Liverpool FC Forum

[redtrader74]

If had a better english I would have written Rafa Dodd's post exactly.

I agree with him totally. He's some sort of a sand bag. Made mistakes, but not as important as Arbeloa's, Agger's mistakes yesterday. Hence, I don't understand the stick.

I do understand there might be better options, but that's Rafa's decission.

The point is that Agger and Arbeloas error were down to the opposition doing well against them, maybe they are not good enough, but nobody stopped Bolo putting the ball in properly.

[Geo]

Zenden should not be made scapegoat. He played to his ability which is not up for this level. I think we should be more worried about players that played below par (e.g. Alonso), those players will be the reason for us winning next week. I agree with others on the boards that say Rafas tactics and lineup were wrong, i believe crouch and pennant should of been starting. However Rafa rarely gets it wrong, and im positive next week he'll be spot on.

[stmichael]

I was also one of the people that groaned when i seen his name but with Finnan being injured then there wasnt really another option. Gonzalez is a liability and has shown no sign that he could play in a game as big as that.

Exactly.

Zenden was the right selection for the game in the circumstances. Gonzalez has the defensive characteristics of a Split Durex.

[tubby]

Gonzalez has the defensive characteristics of a Split Durex.

[Ace Ventura]

If had a better english I would have written Rafa Dodd's post exactly.

I agree with him totally. He's some sort of a sand bag. Made mistakes, but not as important as Arbeloa's, Agger's mistakes yesterday. Hence, I don't understand the stick.

I do understand there might be better options, but that's Rafa's decission.

The point is that Agger and Arbeloas error were down to the opposition doing well against them, maybe they are not good enough, but nobody stopped Bolo putting the ball in properly.

So when he picks the ball up in a decent position he looks accross and sees Terry Carvalho and Cole, with Bellamy at the far post and Kuyt not even in the area most of the time where do you suggest he crosses it ?
He picked Gerrard out and Kuyt both should of done better.

[duk]

If had a better english I would have written Rafa Dodd's post exactly.

I agree with him totally. He's some sort of a sand bag. Made mistakes, but not as important as Arbeloa's, Agger's mistakes yesterday. Hence, I don't understand the stick.

I do understand there might be better options, but that's Rafa's decission.

The point is that Agger and Arbeloas error were down to the opposition doing well against them, maybe they are not good enough, but nobody stopped Bolo putting the ball in properly.

So when he picks the ball up in a decent position he looks accross and sees Terry Carvalho and Cole, with Bellamy at the far post and Kuyt not even in the area most of the time where do you suggest he crosses it ?
He picked Gerrard out and Kuyt both should of done better.

I agree totally with this what ever Zenden did produce was never attacked mainly because there was no one there to attack it.

[Bad Bob]

Zenden's a very easy whipping boy because he's clearly not the standard of player we need if we want to challenge for the title, especially out wide.

Having said that, he was the right option given the circumstances yesterday.  Gonzales is not up to a game of this stature.  And, lest people forget, Rafa played Gerrard on the left at Stamford Bridge earlier in the season to a chorus of "WTF"s and "pull your finger out gaffer!"  So, turning around now and saying Gerrard would have been a better option--even if he would have been --smacks of a little monday morning quarterbacking (to borrow a N. American phrase).

On the positive side, there were times yesterday when Zenden did quite well to create something against Ferreira.  There were, as some have pointed out, at least a couple of useful crosses put in.  He was also tidy on the ball, kept possession decently and tracked back.  So, he was useful in keeping the shape and moving the attack upfield.

On the negative, he got charged down by Ferreira far too often (another throw in?) and this caused him to check back onto his right foot a lot more as the game went on, to little effect.  I was really frustrated with his angled run to the byline, though.  He'd gotten in behind and needed to put a decent ball into the box but the defender caught him up and the ball went out for a corner.  He was complaining to the strikers that he had no one to cross to but Crouch had made a late but effective near post run.  He didn't anticipate that...he was waiting for the player to get open rather than playing the ball to the right space and expecting them to get open in time to do something with it.

So, part of the frustration with him is that he was the player that saw the most of the ball for us and yet didn't manage to do much with it.  It's kind of like Momo against Boro--because of the formation and because of who else in a red shirt the defenders were intent on marking out of the game, Sissoko got a lot of the ball in dangerous areas and did little with it, producing a torrent of frustration-fueled abuse from fans (including me).

Personally, I don't think Zenden had a shocker but nor was he great.  I hope that there are better options at LM for the return leg and I hope he's off to pastures new next season but I'll give him credit for having a go yesterday.  Who knows, he may play a pivotal role yet, though.  How many people were excited when Vladi Smicer came on for Kewell in Istanbul?

[Owzat]

Zenen is rubbish period. He was good at Barca but cant cut it at the level now. I thought he was ok at Boro but then he was in the centre and there is no way he could have that position here.

He gives the ball away too much and I dont think he got past his defender once yesterday. If Zenden is the best we can muster on the left them im afraid this tie is over.

Can't disagree with that. He is an ordinary player and should be playing for an ordinary club. I would have gone with Gonzalez, the trouble is if you don't get supply to your strikers then you could have six and still won't score.

[jeff capes]

benitez played zenden knowing that if we lost zenden  will get the blame, rather than any focus on benitez being .

when chelsea mess up the blame is always firmly on moronio because he has big name players there.

we will never have the sort of players chelsea have without racking up debts. i've look on forbes americas 400 richest.the last dude has 1 billion which  in pounds is £ 500 million. i don't see our people anywhere on that list. another great job done by our former board to turn away 12 billion and get in a couple of losers.

[LFC #1]

benitez played zenden knowing that if we lost zenden  will get the blame, rather than any focus on benitez being .

when chelsea mess up the blame is always firmly on moronio because he has big name players there.

we will never have the sort of players chelsea have without racking up debts. i've look on forbes americas 400 richest.the last dude has 1 billion which  in pounds is £ 500 million. i don't see our people anywhere on that list. another great job done by our former board to turn away 12 billion and get in a couple of losers.

Please tell me you are on a wind up or on day release? Their is no other logical explanation for your posts. 

[destro]

benitez played zenden knowing that if we lost zenden  will get the blame, rather than any focus on benitez being .

when chelsea mess up the blame is always firmly on moronio because he has big name players there.

we will never have the sort of players chelsea have without racking up debts. i've look on forbes americas 400 richest.the last dude has 1 billion which  in pounds is £ 500 million. i don't see our people anywhere on that list. another great job done by our former board to turn away 12 billion and get in a couple of losers.

Are you still here, surely internet access is limited in that special place where you reside 

[jonnymac1979]

Last night when I heard the team I will admit I was not that impressed that Zenden got the nod. I expected Riise at left midfield and Arbeloa to fill in, in the left back spot again.

However the neck injury to Finnan prevented this and it means the only options for the left side of midfield was Zenden or Mark Gonzalez. And I think Rafa made the correct decision in putting Bolo in. Mark Gonzalez has struggled all season and to throw him in at the deep end against Chelsea in a semi final of the European Cup may just of been too big of occasion for him. Also he's played a lot more frequent than Bolo and has performed well below what is expected when you pull on that red shirt. Bolo was the best choice in my opinion. He has the experience of playing at the highest level and I feel he is a better option than Mark at present. Mark can develop, he has shown a great deal of potential in La Liga but has not delievered as of yet.

I felt last night Bolo played ok. He did not worse or better than any of the other outfield players. He was obviously told to go after Ferriera and he did that all game. He tried to take him on and general succeeded. If we were going to get a goal it was going to come from the left and from Zenden. My only slight negative on him was nearer the end of the game, he had a tendancy to cut in a lot more and the crossing was not quite the same standard. However he seems to be getting a bashing on here and people are making him the scapegoat for a very average team performance and I can't understand why.

He signed for us on a free transfer from Boro. I don't think Rafa ever had any major plans for him apart from a squad player. He sustained a very serious knee injury and was out practically all of the first season and this was his first real season as a Liverpool player. He started the curtain raiser at Cardiff and was arguably the best player on the park, some compliment when you consider Gerrard, Lampard, Ballack, Alonso etc was playing. He then started the next game at Sheffied United and did not have a great game and I think it was this one game that has earned him the tag as scapegoat. He got lambasted that game when many players failed to perform and the tag has stuck with him all season.

I am not saying he's perfect. He's far from it. He was bought as a squad player and his ability means he will never be anything more than that at Liverpool. However I feel he is unfairly victimised when the team plays poorly just because he aint a first teamer. If I was Zenden I wouldn't be pleased.

Agree with pretty much all of that.  I think we all know Zenden isn't the best player in our squad and he has taken stick on here.  But as far as I'm concerned last night, he wasn't really any worse than anyone else on the pitch.  It wasn't the best performance by the Reds, but to thrash Zenden isn't really fair, just because he's the usual scapegoat.  He did indeed go at Ferreira with venom as in my opinion, he is Chelsea's weakest defender, there is something that just doesn't sit comfortable with him and he always looks like he can be 'got' at.  If I know this, Rafa most certainly does, and it didn't surprise me to see Zenden going at Ferreira and attacking him.  I think Gonzales still looks out of his depth and hasn't adjusted yet.  Last night as an occasion would have no doubt got the better of him and I agreed with picking Zenden ahead of him due to the re-shuffling of the eleven because of Finnan's injury.  I would have picked him over Gonzales 10 times out of 10 (the only surprise for me about last night's team was Crouch being dropped). 

Laughably, one tabloid said that Ferreira had Zenden in his pocket.  Not what I saw.  But that's tabloids for you.  Not worth anything and all Chelsea and United lovers.

Zendens overall contribution wasn't bad, but his crosses were very frustrating though once he had done the hard part of getting into position to actually get the ball into the danger area.  His crosses hardly ever beat the first man, usually Carvalho or Terry or if they did, they were overhit straight to Ashley Cole.

Also, going back to the Charity Shield, I too thought he had a blinder and shone in a midfield containing Ballack, Lampard and Gerrard.

I'm cutting Zenden some slack today.

Going to be one TOUGH game next week.  No reason why we shouldn't be confident though.

[stmichael]

he still must be the worst ever footballer with a "Z" in his name though.

[Big Niall]

Zenden is terrible. Has not the ability a LFC player should have. Arebola had a terrible game too - really shows what a great full back Finnan is. Alonso was poor too (has been below his standards for much of the season).

I thought Rafa started negatively and if we had gone at chelsea I think we could have beaten them. A bit more confidence from Rafa would have sent the right message, Manure have many rubbish players in their team at the moment but they go at the opposition from the start as Ferguson has always believed that.

[Rafa D]

Manure have many rubbish players in their team at the moment but they go at the opposition from the start as Ferguson has always believed that.

Thats that mate.