Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

He is in the bracket with the likes of Kinnear, Redknapp and Curbishley IN MY OPINION, any speculation by anyone would not convince me otherwise.

as good managers as those three are they still haven't won any domestic trophies. o neill has so he is officially more successful than them. its a FACT, just accept it.

[greenred]

There are more "proven" managers than just the top two in England, that is a ridiculous statement

Well judging them by your criteria I dont think there are.You have stated that he should have won big trophies(presumably Champions League or Premiership,you surely arent including the FA cup),he should have proved himself at a major english club,and he should have spent big money wisely.They are all points you have used against appointing O`Neill.Infact there are only two currently employed managers who tick all your boxes,and they are Arsene Wenger and Alex Ferguson.

[Scottbot]

I have said on several occasions why i would like O'neil to get the job. I think JBG argues O'neils case very well. Perhaps the only thing i would add is that if i was a professional footballer i would love to play for O'neil. Sadly, i really don't believe we will land him. Face it folks, we are stuck with GH

Who would you pick to do the job Owzat?

[JBG]

Owzat, I still can't see your arguement.

Very few managers available to Liverpool (with Premiership) experience have done better than O' Neill.

You also see no reason why we should think O' Neill will succeed at Anfield.

What are you talking about? O' Neill has succeeded within reasonable limits at every step he has taken, all the way from Wycombe to Celtic and there is no reason to say he will not fail if he takes the next step up to Liverpool. He has never failed at every club he has tried his hand at, so why should we suddenly say there is no reason to say that he will succeed at Liverpool?

I'm not comparing O' Neill to Shanks, Ferguson etc. He might go on to achieve what these guys did, he might not, but he deserves a chance.

[Owzat]

Owzat, I still can't see your arguement.

Very few managers available to Liverpool (with Premiership) experience have done better than O' Neill.

You also see no reason why we should think O' Neill will succeed at Anfield.

What are you talking about? O' Neill has succeeded within reasonable limits at every step he has taken, all the way from Wycombe to Celtic and there is no reason to say he will not fail if he takes the next step up to Liverpool. He has never failed at every club he has tried his hand at, so why should we suddenly say there is no reason to say that he will succeed at Liverpool?

I'm not comparing O' Neill to Shanks, Ferguson etc. He might go on to achieve what these guys did, he might not, but he deserves a chance.

Can't see or don't want to, you're sounding like stu on this one

Every manager could come to Liverpool, it is a massive club with a great history and anyone not tempted to take it on is not worth considering

You also give no reason why I should think O' Neill will succeed at Anfield. Anything he wins with Celtic will indicate nothing, as I said the comparison with Souness stands.

O'Neill has succeeded on much lower levels than are required to win the Premiership. If you think winning it is that easy then you are gravely mistaken. Lower league success is irrelevant, his success in the Premiership is modest to say the least. The Worthless Cup doesn't cut any ice either, even Boro have won it and that was their first trophy EVER! What was the final - Bolton vs Boro, currently 12th and 13th respectively. That a Leciester team which couldn't even break into the top seven won it twice also speaks volumes

You're "arguing" that O'Neill could achieve great things like great managers with no previous record have done in the past, but won't accept that he might not.

I say it again - O'Neill's track record is not that impressive - FACT. Good enough to keep a 1st division team in an increasingly weak Premiership and win a trophy none of the top three really take seriously.

As O'Neill hasn't won anything worth winning, isn't it down to YOU to PROVE the sun shines out of his ar$e. You can't because there is no proof, your "argument" is founded on speculation and achieving modest success with a decent division one team.

[Owzat]

He is in the bracket with the likes of Kinnear, Redknapp and Curbishley IN MY OPINION, any speculation by anyone would not convince me otherwise.

as good managers as those three are they still haven't won any domestic trophies. o neill has so he is officially more successful than them. its a FACT, just accept it.

In mickey mouse cups he's more successful, we want a league title not mid-table mediocrity and a few cups. Might as well keep Houllier if that impresses you! 

[JBG]

Owzat: we'll have to agree to disagree, but as I said before I don't see MON or anybody else coming to Liverpool this summer as Houllier will remain on, regardless of what happens.

By the way, comparing me to Stu is a bit below the belt..... 

[greenred]

You also give no reason why I should think O' Neill will succeed at Anfield. Anything he wins with Celtic will indicate nothing, as I said the comparison with Souness stands.

"Anything he wins with Celtic will indicate nothing".

Not much point in discussing it with Owzat then,is there?

[ynwa]

what about sven

[Owzat]

You also give no reason why I should think O' Neill will succeed at Anfield. Anything he wins with Celtic will indicate nothing, as I said the comparison with Souness stands.

"Anything he wins with Celtic will indicate nothing".

Not much point in discussing it with Owzat then,is there?

Not if you're impressed with results in a comical league. Your mind is obviously closed, mine was very much open before I researched his record. I write off achievements in Scotland as it isn't even a top three European league and would be lucky if you compared it with Portugal, Holland and France

On a different note, I looked into cup and league stats for the Premiership. I am more interested in the Cup stats, the Premiership stats are purely for comparison

All Premiership titles and Cup winners from 1993-2003

Premiership - 3 winners (Arsenal, Man Utd, Blackburn Rovers)

FA Cup - 10 different teams have reached the final and there have been 5 different winners (Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Everton)

League Cup - 16 different teams have reached the final and there have been 7 different winners (Leicester City, Tottenham, Liverpool, Arsenal, Aston Villa, Chelsea and Blackburn Rovers)



There have been 11 cup finals during that period with a possible 22 (different) finalists. Man Utd have won 8 league titles and 3 FA Cups yet have only two League cup finals appearances. Arsenal have 2 league titles and 4 FA Cup wins compared to 1 League Cup win (in 1993). The relative strength of the competitions is pretty much summed up by the stats. None of Man Utd's 11 domestic trophies in that period is the League Cup and they have dominated English football during that time. Arsenal have only 1 League Cup among their 7 trophies and that was 11 years ago

[whylongball?]

Owzat: we'll have to agree to disagree, but as I said before I don't see MON or anybody else coming to Liverpool this summer as Houllier will remain on, regardless of what happens.

By the way, comparing me to Stu is a bit below the belt..... 

agree with u..he's the best available for Liv i guess!! surely better than G.H though he's not that proven as some ppl here say.

[stmichael]

all in all i'd rather not speculate until foolier is gone. then we can talk about it. for the moment we're stuck with him whether we like it or not.

[Owzat]

Owzat: we'll have to agree to disagree, but as I said before I don't see MON or anybody else coming to Liverpool this summer as Houllier will remain on, regardless of what happens.

By the way, comparing me to Stu is a bit below the belt..... 

agree with u..he's the best available for Liv i guess!! surely better than G.H though he's not that proven as some ppl here say.

But he isn't available. I could come up with names who might or might not come to Anfield, but so far the arguments FOR O'Neill fall short on the following :

1) He's available - I think Celtic might disagree. None of us are really that up on who is or isn't, who would or wouldn't

2) Who else do you suggest? - not really an argument against him being over-rated. I could suggest managers but whether they would come or not and how available they are would be speculation

3) He won two trophies - it is more than most managers, but nothing to do with the league

4) He has achieved success at Celtic - and yet people won't stand for the comparison with Souness

5) He instills confidence - oh yes, that is a surefire guarantee he'll succeed, Keegan is also a motivation manager

6) He took a weak Leicester and did well - yes quite well with what he had, but that still doesn't "justify" his massive reputation. People talk as though he's won an important trophy or made top 2-4 places in a top European league

Bottom line is you're speculating on what he might do, all I said (over and over) is he is massively over-rated based on his achievements. I reckon I could win the bowls World Championship if I took it up, I used to be good at it in my mates back garden when we were kids..........

[LFC #1]

I think the main thing has to be how a manger gets on with and motivates the players (also who he buys), then setting up tactics, lineups etc for each match then you have to let the players do the rest, because if they aren't quality you won't suceed no matter how good the manager is.

[JohnBull]

Houllier has had more than enough time and money to show improvements, if they were ever going to come. I am a great believer in "great players" not making "great teams" and the purchase of luxury players at this stage is NOT what Liverpool need.
Despite the press statements I do not believe that Houllier has the respect of the majority of the players. From the little personal contact I've had recently with players and their relations they have shown a very cautious attitude when asked about the dressing room atmosphere. It has not been the case of "everything's OK !" but my questions have been answered with shrugs and "I don't want to say " looks.
Without exception the Ex-Players I know have little time for Houllier or the present set-up. The old boys who have managed to jump on to the gravy train know what side their bread is buttered on and will suck all day long.
Given this situation I can see no reason to keep the Houllier set up with his type of politics which has fragmented the structure of the club right down to the kids in The Academy. Whoever comes in faces a massive task to rebuild the greatest club that this country has ever seen.
Looking at the managerial traditions since the turnaround in the 1950s it all stems from the respect that Shankly brought to the Boot Room then. Shortly after he came the then board sold Johnny Morrisey to Everton, without discussing the move with Shankly. He offered his resignation over this matter (and believe me Morrisey came back to haunt us over the following years). The board capitulated  and agreed that it would never happen again, the whole of the club was left in no doubt who was in charge from then on and the rest is now history.
The talk of the next manager has brought many suggestions from raiding Bayern/Porto/PSV to Charlton and Birmingham. I have slowly come to the feeling that of all the proposed managers, the only one with an attitude to take charge of the club and instill that fear of defeat that league championship winners need is Martin O'Neil. The players he has taken to Celtic raised a few eyebrows at the time but he seems to have generally got his moneys' worth and the signings have done the job required , at the end of the day that is all that you want.
Have the board got the balls to go for it?