Liverpool FC Forum

[tubby]

Yeah just posted that in the striking options thread. Check out that free kick Nanny.

Also I don't think they can use it as a bargaining tool. They have first option to buy him right? So if they choose not to then we negotiate with Almeira?

[Festy]

Let them use Negredo as a bargain tool if they want to. We can always reduce Xabi's price from 100M to 80M + Negredo.

[heimdall]

If we get a really good amount of money for Xabi then I'd sell him. I'd rather have Barry in the team to be honest. When Xabi is good he's very good but all to often he goes a bit missing and he doesn't give us enough of an attacking edge.

[Bad Bob]

I think we should just calm down and not read too much into too little here.  I think last summer was the most realistic time for Xabi to move on, with Benitez openly courting Barry and listening to offers from the likes of Juve.  The fact that he stayed and went on to have his best season in a red shirt should make it much harder for him to move this season.  Sure, every player has his price but unless absolutely silly money is thrown at us I don't see Rafa looking to move him on.  He's demonstrated how essential he is to our now well established 4-2-3-1 system and I trust Rafa knows that.

[Bad Bob]

If we get a really good amount of money for Xabi then I'd sell him. I'd rather have Barry in the team to be honest. When Xabi is good he's very good but all to often he goes a bit missing and he doesn't give us enough of an attacking edge.

Are you talking this season?  I'm not having that--he's been immense virtually all season.  Just check out how many times .tv has given him MOTM (including yesterday, BTW).  Barry is a pale shadow of Xabi as a player and moving Xabi on to bring Barry in would be a huge step backward.  Strangely, you seem to be endorsing one of the few moves that would actually make Benitez look the mug you sometimes suggest he is. 

[Festy]

If we get a really good amount of money for Xabi then I'd sell him. I'd rather have Barry in the team to be honest. When Xabi is good he's very good but all to often he goes a bit missing and he doesn't give us enough of an attacking edge.

I suppose the last time you saw Xabi was exactly one year ago ? 

[JC_81]

I think we should just calm down and not read too much into too little here.  I think last summer was the most realistic time for Xabi to move on, with Benitez openly courting Barry and listening to offers from the likes of Juve.  The fact that he stayed and went on to have his best season in a red shirt should make it much harder for him to move this season.  Sure, every player has his price but unless absolutely silly money is thrown at us I don't see Rafa looking to move him on.  He's demonstrated how essential he is to our now well established 4-2-3-1 system and I trust Rafa knows that.

Hope you're right Bob.  Fact is though that Benitez could generate 10 mil in funds and directly replace either Mascherano or Alonso with Barry.  Depending on his budget he might be tempted.

Personally I'd rather sell Lucas for 4-5 mil if we could get it and bring in Barry as back-up.  Given the amount of game time Lucas has had this season, if we had had Barry in his place I'm sure it would have been worth a few more points in the league.  Lets not forget Barry is a very very good Premiership player, proven over several seasons.  He's not quite as good as Alonso or Mascherano imo, but not a million miles off.  For 8-9 million I'd take him and keep Alonso and Mascherano.

[Bad Bob]

I think we should just calm down and not read too much into too little here.  I think last summer was the most realistic time for Xabi to move on, with Benitez openly courting Barry and listening to offers from the likes of Juve.  The fact that he stayed and went on to have his best season in a red shirt should make it much harder for him to move this season.  Sure, every player has his price but unless absolutely silly money is thrown at us I don't see Rafa looking to move him on.  He's demonstrated how essential he is to our now well established 4-2-3-1 system and I trust Rafa knows that.

Hope you're right Bob.  Fact is though that Benitez could generate 10 mil in funds and directly replace either Mascherano or Alonso with Barry.  Depending on his budget he might be tempted.

Personally I'd rather sell Lucas for 4-5 mil if we could get it and bring in Barry as back-up.  Given the amount of game time Lucas has had this season, if we had had Barry in his place I'm sure it would have been worth a few more points in the league.  Lets not forget Barry is a very very good Premiership player, proven over several seasons.  He's not quite as good as Alonso or Mascherano imo, but not a million miles off.  For 8-9 million I'd take him and keep Alonso and Mascherano.

John, I understand the temptation if Rafa's been told to sell before he buys.  Maybe he can generate enough cash from one of our existing midfielders to buy Barry AND someone else.  But I just can't see the logic in it.  Our central midfield is sorted and has been for sometime, in all honesty.  Let's stop monkeying with it and address the actual weak areas in the squad.  I said it last summer during the Barry saga and it still holds true--replacing a quality player established in his position with a less quality but still good player in that same position is folly.  But, it will generate needed funds some will say.  It might but I wonder, will the additional funds be enough to secure a really quality wide man, striker or fullback?  It's doubtful.  So, I think we shoot ourselves in the foot if we sell Alonso or Masch and then turn around and spend a chunk of that cash on Barry to replace the player, leaving not enough to buy top quality in other areas of the park.  It's not worth sacrificing Alonso or Masch for Barry and some middle of the road attacking player.

[Sabre]

Which would be your "acceptance threshold" in the price Bad Bob?

The problem I see is that it should be silly money, but as in silly money 50M. Here's some bad news for Liverpool, Alonso has a clause that will give 20% of the money to Real Sociedad his former club, provided that Liverpool make profit with him. That is, if Liverpool gets 14, his former club receives nothing. But if Liverpool gets 20, Liverpool has to pay the 20% of 6 M, 1.2 Mpounds. If the selling was for 30 M, it would be 6M (so would be like 24M for Liverpool) and so on.

Yet another reason for Rafa to think twice, and I hope you're right.

[tubby]

Or another reason for Rafa to demand silly money for him to ensure Rafa still gets the profit he wants.

[Reg]

I hate this thread.   So many pages of bad news, its a shame it went froma  celebration of the lad to non stop speculation that he is to be sold.

[aCe']

Alright... to bring a little objectivity to this thread... Alonsos a very good player... a fan favorite and has a brilliant passing ability and range that are unmatched by many in world football today... That said, i still think that given our formation and the way we go about our play more often than not, hes far from irreplaceable.. If the reports linking us with Barry for around 8mill or so are true. then i expect Rafa to seriously consider a scenario where he sells Alonso for anywhere around 20mill or so and brings in Barry for the 8, having more money to spend in strengthening elsewhere on the pitch... Personally id take Alonso (one of my favorite players in the side) ahead of Barry, Carrick and the likes but id understand the logic behind such a move... There isnt a big difference between the above players in terms of overall contribution to the side, and while we all like Alonso's 40yard passes and his cute little curlers from outside the box, im sure that if hes gone they wont be all that sorely missed. He's been great this season and deserves all the acclaim he is getting, but i think many are over exaggerating his importance to the side.. He is replaceable imo and if having Barry instead of Alonso for next season would mean we have a better chance of getting a world class player in a different position instead of an average player, then im all for that... 

one more thing to add here... We dont have many backup quality players as it is.. i mean sure we have a big squad and all that but the likes of Voronin, Pennant, Elzhar, Leto, Dossena, even Babel and Lucas arent gonna bring in much if sold now are they ? if the reports of us not having much to spend unless we sell are true then im pretty sure we'll have to sell a big name to bring in a few good players.. i mean the 7 players above arent gonna bring in much in terms of transfer fees combined now are they ? around 20-30mill max, and we'd then be thin on backup and needing to go out and buy quantity rather than quality..

[Bad Bob]

Alright... to bring a little objectivity to this thread... Alonsos a very good player... a fan favorite and has a brilliant passing ability and range that are unmatched by many in world football today... That said, i still think that given our formation and the way we go about our play more often than not, hes far from irreplaceable.. If the reports linking us with Barry for around 8mill or so are true. then i expect Rafa to seriously consider a scenario where he sells Alonso for anywhere around 20mill or so and brings in Barry for the 8, having more money to spend in strengthening elsewhere on the pitch... Personally id take Alonso (one of my favorite players in the side) ahead of Barry, Carrick and the likes but id understand the logic behind such a move... There isnt a big difference between the above players in terms of overall contribution to the side, and while we all like Alonso's 40yard passes and his cute little curlers from outside the box, im sure that if hes gone they wont be all that sorely missed. He's been great this season and deserves all the acclaim he is getting, but i think many are over exaggerating his importance to the side.. He is replaceable imo and if having Barry instead of Alonso for next season would mean we have a better chance of getting a world class player in a different position instead of an average player, then im all for that... 

one more thing to add here... We dont have many backup quality players as it is.. i mean sure we have a big squad and all that but the likes of Voronin, Pennant, Elzhar, Leto, Dossena, even Babel and Lucas arent gonna bring in much if sold now are they ? if the reports of us not having much to spend unless we sell are true then im pretty sure we'll have to sell a big name to bring in a few good players.. i mean the 7 players above arent gonna bring in much in terms of transfer fees combined now are they ? around 20-30mill max, and we'd then be thin on backup and needing to go out and buy quantity rather than quality..

aCe' I understand the logic of what you're saying but I'm firmly in the camp of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.  We've talked all year about buying a player or two with a bit more attacking guile to help us break down the park-the-bussers but I would want Rafa and the board to explore every possible option of doing that while still retaining our core nucleus of quality players--which definitely includes Alonso.  I think we run a huge risk of shooting ourselves in the foot if we start swapping out key components of the current title-challenging side in the hopes of generating a bit more cash to spend on others.  It all seems a bit like we're simply robbing Peter to pay Paul and I think it will seriously come back to bite us in the a.rse.  Suppose we ship Alonso out and Barry comes in but fails to settle effectively or dovetail as nicely with the players around him and our form suffers as a result?  We'll be kicking ourselves.  No, for me, if we're so skint that we have to sell a player like Alonso to buy quality in other positions, I'd rather see us not take a punt in the market and go into next season with a settled side, now battle-tested and more prepared to go all out to convert draws into victories against the league's lesser lights.

[aCe']

Alright... to bring a little objectivity to this thread... Alonsos a very good player... a fan favorite and has a brilliant passing ability and range that are unmatched by many in world football today... That said, i still think that given our formation and the way we go about our play more often than not, hes far from irreplaceable.. If the reports linking us with Barry for around 8mill or so are true. then i expect Rafa to seriously consider a scenario where he sells Alonso for anywhere around 20mill or so and brings in Barry for the 8, having more money to spend in strengthening elsewhere on the pitch... Personally id take Alonso (one of my favorite players in the side) ahead of Barry, Carrick and the likes but id understand the logic behind such a move... There isnt a big difference between the above players in terms of overall contribution to the side, and while we all like Alonso's 40yard passes and his cute little curlers from outside the box, im sure that if hes gone they wont be all that sorely missed. He's been great this season and deserves all the acclaim he is getting, but i think many are over exaggerating his importance to the side.. He is replaceable imo and if having Barry instead of Alonso for next season would mean we have a better chance of getting a world class player in a different position instead of an average player, then im all for that... 

one more thing to add here... We dont have many backup quality players as it is.. i mean sure we have a big squad and all that but the likes of Voronin, Pennant, Elzhar, Leto, Dossena, even Babel and Lucas arent gonna bring in much if sold now are they ? if the reports of us not having much to spend unless we sell are true then im pretty sure we'll have to sell a big name to bring in a few good players.. i mean the 7 players above arent gonna bring in much in terms of transfer fees combined now are they ? around 20-30mill max, and we'd then be thin on backup and needing to go out and buy quantity rather than quality..

aCe' I understand the logic of what you're saying but I'm firmly in the camp of 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'.  We've talked all year about buying a player or two with a bit more attacking guile to help us break down the park-the-bussers but I would want Rafa and the board to explore every possible option of doing that while still retaining our core nucleus of quality players--which definitely includes Alonso.  I think we run a huge risk of shooting ourselves in the foot if we start swapping out key components of the current title-challenging side in the hopes of generating a bit more cash to spend on others.  It all seems a bit like we're simply robbing Peter to pay Paul and I think it will seriously come back to bite us in the a.rse.  Suppose we ship Alonso out and Barry comes in but fails to settle effectively or dovetail as nicely with the players around him and our form suffers as a result?  We'll be kicking ourselves.  No, for me, if we're so skint that we have to sell a player like Alonso to buy quality in other positions, I'd rather see us not take a punt in the market and go into next season with a settled side, now battle-tested and more prepared to go all out to convert draws into victories against the league's lesser lights.

makes sense Bob and i'd also rather us go out and do that if thats the case but if history tells us anything its that Rafa likes to change things around when it comes to players and setups every year despite our performances, achievements..etc (Sissoko, Finnan, Gerrard position, formations..etc)

Matter of fact, i'd rather have Mascherano gone than Alonso but then again that still brings us back to what you were saying...

One thing i disagree with in your post though.. unlike you, i dont think we can afford to go into next year with the same squad, the same setup..etc... We've seen what we can do when we play our nice little attacking football and beating the big sides and all that but we're still a couple of players short of whats needed to win the title... I dont know if ill be banned again for saying this but its quite clear to me that the best side in the league usually ends up winning the thing... we've been good in patches..very good indeed...excellent but still find ourselves 6 points behind with not long to go... we've drawn way too many games and im sure next season will pretty much be the same unless we try to address some of the problems we have with our current squad... Players like Kuyt, Benayoun, even Riera are good players who are in form but you cant expect them to perform at such levels consistently... its the difference between a good player and a world class player...

Anyways back to Alonso... id be delighted if hes still a Liverpool  player when all is said and done ... but having to pick between say -Alonso and Kuyt- or -Barry and Silva- i know who i'd go for...

I think our recent form has gotten many into thinking we have the players to go out and win it next year without changing anything... i cant say for certain but i dont believe that will be the case... Chelsea, ManUtd and Arsenal are all going to improve on their already impressive squads and if we dont follow suit im pretty sure we'll lag behind... We dont have a backup forward, dont have a backup rightback, and we could really do with some more flair down the flanks as things stand... if there was ever a time to add quality to an already capable squad then now is the time... all our good work this season will be forgotten if we go into next season, for some reason fail to pick up where we left off and end the season 4th yet again... one world class signing down the final third of the pitch and im a happy man...

[PabloAimar]

xabi alonso has a case for being the most valuable player in the world at the moment. truly irreplaceable.