too, he took the fact he didn't get his dream move in his stride and has performed admirably for Villa since. I've no doubt Xabi would do the same.

So yes I'm all for it, 50 million quid you bunch of c...s, who wants him?

[Sabre]

Yes Joe, I know Rafa a bit too. But Real Madrid are more desperate than us. And when the teams interested, are Madrid and Manchester City you have to forget about your training camp and your options, and be clever.

Real Madrid are desperate to get a team with names. They're not happy with Wenger saying no (credit to the man) and they have extra pressure. They were used to get and buy with arrogance, and now Wenget says them no. Their pride is hurt, and they've announced Alonso is a target. Their level of desperation have some zeros more than ours.

It's time to be ruthless and I won't forgive Rafa an early agreement.

[Ace Ventura]

Sabre 100% agree about Carrick and Barry.

They are good players and could easily play in the top 4 teams as Carrick does but they are by no means the top bracket in their positions.

People get carried away by players at times. I think Carrick and Barry when they played against Alonso and Xavi for their countries showed exactly their level.
No shame in it they are good players, but for supposed technical centre mids they are definately in the bracket below our Xabi and Barca's Xavi.

Typical english press hyping them up though always distorts peoples opinions.

[bigmick]

Carrick and Fletcher being better than Alonso and Masherano was the most embarassing piece of football punditry I've ever heard of. If you added Carrick and Fletcher together, fusing them into one footballer, taking the best bits out of both players (you could call him Fletchick or something) he still would be a mile behind the other two.

Carrick is a better passer than Masherano, and Fletcher runs around more than Xabi. That's about the onloy two aspects of the game in which either are superior.

[GYBS]

players like xavi inesta xabi masher senna pirlo etc are in the top class of centre midfielders despite filling different roles . Would place players like barry carrick in the class of decent prem midfielders , a number of levels below the top class players and nowhere near those others imo . We are lucky we have two of those players and want them both to stay and carry on being the spine for us providing great balance of ball winning and playmaking of the highest ability , replacing one of them with a decent prem midfielder is a step backwards in our development . We must keep our spine and top players and just add to them . I really hope and cant wait till this is all sorted and xabi gets to wear that away shirt he is currently advertising .

[NANNY RED]

But saying yes to the first Madrid offer? No, no, no, no, no. I want Madrid negotiation well inside July and August, I want Manchester City dropping a silly offer, I want a ruthless Rafa negotiating this situation.

Ive told them in my own language Sabes what i think.  Not sure they understood some of it but they will the swear ones, i might have lost a few mates there but feck it,

They are fecking desperate to get there hands on Xabi, Fans an all .bast.ards , i just wish either Xabi or Rafa now comes clean sharpish an puts this one to bed either way once an for all. Just to at least put me out of my misery,

[JoeTerp]

Yes Joe, I know Rafa a bit too. But Real Madrid are more desperate than us. And when the teams interested, are Madrid and Manchester City you have to forget about your training camp and your options, and be clever.

Real Madrid are desperate to get a team with names. They're not happy with Wenger saying no (credit to the man) and they have extra pressure. They were used to get and buy with arrogance, and now Wenget says them no. Their pride is hurt, and they've announced Alonso is a target. Their level of desperation have some zeros more than ours.

It's time to be ruthless and I won't forgive Rafa an early agreement.

if it is true that Real want to "get more Spanish," do you think we could possibly get an even better "value for money" if we wanted to do a player swap deal for a non-Spaniard that they might be keen to depart with and sell for less that their actual value?  Because of the drop in pound, it is going to "seem" more expensive this summer to buy from Europe than it has been recently.  Gago+cash? Sneijder+Cash?  Gago+Sneijder? I would wonder if people think Mascherano-Alonso is too "defensive," what they would think about Gago-Mascherano. Although they did win a gold medal together.