Cisse vs the rest - Warning - contains statistics

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Postby TheoRacle » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:41 am

Apologies in advance for the use of stats in this post... :rasp

Perhaps a simplistic summary of the 'should we let him go or keep him' argument so far is 'Cisse's useless because he's a one trick pony and has a bad attitude vs. Cisse is still finding his feet after injury etc. etc. and is the leading goal scorer amongst our strikers'.

For what its worth, I tend to agree that Cisse's attitude (on the pitch at least) does leave a lot to be desired however I am happy to overlook this provided he contributes in other ways by converting chances.  I know that Rafa's ethos relies on every player working for the team by tracking back, closing down defenders and chasing apparent lost causes etc. however if there's one position that can be forgiven for not doing this it is the lead striker particularly if he's scoring regularly.  I am sure that if we had a striker who'd already scored 15-18 in the league this season he wouldn't be getting much criticism for not doing these things.

So how then does Cisse rate comparatively with the league's leading strikers in converting chances? Are we being too harsh and not recognising the contribution he has made from the opportunities he's had?

WARNING - STATISTICS AHEAD...

Of course statistics do not consider the arguments of 'ah but Cisse played out of position for so many games' or 'those goals were against pi$$-poor teams' and so on but overall they are the best way IMO to make a comparison and have a sensible discussion based on quantifiable information.

So if you compare Cisse with the performances to date (26JAN06) of Crouch, Drogba, Henry, Morientes, Owen, Van Nistelroy and Yakubu (with Garcia thrown in for good measure) you come up with the following:

Total Goals (all comps)
Equal 1st  Henry and Van Nistelroy on 18
3rd Yakubu on 15
4th Cisse on 14
5th Owen on 12
6th Drogba on 11
Equal 7th Morientes/Crouch/Garcia on 7

Total assists
1st Drogba on 6
2nd Yakubu on 3
Equal 3rd Crouch/Henry/Van Nistelroy on 2
Equal 5th Cisse/Garcia/Morientes and Owen on 1

Total goal Contribution
Henry/Van Nistelroy 20
Yakubu 18
Drogba 17
Cisse 15
Owen 13
Crouch 9
Garcia/Morientes 8

Interestingly, Cisse ranks equal or higher then all other Liverpool players in everything except for assists where big PC beats him by 1 (so much for his 'outstanding link up play' some might say)

Of course these stats can be misleading as each player has played a different amount of games against different teams which of course means different level of opportunity.

Lets then look at some measure of ranking that takes into consideration amount of time played.

Firstly minutes between shots (taken from actual minutes played)
1st Henry 1 shot every 26.3 mins
2nd Crouch 1 shot every 34.2 mins
3rd Van Nistelroy 1 shot every 35.2 mins
4th Cisse 1 shot every 36.6 mins
5th Drogba 1 shot every 37.96 mins
6th Garcia 1 shot every 41.0 mins
7th Morientes 1 shot every 44.6 mins
8th Yakubu 1 shot every 49.8 mins
9th Owen 1 shot every 67.8 mins

Surprisingly (to me anyway) PC ranks 2nd on this table but on reflection this may simply indicate the kind of service provided to each striker by their respective teams.  Not surprisingly, Liverpool, Chelsea Man Utd and Arsenal are leading the league in shots per game and this has a key correlation to the dominance of their respective midfields and possession held. You've got feel sorry and at the same time be impressed by Owen's 1 shot every 67 minutes which has still returned a healthy personal tally of 12 goals. What he'd give for some decent service! - but that's another topic.

This then leads me to discuss the accuracy of those shots and conversion rates. As some have said before on these boards -it's no good saying a player (or team) has had 50 shots if 45 of them were from the half way line and had no hope of going in!

Firstly then a general overview of accuracy with the percentage of shots on target:

1st Owen with 82.35%
2nd Yakubu with 69.77%
3rd Van Nistelroy with 64.86%
4th Morientes with 62.22%
5th Henry with 54.32%
6th Drogba with 48.94%
7th Garcia with 48.08%
8th Crouch with 45.16%
9th Cisse with 42.59%

The interpretation of these stats is up for debate... does it reflect the style of play of the individual's team ie Owen only gets a through ball resulting in a one on one with the keeper whereas Henry will shoot at any opportunity and from a much wider range of positions resulting in more wayward or blocked shots?  Or does it really show that Crouch and Cisse couldn't hit a cows ar$e with a banjo?

Finally, conversion rate: Just how good is the striker at putting away his chances? I tried to think of what would affect the outcome of this stat and came up the quality of the initial ball, the quality of the opposition keeper and the style of play of the team (eg goals from open play or from set pieces). Anyway, here are the stats..

1st Owen converts 70.59% of shots
2nd Yakubu converts 34.88% of shots
3rd Cisse converts 25.93% of shots
4th Van Nistelroy converts 24.32% of shots
5th Drogba converts 23.40% of shots
6th Henry converts 22.22% of shots
7th Morientes converts 15.56% of shots
8th Garcia converts 13.46% of shots
9th Crouch converts 11.29% of shots

If you dismiss that Owen has not played many games (1152 minutes vs the average for this lot of 2008 mins) he still has an absolutely unbelievable conversion rate where he'll score 7 goals from every 10 shots! To throw the cat amongst the pigeons - Cisse comes in 3rd with  one goal every 4 shots.  I was staggered by this stat to be honest and had to recheck my figures but they are correct at least according to ESPN who show him as scoring 14 goals from 54 shots in all comps.

So what conclusion can be drawn from all this. Buggered if I know to be honest but I'll have a stab at it..

Firstly, I'll take a fit and firing Owen any day of the week - thank you very much! Secondly and more importantly, none of our strikers are really failing badly. Cisse's conversion rate hints at the potential he has. Perhaps more playing time in his preferred position will result in more confidence and lessen his desire to blast away as soon as he gets the ball.  Maybe this will result in an improvement in the amount of shots he gets on target and more goals? Morientes % of shots on target and % conversion rate also hint at the man's underlying class and quality. You can see it's there desperately trying to get out and take the EPL by storm but again confidence and fitness (the bane of all strikers it seems) seem to be holding Morientes back.  Crouch's stats show that he is both getting into position and getting the service to allow him to get a shot away but his frame and style of play do not lend themselves to accuracy and conversion it would seem.  A bit of heading practice would certainly not go astray as I'm sure there have been a few headers missed so far this season where we've all issued a collective sigh of disbelief and disappointment.

Where to from here is again a difficult question. Perhaps a good solid run for one striker with no rotation would help but who do you pick as the most likely to benefit? Ultimately that's Rafa's problem but as supporters, there is certainly something we can do. That is to (perhaps) get off Cisse's back! Sure he missed a sitter (and against the Scum of all people) but in hindsight every one of these strikers has missed their share of sitters too.  The stats show or can be used to show that Cisse is not demonstrably worse that any of our other strikers in fact he's leading the line in certain areas yet he seems to get more than his share of criticism.  As the transfer window closes it likely that we'll not have a new player (or scapegoat as the case may be) to shoulder the burden so we might as well get behind what we've got and give them every chance being a success both personally and for the team.
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Postby darwisigila » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:26 am

before crouch scored his first goal, rafa very supportive to him. He always praised crouch contributions to the team and happy with that but he will more happy if crouch can score. My point is, rafa don rate his striker through his goals scored but his overall contributions to the team. Yes cisse does score goals but why people still off his back??

Coz he's a passenger in our team right now...his quality is not enough for him to wear our red shirt..hope rafa sell him next summer to magpies.
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Postby babu » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:03 am

Good post TheOracle.

I have to interpret stats all day long and I have come to the conclusion that statistics, even when used properly need to be taken with a grain of salt.

I have a few questions:
1) I assume you have only compiled stats on players that play in a strikers position. Did you remmber to take away all the stats relating to Garcia and even cisse when they where played in a non-striker role? becuase if you didn't think for comparisons sake you must include Gerrard's stats.

your quote
'Interestly, Cisse ranks equal or higher then all other liverpool players in everything except assists....'

2)Don't you mean all other Liverpool strikers? because if you mean all liverpool players then Gerrard once again must feature, even Hyypia

3) Your ranking according to time played. again for consistancy did you take out the stats where cisse and garcia where not playing in a striker's position?

4) as you said in the begining there are other aspects of cisse game that are upset a lot of folk. You have concentrated on providing stats relating to goal scoring. I believe there should be others to indicate goal scoring. off the top of my head, these are:
i. Number of times disposed in the box
ii. Number of times ball is given away in the opponents half
iii. I don't how you would do this one, but 'being in the right place at the right time'

I reckon you have to also consider how many times with the correct attitude, position and first touch, goals could have been scored ie how many good oppurtunites wasted - > Cisse would not come out smelling like roses in that one.

anyway great read with interesting conclusions. thx :)
Last edited by babu on Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheoRacle » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:17 am

All good points Babu but unfortunately the answer in most cases is yes I did consider the issue but no I didn't adjust stats to reflect the issue.  For example I couldnt figure out a way (without trawling through individual game logs) to accurately account for the moment in time when Cisse switched positions from striker to RW etc or if that point could be identified were his shots taken before or after the switch? And yes. the "all other Liverpool players" reference refers to only those ranked in this analysis.

Littered with typical amateur statistical errors I know but you get the gist...
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Postby babu » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:26 am

Yeah I did get the gist. And thanks for the effort. I was a little surprised how well cisse features in these rankings, but alas that will not save him, IMO. might be useful to get a decent price for him howver. :D
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Postby 2520years » Fri Jan 27, 2006 9:53 am

Good post TheoRacle.  I can't believe;
1) how high Owen's conversion rate is
2) Cisse's conversion rate is higher than Henry's
3) Horse's Head's rate is so low (when all his shots are virtually from standing on the line!)

Maybe I'll cut Cisse more slack from now on...although I stick to the fact that he was atrocious on Sunday.
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Postby Ola Mr Benitez » Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:28 am

Great post Theo.. I love reading through stats..

It shows what an absolute gem of a player Michael Owen is.. For me he is the player we need back at Anfield,  his only problem appears to be how injury prone he is which can destroy a players, and therefore a teams, season.

Worth every penny of the 18 million Newcastle paid for him.
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Postby 66-1137139704 » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:43 pm

now where are the cisse haters at  ???
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Postby 66-1137139704 » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:46 pm

these stats also show yakubu would be a great buy
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Postby darwisigila » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:30 am

stats hater and cisse haters...............
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Postby darwisigila » Sat Jan 28, 2006 4:32 am

cisse a mile better than yakubu......:D
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Postby A.B. » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:42 am

Actually I'd say the opposite. Yakubu is more prolific, he's scored goals for Pompey and Boro. Not a lot of quality service but can find the back of the net.

Strong on the ball, has composure, good shot on him, more intelligent than Cisse.
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Postby darwisigila » Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:51 pm

only mudface says cisse is better........
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Postby Everton Killa » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:50 pm

cisse is much better the yakubu man no doubt
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Postby A.B. » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:57 pm

Why? Is it because Yakubu plays for Boro and Cisse for LFC? Yakubu has been prolific in the past two seasons at lower teams in the Premiership. Cisse hasn't shown in any of the games he's played that suggest that he's better than Yakubu. Yakubu has scored 12 PREMIERSHIP goals in 20-22 games. That's one hell of a record for somebody whose playing in a :censored: poor side.

And he's done the same for Pompey as well.

Yakubu has more intelligence on the ball than Cisse and also posses more strength. He's more skillful, has a better shot and more accurate.
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