Liverpool FC Forum

[chrisrafman]

8 points behind. 8 games left. We are in unbelivable form with every chance of taking maximum points at Emirates and Old Trafford. Can a miracle happen? Me thinks maybe. You?

[ruskiy playmaker]

I really don't think so, we'd have to win all of our remaining games to have any chance.  But it makes you wonder how things would have been if we would have turned some of those draws into wins.

[JoeTerp]

more important that we finish ahead of everton, but in both cases you want to win all you games and you can't do anything about the other teams apart from the trips to old trafford and the emirates. I guess i would root for those other 3 teams to lose every week anyway, so I don't see us being closer making much of a difference. Just don't get your hopes up to high

[Rush Job]

No once again a complete loss of form though the winter has left us with too  much to do although, we could well finish 5 even 4 points off which after what i think everyone would admit has been a disapointing league season for us would still be progress and/or improvement, it also shows ( current table ) how things could so easy be different though i dont think we`ll win it till we get another source of goals.

[Seano Kop]

I'd be happy with 2nd or 3rd. We must win at Old Trafford and Emirates for that to happen though.

[The Manhattan Project]

The draws have limited our title chances.

It's not entirely beyond the realm of possibility for us to win the Prem this season, but it depends on Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U taking points off each other or hopefully drawing 0-0 with each other, and us winning every single game in the league from now until the final game with Spurs.

But...if we finish behind the champions with a single figure gap, it will represent progress.

The priority on the field then would be to add some better players, trim the dead weight and place special emphasis on killing off games, because that has cost us badly this season.

[bigmick]

We'll not win it, but if results go our way (and with all our rivals still being in the Champions League they might well do) we have the opportunity to get to a single figure deficit behind the eventual winners which would be a remarkable achievement considering some of the dark places we have visited this season. It will on the one hand represent progress, while on the other some (me included definately) will regard it as a missed opportunity. Chelsea are currently proof positive that you haven't got to be World beaters to be involved in the title race, you've just got to get the basics right.

Hopefully if nothing else the run we are currently on and the methods we are using to keep it going will teach us a lesson and stand us in good stead for next season.

[redtrader74]

Well its not impossible, and with nobody looking impressive of late, Chelsea grinding, Manu winning more by endeavour than tactically and Arsenal looking tired, there is a faint chance, but i doubt it, those poor draws cost us, and they hurt because we controlled most of those games, and a lapse in concentration cost us more than anything else. I was wondering if Mick and others that promised to consign the rotation argument to the dustbin should we get within single digits of the eventual winners (am i right?), will or not?

[maguskwt]

now I am interested to see how rafa will manage the arsenal mini-series... he already said that the squad is very important during this stretch and we may have to change players if possible... so will he in fact field a slightly weaker side for the middle game at emirates? and if you were rafa, how would you, especially the anti-rotation brigade, propose to handle the arsenal mini-series?

[redtrader74]

now I am interested to see how rafa will manage the arsenal mini-series... he already said that the squad is very important during this stretch and we may have to change players if possible... so will he in fact field a slightly weaker side for the middle game at emirates? and if you were rafa, how would you, especially the anti-rotation brigade, propose to handle the arsenal mini-series?

Its imperative we get results against MAnu and Everton, (two wins), firstly we will have fourth place pretty secure, and secondly ensure Arsenal are level with Manu, which means they will have to play their best team against us in the league fixture.

First leg best available team, second leg the same.

For the league game i would be tempted to rotate the whole midfield and even a couple of defenders, Riise in maybe, tell them to kick the sh!t out of Arsenal, run them ragged, pressure them the whole game, basically soften them up for the return game. This game is about getting a point, and weakening them. Play 4-5-1, Crouch up on his own. I have feeling the tie could be decided on one goal, and our players being that little more fresher and therefore sharper may just be the difference, in any case i just don't see us losing whatever Rafa picks.

[redtrader74]

We'll not win it, but if results go our way (and with all our rivals still being in the Champions League they might well do) we have the opportunity to get to a single figure deficit behind the eventual winners which would be a remarkable achievement considering some of the dark places we have visited this season. It will on the one hand represent progress, while on the other some (me included definately) will regard it as a missed opportunity. Chelsea are currently proof positive that you haven't got to be World beaters to be involved in the title race, you've just got to get the basics right.

Hopefully if nothing else the run we are currently on and the methods we are using to keep it going will teach us a lesson and stand us in good stead for next season.

IMO Chelsea still have greater depth to their sqaud than we do, but i suppose the difference is not great. I think just like we keep doing well in the CL, their league form in part is down to having won it twice, and a second place in the last three years, they've probably a little more nous and belief than our players. I recently heard a Terry interview, where he said that Grants message to them was that he wasn't going to change much from what they'd been doing for the last 3 years under Mourinho and he'd introduce his ideas next season...so out the top four they go 

[The Manhattan Project]

Arsenal like to pass, so we need to break up their play. Slow the game down. Try to retain possession and get them out of their stride. Close down their players as soon as they get the ball. Lots of pressure. Get physical with them. I also expect some female LFC fans at pitchside to get their norks out to distract Arsenal's players, although I doubt that will work on Fabregas.

[66-1112520797]

I was wondering if Mick and others that promised to consign the rotation argument to the dustbin should we get within single digits of the eventual winners (am i right?), will or not?

No not for me, if we hadnt of f.ucked about with the team more or less game after game we'd of been much closer now. It looks even more frustrating as we're currently eight points off. I'm positive rotation HASNT helped, and the fact we we're unable to beat mid opposition teams is annoying to say the least.

Like Mick kinda said, if we would of gone back to basics at the very start of the season, which IMO Rafa should of known from the previous season, we may of well found ourselves 1 or 2 points behind or even infront.

I mean persisiting with Kuyt upfront for the best part of the Autumn/winter part of the footballing calender is never going to get any English team within chance of challenging for the title. He was a burden on the side throughout that period and it took Rafa an awful long time to do anything about it, and ontop of that we had the manager and his rotation policies before anyone could actually pin point what the problem with the team was..

It cant really be put to bed Redtrader as in the last eight games maybe, Rafa has suck with a core of players, which doesnt surprise in recent fortunes. Okay he has changed one or two here and there, notably Skertel and Hyypia. Levia and Alonso. I dont agree with Carra playing fullback TBH, so yes in that sense he has changed it around, but this is Rafa we're taliking about and the recent Rotations have been milder and far more sensible. Also he seems to be tnkering the back four much more now, that could be one of the reasons we've been conceeding a few goals, well mainly set plays. But as of yet we havent paid for it. But recently in the pass we've paid for not killing teams off, and I think Rafa has let the four forwrd player play without being rotated with. Torres, Babel Gerrard and Kuyt whos position most definately needs to be filled with a quicker and moe threatening player. Have all played most minutes and we've reaped the rewards from it. There is still room for improvemennt in the right position, but at least we're now scoring and are killing teams off. Moving Gerrard behind Torres is the main indicator of that but Rafa is tinkering as much with them, their being left to it and its been more positive. Carry on tinkering with the back Rafa !!

I mean Torres is on fine form, and I'd have expected Rafa to rotate him outta form as he did with Crouch last season. That has suprised me, maybe hes realised that if you leave a player inform in the side you'll reap the rewards instead of going backwards. He has stuck with Gerrard behind Torres and hasnt shifted the captain about right left or fullback, he has kept the better players Carra apart in their better positions ans isnt selecting round pegs for square holes.

In the main recently he has rotated, but sensibly to which I dont mind. But whats more evident for me is that he has stuck with a core who are begining to look cohesive as the games go on, so IMO thats testimant to not rotating, thus leaving the rotation arguement wide open for debate.

PS: To the topic starter I dont thin we'll win the league and most of the reasons are because of what I've just typed ( I think anyway). No unfortunately we've just missed the boat on the league challenge, but there is always hope.

[redtrader74]

I'm probably one of the few on here that doesn't think we've performed especially well over our recent run, yes we've won and thats great, but in long periods we've still laboured. Its been the form of Torres and Gerrard and Mascherano that has put a veneer on our efforts. The notion has been that cohesiveness and fluency have always required lots of time and games, but now after a few wins, apparantly we have it?? I agree that we persisted far too long with Kuyt up front (if thats where he played), but there must be a reason for this ( i'm fcked if i know why), Rafa doesn't come across as a manager who does things without indepth deliberating.

IMO the draws in games we were winning and controlling is where we've really fallen behind and that had very little to do with the ills of rotation, because we probably performing aswell during those games as now, the overuse of Hyypia and failing to get a cover CB and G&H's disruption (IF you don't believe it affected the Players, you must concede it affected Rafa) have dented our chances far more than rotating.

[bigmick]

I was wondering if Mick and others that promised to consign the rotation argument to the dustbin should we get within single digits of the eventual winners (am i right?), will or not?

Unfortunately on the (am i right) question Red, you're not but it's a fair question anyway which deserves a response.

My long held conviction that "no team will ever blah blah blah whilst emplying rotation Rafa style" brought the question earlier in the season, "so what do you count as a challenge then?". My response was that a challenge is a challenge, but if you wanted to put a number on it finishing within a couple of wins would be a realsitic effort.

The reality is though (and we won't finish within six points I wouldn't have thought but we'll run it anyhow) that our current run into form, or at least current run of wins (as I'm still a bit underwhelmed by our play but that's OK, we'll improve with a settled team    ) has been built on the back of precisely what some of us have talked about for four years. It's incredible really that when the manager finally decides to adopt the policy which some of us have banged on about for so long and it so obviously works, some people seem to be of the opinion that that makes us wrong  Now if we had continued "Rafa styling" and we got within reach of landing a blow on the leaders, I'd be the first to admit I called it wrong all along. The reality is though of course, that'll never happen (not the me admitting I was wrong bit, I've been wrong on many occasions but not this time).

Much more important though than who is wrong or right, is that now finally we can look forward to next season safe in the knowledge that if we carry on in this way, we will be serious contenders for the league indeed. I don't even mind the "pro's" claiming our recent run is down to the "delayed gazelle" effect  , so long as we're winning it doesn't really matter.

I'm absolutely full of optimism now, I just hope the manager isn't fooling us with this new found coimmon sense, only to revert to his worst excesses at the start of next season. It really would be a terrible shame if we made 75 changes to the first team in the first 15 matches or whatever it was this season. Hopefully we've learnt our lesson now, who was right or wrong all along is an irrelevance.