Liverpool FC Forum

[chrisrafman]

I dont think you can take into account the spending of any of the top four since Rafa has arrived as all teams have been at different stages.

When Rafa first arrived both Arsenal and Man United had teams that had already won the Premier League and therefore they were adding players which were going to make the first eleven even stronger. Both Liverpool and Chelsea needed completly rebuilding but in Chelseas case they had Abramovich as an owner which allowed them to spend stupid amounts of money to make the team into Premier League champions.

The net spend argument thrown at Rafa is complete b#llocks because if you look at the reasons above then you will understand why Rafa has needed to spend as much cash as he has and in my personal view he hasnt been able to spend enough.

Our most expensive keeper, defender, midfielder and forward have all be signed by Benitez.

150 million plus spent in just under four years.

5 players of ten million or more bought...none sold for more than ten million or more.

Hardly bringing in the same sort of money he's spending.

I never see the money arguement as valid because of so many other clubs who seem to do fine without spending as much or teams who do worse despite spending more. You can't just have it as an excuse for us. I've been criticsed for using premiership teams as an example to prove this point, so I'll drop a division and use the Championship. Bristol City and Stoke are the top two in the Championship and neither are blessed with fortune. Whereas West Brom are fourth despite being on of the highest spenders outside of the Prem. QPR are not even in the playoffs and that's with them being owned by a man RICHER THAN AMBROVICH AND GIVING THEM AS MUCH MONEY AS NEEDED.

SO again I will ask the question and wait for a valid reason why does money only seem to excuse Liverpool for failing?

you have a good point, money is no excuse as we have always had a squad strong enough to challenge and managers have blew money on wasters. Inconsistency is the heart of our years of failure

[maypaxvobiscum]

I dont think you can take into account the spending of any of the top four since Rafa has arrived as all teams have been at different stages.

When Rafa first arrived both Arsenal and Man United had teams that had already won the Premier League and therefore they were adding players which were going to make the first eleven even stronger. Both Liverpool and Chelsea needed completly rebuilding but in Chelseas case they had Abramovich as an owner which allowed them to spend stupid amounts of money to make the team into Premier League champions.

The net spend argument thrown at Rafa is complete b#llocks because if you look at the reasons above then you will understand why Rafa has needed to spend as much cash as he has and in my personal view he hasnt been able to spend enough.

Our most expensive keeper, defender, midfielder and forward have all be signed by Benitez.

150 million plus spent in just under four years.

5 players of ten million or more bought...none sold for more than ten million or more.

Hardly bringing in the same sort of money he's spending.

I never see the money arguement as valid because of so many other clubs who seem to do fine without spending as much or teams who do worse despite spending more. You can't just have it as an excuse for us. I've been criticsed for using premiership teams as an example to prove this point, so I'll drop a division and use the Championship. Bristol City and Stoke are the top two in the Championship and neither are blessed with fortune. Whereas West Brom are fourth despite being on of the highest spenders outside of the Prem. QPR are not even in the playoffs and that's with them being owned by a man RICHER THAN AMBROVICH AND GIVING THEM AS MUCH MONEY AS NEEDED.

SO again I will ask the question and wait for a valid reason why does money only seem to excuse Liverpool for failing?

you have a good point, money is no excuse as we have always had a squad strong enough to challenge and managers have blew money on wasters. Inconsistency is the heart of our years of failure

i think even though rafa bought a few players who didnt have the quality, he was quick to get rid of them and he also managed to get profits on some such as kromkamp.

money, well, money is an issue. how else did chelsea win the epl? manure and arsenal have been spending alot over the years but have been buying fewer players these season due to the fact they had the time to build the team they wanted.

but im sure they all started off with big spending.

as for the issue about other clubs being able to do well without having to spend so much, consider the fact that the bigger clubs have more financial power and attract players cos of their history and how glamorous they are.






and that chelsea kinda ruined the market. 

[god_bless_john_houlding]

money HELPS sides succeed (chelsea main example) but it's not a valid excuse for us failing. Quality can be found for next to nothing (agger, arbeloa, lucas) so you don't need an open cheque book to win the title.

This is why I never see why people say money is so important. Throughout the years we've found quality players for little money in comparison to other sides. Also the same people who say "we need more money" then go and say "Torres is the best forward in the world" Torres who cost less than Drogba, Shevchenko and Rooney...so why do we need to spend 30 million on a player when we can find someone just as good, if not better, for 10 million less. An open cheque book doesn't gaurentee a title, so I don't see why it's mentioned as often as it is.

[stmichael]

Rafa has to catch up on at least 15 years of mismanagement off the pitch due to the club not exploiting the premier league new found riches because they were not forward thinking enough. If you want to blame anyone for us not consistently challening, blame the board and their short sightedness in believing that the old football club traditions would still hold true in the premier league as it did in the football league.

[maypaxvobiscum]

money HELPS sides succeed (chelsea main example) but it's not a valid excuse for us failing. Quality can be found for next to nothing (agger, arbeloa, lucas) so you don't need an open cheque book to win the title.

This is why I never see why people say money is so important. Throughout the years we've found quality players for little money in comparison to other sides. Also the same people who say "we need more money" then go and say "Torres is the best forward in the world" Torres who cost less than Drogba, Shevchenko and Rooney...so why do we need to spend 30 million on a player when we can find someone just as good, if not better, for 10 million less. An open cheque book doesn't gaurentee a title, so I don't see why it's mentioned as often as it is.

30 million on a player for 10 million less? money is a big thing you know. and 20million is a huge amount.
you're contradicting yourself in a single paragraph
30million isnt big to other clubs cause they have spent such amounts before but for us its not the case now but perhaps in the future.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

United spent millions upon millions during the 70s and 80s as well, but didn't win the league. We don't need as much money as you lot like to think.

[Yari7]

United spent millions upon millions during the 70s and 80s as well, but didn't win the league. We don't need as much money as you lot like to think.

The 70s and 80s was adifferent era. In this era, witht he big money that teams liek Chelsea and United have spent, we have to spend as well if we wish to keep up.

Unless you are Arsene Wenger and have an eye for young talent second to known

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Well Benitez may be now Wenger but he managed to find Agger for 5 million, Arbeloa for around 2 million I think and Lucas for five million. So there's talent there for little money. Why do we need 30 million on someone when we can find someone better for less than 10 million?

And the 70s and 80s were different eras....you mean talent isn't there anymore because you can only win things with money nowadays. Ah right. No point in youngsters playing anymore then because obviously talent doesn't win you anything.

[LFC2007]

[stmichael]

Of course football is a completely different game now than it was in eras gone by ffs. In those days you could come up from division 2 and win the league straight away in your first season because the playing field was more level. Now, put yourself in Rafa's shoes.

You have to contend with billionaire owners, clubs which have much, much more money than you, with managers that have been with the same club doing the rebuilding job that you have been doing for a fraction of the time with a board who has already tried to replace you just because you called them up on a lie they made.

It's reasonable to assume that, given the fact that we have seen good progress every year so far while winning the biggest competition in club football, given 10 years Rafa will have done more for us than Wenger and in 20 years done more than Ferguson.

However, some people in this day and age want instant success, which can only be done if you have an Abramovic due to the fact that 3 clubs are streets ahead of you on monetary terms and squad development.

[redtrader74]

Well Benitez may be now Wenger but he managed to find Agger for 5 million, Arbeloa for around 2 million I think and Lucas for five million. So there's talent there for little money. Why do we need 30 million on someone when we can find someone better for less than 10 million?

And the 70s and 80s were different eras....you mean talent isn't there anymore because you can only win things with money nowadays. Ah right. No point in youngsters playing anymore then because obviously talent doesn't win you anything.

The whole team does not need to be £30m players, but some do. You talk about the 70's and 80's, and forget the facts, you'll find that Kenny, Barnes and Beardsley for example were the £30m players of their time, they were record signings, we spent money then to win the league, we didn't do it on a shoe string. FFS Saunders i believe was also a British record. The FACT is that we have gone from being a Club that could and did on occassion outspend all our rivals, (oh and by pure coincidence win a few titles), to a Club that cannot and is now at the level of Man City, Newcastle, Spurs and even Westham.

[NANNY RED]

Well Benitez may be now Wenger but he managed to find Agger for 5 million, Arbeloa for around 2 million I think and Lucas for five million. So there's talent there for little money. Why do we need 30 million on someone when we can find someone better for less than 10 million?

And the 70s and 80s were different eras....you mean talent isn't there anymore because you can only win things with money nowadays. Ah right. No point in youngsters playing anymore then because obviously talent doesn't win you anything.

The whole team does not need to be £30m players, but some do. You talk about the 70's and 80's, and forget the facts, you'll find that Kenny, Barnes and Beardsley for example were the £30m players of their time, they were record signings, we spent money then to win the league, we didn't do it on a shoe string. FFS Saunders i believe was also a British record. The FACT is that we have gone from being a Club that could and did on occassion outspend all our rivals, (oh and by pure coincidence win a few titles), to a Club that cannot and is now at the level of Man City, Newcastle, Spurs and even Westham.

Youve gone over the top there Red with the West Ham bit

[redtrader74]

Well Benitez may be now Wenger but he managed to find Agger for 5 million, Arbeloa for around 2 million I think and Lucas for five million. So there's talent there for little money. Why do we need 30 million on someone when we can find someone better for less than 10 million?

And the 70s and 80s were different eras....you mean talent isn't there anymore because you can only win things with money nowadays. Ah right. No point in youngsters playing anymore then because obviously talent doesn't win you anything.

The whole team does not need to be £30m players, but some do. You talk about the 70's and 80's, and forget the facts, you'll find that Kenny, Barnes and Beardsley for example were the £30m players of their time, they were record signings, we spent money then to win the league, we didn't do it on a shoe string. FFS Saunders i believe was also a British record. The FACT is that we have gone from being a Club that could and did on occassion outspend all our rivals, (oh and by pure coincidence win a few titles), to a Club that cannot and is now at the level of Man City, Newcastle, Spurs and even Westham.

Youve gone over the top there Red with the West Ham bit

I wish i had, but they were willing to pay £18m for Bent, bought Bellamy from us at more than we paid, and millions more last year when the biscuit baron took over.

[god_bless_john_houlding]

Of course football is a completely different game now than it was in eras gone by ffs. In those days you could come up from division 2 and win the league straight away in your first season because the playing field was more level. Now, put yourself in Rafa's shoes.

You have to contend with billionaire owners, clubs which have much, much more money than you, with managers that have been with the same club doing the rebuilding job that you have been doing for a fraction of the time with a board who has already tried to replace you just because you called them up on a lie they made.

It's reasonable to assume that, given the fact that we have seen good progress every year so far while winning the biggest competition in club football, given 10 years Rafa will have done more for us than Wenger and in 20 years done more than Ferguson.

However, some people in this day and age want instant success, which can only be done if you have an Abramovic due to the fact that 3 clubs are streets ahead of you on monetary terms and squad development.

Ambrovich was the owner of Chelsea in 03/04 but they didn't win the league. Ambrovich is the owner of Chelsea this season, yet again don't look as if they'll win the league. Money eh QPR are owned by a man richer than Ambrovich, have been the biggest spenders outside of the prem this year, yet are still some way off making a playoff place nevermind an automatic promotion. Money eh

Bristol City were promoted from League 1 last year and find themselves second in the championship this year. Which proves that it is possible to do well after promotions. This isn't a one off either as Yeovil managed consecutive promotions under Gary Johnson. Carlise also managed it under Martin Allen.

I don't class as 9 points behind and the winners of the FA Cup to 21 points behind and champions league finalists as progress. Also up until this current run of seven straight wins, we were going backwards. So I don't think we have progressed to the standard some believe.

Here we go again with time. Ramos has been managing Spurs for less time than Coppell at Reading, but Spurs are above Reading aren't they? The same goes for Steve Bruce at Wigan. They're also above Reading despite having a manager in charge for a shorter period of time. But I forgot time only excuses Benitez doesn't it? Silly me.

Four years isn't long enough for Benitez? OK, so we give him the ten years you suggested. Won't Fergie (who doesn't look like he'll ever retire) and Wenger (who could still easily be at Arsenal) have been in charge longer so what difference will it make then? United will still be outspending us in 10 years as they are now, so what difference will it make? So if we can't win the league because teams outspend us or have managers who've been in charge of their clubs for longer than Benitez, we'll never win the league.

And to finish up LFC2007 until you express an opinion of your own, I will no longer read your posts, as right now they're a waste of time and energy reading them because I know they have nothing constructive to say.

[LFC2007]

And to finish up LFC2007 until you express an opinion of your own, I will no longer read your posts, as right now they're a waste of time and energy reading them because I know they have nothing constructive to say.

An opinion of my own?



I've made many a 'constructive' post in response to the shit you regularly post, unfortunately no matter how thorough I may be, you come back with the same ridiculous and discredited arguments (a good example above).

In conclusion, you're an idiot.