Liverpool FC Forum

[adamnbarrett]

I know a few weeks ago there was some debate on here and on other forums whether Xabi should keep his place in the team or was Mascherano the best man for the job.

I was always a supporter of Alonso, not just because I like him as a player and what he does but because of what he offers the team. For me, I think some people don't actually realise what he actually does for the team. He is not only a class player but he's got a great attitude aswell e.g. his urgency, against Benfica particularly when we had no chance of winning the game but he was subbed and raced off the pitch to give us a bit more time.

Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT having a go at Mascherano because I think the last few games he's played he's probably been one of our best players if not the best. He's also got a great work rate and attitude.

But...

I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again. Xabi Alonso is crucial to our success. There have been many games and the one against Birmingham today that showed when he misses a game against certain teams he is missed.

Today our wingers did not perform, forcing us to play the ball through the middle. Now mascherano is a great player but he is a very safe player who plays safe passes to keep the ball. He does his job and does it well but he does not have the creativity of Alonso.

When we are forced to play the ball down the middle of the pitch and we have Gerrard and Mascherano in the middle, Mascherano will sit deep and not create, forcing Gerrard to do both his job and the job Alonso would do so this restricts Steven Gerrard. Also the opposition will see that Mascherano will not be creative and not venture forward much so they will leave him unmarked and force an extra man to mark Gerrard. If Gerrard is cut off by two players and he is our only creative player in the middle then he cannot create therefore this cuts the supply to our strikers leading to us not creating chances like today.

With Gerrard and Alonso in the midfield we have two creative players so the opposition is stretched more and we create more chances.

Now, alot has been said that we have a player to cover for a player that is injured in every position. We may have that but it doesn't mean they will do the same job. Mascherano offers something different to Alonso and vice-versa.

Alonso will get forward, get shots in, spread the ball around with 40 yard passes and create chances. Mascherano will break up the play and play a simple ball and not take many chances like Alonso does.

If there is an opposition team that is not offering much offensively then Alonso will break forward and his creativity along with Gerrard's would create us chances. Mascherano sits deep no matter what the other team is doing.

This leads me onto the main point of this post....

Many people don't actually realise what he does for the team. I can see Alonso being missed hugely over the next 6 weeks or so.

[account deleted by request]

I understand what you are saying Adam but be honest did Alonso solve the problem against Portsmouth? Easy to blame one player or build up a player when he's not on the pitch (see Torres , Kewell, Gerrard etc) but its a team game. I don't think Alonso would have made much difference today. We needed more creativity up the field not in our own half.

Masherano was the player who squared the ball to Gerrard against Porto in our one good move of the second half (he does get forward)

[Leonmc0708]

A game like today, with the opposition sitting ten behind the ball is made for Xabi.

We will miss him, especially in these kind of games.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Alonso and Agger both make a big difference in games like these, players who can play make from deep are invaluable when teams camp out in their own half.

Mascherano and Gerrard are both good players but neither can do what Alonso can do.

[account deleted by request]

A game like today, with the opposition sitting ten behind the ball is made for Xabi.

We will miss him, especially in these kind of games.

You mean like Portsmouth did for most of the game?

I like Alonso but his main asset is not creativity, its great passing and spreading the play, we needed more creativity up front the last three games, players making runs and creating space, not forwards dropping deep. We are becoming very predictable in our play, and too dependent on wing play.

I still say we need a creative second striker which almost all great teams have had.

StJohn, Dalglish, Beardsley, Bergkamp, York, Cantona.

Chelsea haven't had one since Zola, but they ground out results anyway, but even so Gudjohson did a job for them.

[LittleHobo]

i agree to an extent

i do believe his all round game hasnt improved since he came which i find worrying but his long range shooting and his ball retention are good things to have

i know gerrard doesnt like the right wing but mascherano and alonso in centre mid sounds good to me

[ConnO'var]

A game like today, with the opposition sitting ten behind the ball is made for Xabi.

We will miss him, especially in these kind of games.

You mean like Portsmouth did for most of the game?

I like Alonso but his main asset is not creativity, its great passing and spreading the play, we needed more creativity up front the last three games, players making runs and creating space, not forwards dropping deep. We are becoming very predictable in our play, and too dependent on wing play.

I still say we need a creative second striker which almost all great teams have had.

StJohn, Dalglish, Beardsley, Bergkamp, York, Cantona.

Chelsea haven't had one since Zola, but they ground out results anyway, but even so Gudjohson did a job for them.

Deffo agree with this......

Alonso is a fabulous player but him not being there is less of an issue as the fact that agger isn't around.....

I love Sammi to bits and all he's done for us over the years... but this these days, his long hoofs up the field is doing us more harm than good in the attacking aspect of our play.

Would have been nice to have gotten someone like Tevez to partner Torres...

That partnership would have been like TnT ( )..... dynamite IMO.

[Fowler_E7]

I agree with Adam 100% on this one. I like Mascherano but i dont beleive he has all the allround quality of Alonso. When Xabi's not in the team we lack creativity from  the centre of the pitch. He can speed up the tempo when needed, spread the play and make some great balls. This type of thing is needed against teams who are going to come to anfield and shut up shop and defend the whole 90 mins.

Mascherano lacks the creative skills to make chances for others, so when the wide men are not getting much joy like yesterday, the responsibilty falls to Gerrard to create something, which is fine normally, but if he's not having a great game we lack ideas.

[Sabre]

I agree with Adam 100% on this one. I like Mascherano but i dont beleive he has all the allround quality of Alonso. When Xabi's not in the team we lack creativity from  the centre of the pitch. He can speed up the tempo when needed, spread the play and make some great balls. This type of thing is needed against teams who are going to come to anfield and shut up shop and defend the whole 90 mins.

Mascherano lacks the creative skills to make chances for others, so when the wide men are not getting much joy like yesterday, the responsibilty falls to Gerrard to create something, which is fine normally, but if he's not having a great game we lack ideas.

Mascherano did more than a good game yesterday and did enough to cut any counter attempt of Birmingham. I lost the count of good tackles he did.

I rate Alonso as many know, but I want say a bad word of Mascherano because he doesn't deserve those. When I read some months ago that Alonso had some bad passes I cringed, because I know no holding midfielder that does not mistakes through out a game. That's why I don't buy neither that Mascherano did a bad game just because he failed some difficult passes.

Adam is right giving the credit Alonso deserves. But let's not do with Mascherano the same thing we did with Alonso, praise him massively first, then criticise him for no reason. Not that any of you have done that, but I can see it happening especially if the team doesn't get the expected results.

We have a great midfield. Probably the best of the world. Just as I think Barcelona has a better upfront line with Eto'o, Henry, Messi, Giovani and the likes, I think our midfield is stronger than them. Each of our players in the midfield have attributes that are handy, and there's no point in discussing too much who's better. They're all good.

[Fowler_E7]

I agree with Adam 100% on this one. I like Mascherano but i dont beleive he has all the allround quality of Alonso. When Xabi's not in the team we lack creativity from  the centre of the pitch. He can speed up the tempo when needed, spread the play and make some great balls. This type of thing is needed against teams who are going to come to anfield and shut up shop and defend the whole 90 mins.

Mascherano lacks the creative skills to make chances for others, so when the wide men are not getting much joy like yesterday, the responsibilty falls to Gerrard to create something, which is fine normally, but if he's not having a great game we lack ideas.

Mascherano did more than a good game yesterday and did enough to cut any counter attempt of Birmingham. I lost the count of good tackles he did.

I rate Alonso as many know, but I want say a bad word of Mascherano because he doesn't deserve those. When I read some months ago that Alonso had some bad passes I cringed, because I know no holding midfielder that does not mistakes through out a game. That's why I don't buy neither that Mascherano did a bad game just because he failed some difficult passes.

Adam is right giving the credit Alonso deserves. But let's not do with Mascherano the same thing we did with Alonso, praise him massively first, then criticise him for no reason. Not that any of you have done that, but I can see it happening especially if the team doesn't get the expected results.

We have a great midfield. Probably the best of the world. Just as I think Barcelona has a better upfront line with Eto'o, Henry, Messi, Giovani and the likes, I think our midfield is stronger than them. Each of our players in the midfield have attributes that are handy, and there's no point in discussing too much who's better. They're all good.

I also thought that Mascherano had a decent game yesterday, and to be honest i dont think he's had a bad game for us since he joined, but no matter how many tackles or succesful short passes he makes he dosnt have Alonso's creative ability IMO, which we need in games like yesterdays when the opposition sit back and defend deep.

[hello_red]

Every team needs a play maker the guy that starts the attack. Masha is a tackler a passer, Gerrad is a battler and danger man around the box. Xabi is our play maker stes thing in motion. most important player along with Gerrard i would fear, gurantee that we would not of drawn aganst Birmingham with Xabi in the side. Hence Rafa being worried about his injury, as am i!

[AB's Red Army]

Sometimes you don't truly value something unless it's gone, for the time being this can be applied to Xabi.

People have taken him for granted.

[mattylfc]

I know a few weeks ago there was some debate on here and on other forums whether Xabi should keep his place in the team or was Mascherano the best man for the job.

I was always a supporter of Alonso, not just because I like him as a player and what he does but because of what he offers the team. For me, I think some people don't actually realise what he actually does for the team. He is not only a class player but he's got a great attitude aswell e.g. his urgency, against Benfica particularly when we had no chance of winning the game but he was subbed and raced off the pitch to give us a bit more time.

Now don't get me wrong, I am NOT having a go at Mascherano because I think the last few games he's played he's probably been one of our best players if not the best. He's also got a great work rate and attitude.

But...

I've mentioned this before and I'll mention it again. Xabi Alonso is crucial to our success. There have been many games and the one against Birmingham today that showed when he misses a game against certain teams he is missed.

Today our wingers did not perform, forcing us to play the ball through the middle. Now mascherano is a great player but he is a very safe player who plays safe passes to keep the ball. He does his job and does it well but he does not have the creativity of Alonso.

When we are forced to play the ball down the middle of the pitch and we have Gerrard and Mascherano in the middle, Mascherano will sit deep and not create, forcing Gerrard to do both his job and the job Alonso would do so this restricts Steven Gerrard. Also the opposition will see that Mascherano will not be creative and not venture forward much so they will leave him unmarked and force an extra man to mark Gerrard. If Gerrard is cut off by two players and he is our only creative player in the middle then he cannot create therefore this cuts the supply to our strikers leading to us not creating chances like today.

With Gerrard and Alonso in the midfield we have two creative players so the opposition is stretched more and we create more chances.

Now, alot has been said that we have a player to cover for a player that is injured in every position. We may have that but it doesn't mean they will do the same job. Mascherano offers something different to Alonso and vice-versa.

Alonso will get forward, get shots in, spread the ball around with 40 yard passes and create chances. Mascherano will break up the play and play a simple ball and not take many chances like Alonso does.

If there is an opposition team that is not offering much offensively then Alonso will break forward and his creativity along with Gerrard's would create us chances. Mascherano sits deep no matter what the other team is doing.

This leads me onto the main point of this post....

Many people don't actually realise what he does for the team. I can see Alonso being missed hugely over the next 6 weeks or so.

Good post mate, Completely agree. I touched on Alonso in another thread without seeing this.

This game was ideal for Alonso. He allows us to play at a higher tempo and more importantly he stretches teams from left to right meaning that they constantly have to adjust their positioning meaning that there is more chance that they become unstuck.

I know what you are saying Sabre and i dont think anyone has had a go at Masch. It has just been mentioned that Masch is a great ball winner and great at passing the ball on to the likes of Gerrard but he will never be a player who will unlock a defense with a sublime pass like Alonso and doesnt control the tempo of the game like Alonso can.

They are completely different players who are equally important to the team, it is just a shame that Alonso wasnt fit for a game in which we needed him the most.

[stmichael]

class player but has been sopmewhere below his best for 18 months now.

he seems to play better when gerrard isn't in the side because it means he has to take more responsibility.

[Lando_Griffin]

Adam has it spot on. Simple as that.

The fact is, we'd be at our strongest with Alonso AND Mascher in midfield, with Gerrard in the roaming role.

"Oh, but then you take away Gerrard's main strengths, blah, blah, blah!"

No you f*cking don't.

Stevie has had his favoured role for the past season and a bit, and, not to put too fine a point on it, he's beeen utter W*nk by his own standards. What was it last season - 4 goals?

How about the season before, when he played the free role and the right wing - 23 was it? And which season did we get our highest ever points total in the Premiership? That same season, was it?

How's he playing this year, alongside the supposedly superior Mascher? Good is it? Is he the World beater we saw in 2005-06? Or is he looking disinterested, overrun and basically out of the game entirely?

That's what I thought...

Listen up - cos I'm sick and tired of telling you this:

The "Alonso can't play with Gerrard" sh*te is clearly a myth propagated by a bunch of twonks who didn't like the fact Stevie was playing anywhere but central midfield to "accomodate the nasty Spanish man". (This is despite the fact that we got better results, and Gerrard won player of the year playing rw and am).

You know? A lot of folks on here bang on about not ignoring the facts, and this, that and the other.

Well THEM'S the facts, people. The fact that without Xabi, we're a shadow of the side we can be. I'm not saying it's soley due to his absence, but let's be honest - if "We would have won if Torres had started", then surely this is also a valid statement?

Every time Xabi has been out of the side for any length of time we've struggled. We've missed him more than any other player in our side, including our Captain Fantastic.

You wanted the facts, Newkit - you got them.

Read 'em and weep.