Liverpool FC Forum

[stmichael]

running out of superlatives for the guy.

it has to be the best debut season by a foreigner in this country. i know van nistelrooy had a decent debut season but he took the penalties aswell. torres has scored 30 goals all from open play and has scored in seven home league games in a row.

[Bad Bob]

20 of his league 22 league goals have been at anfield, im not sure how to read into to that (or even if it needs to be read into), anyone have any suggestions? has he played less games away or is it that the way we play away from home doesn't favour him?

I think it's just one of those flukey things.  It's not as though he plays fewer away games and I don't think we play a significantly different game on the road than we do at home.  It's just one of those stats that you notice but can't properly explain.  The solution's clear though--hattricks at Fulham, Birmingham and Tottenham should even the balance.

No stats on the subject for you to regurgitate?  Is this not merely "common sense" as you mentioned before?

Torres (Liverpool)

Appearances : 42
Minutes : 3,251
Goals : 30
Goals/App : 0.714
Mins/Goal : 108

Home : 23 goals in 23 appearances (1.000 goals/app)
Away : 7 goals in 19 appearances (0.368 goals/app)

He's still scoring more goals per appearance away from home than any of our other strikers are overall - even than Fowler in his second stint! It's not great, made to look bad by his free scoring at home. If his overall record were only a goal every other game, and you knock off the excess from his record at Anfield, then he'd have scored 14 in 23 appearances which would be 0.609 goals/app. That shows how many more goals he's scored (NINE) than what is widely considered the mark of a good striker. Yet still he has some critics.

Ronaldo WILL get POTY, even if Torres scores 20 goals in the rest of the season it may not make a difference. But it is only opinion so don't take it that Ronaldo has had the better season, he is always in the limelight and so these kind of awards will rarely get objective consideration. People will see Ronaldo's remarkable scoring record as the clincher, there's no way a striker with less goals will get the award. BUT then they rarely consider a CB who's been immense, maybe because there's no really accurate measure of that immensity (is that a word?) As such the award is a joke, like excluding a player who can't collect it in person taints any award.

Well, the bit I've highlighted certainly isn't common sense, Owzat, I'll give you that.  Whether it's a meaningful contribution to an understanding of Torres's achievements this season is also questionable.  Call me crazy but I think scoring 30 so far in your debut season in England is the only number that's relevant here.  No need to spool up the useless stat machine to tell us Fernando's a bit special...the rest of us have already sussed that out. 

[Toffeehater]

It's a phenomenal effort from Torres, and he is clearly at least twice the player that most of us expected. I do think however that next season we are going to need to find alternative ways to score a goal as I would be astounded if he got anywhere near that next term. Teams will look at him, study him and work out not just ways to defend against him when he has it, but more specifically ways to stop him getting the ball in the first place.

Goals such as the one against Chelsea at the start of the season where he was left one on one facing goal in the penalty area will become largely a thing of the past as teams screen in front and make it hard to play him in, while goals such as the one against arsenal in the Champions League will become much harder as he will be faced up by the nearest midfield player should he pull it down with his back to goal when in the box.

This season with the new system and before, we have have had two central midfielders who don't score a goal. We've had a succession of right sided midfield players who don't score a goal, and for half a season a striker who doesn't score a goal as well. We have full backs who don't score a goal, and only our most senior centre half scores a goal out of our defenders. Gerrard and Torres apart, only Babel and Benayoun have chipped in here and there, and to be honest I'm unconvinced about the former and totally convinced the latter isn't good enough. Crouch has scored goals when he has played, but it appears rafa rates him only marginally more than Owzat so he's hardly been the answer either.

Clearly we need to spend, because however far behind the eventual champions we finish (and it's looking like high teens) God knows how far we would have been adrift if either Gerrard or Torres had got themselves a Van Persie or an Eduardo type injury. My suspicion is rotation or not we wouldn't have been going to Old Trafford five or six games from the end of the season still in with a chance of the title but I suppose that's another story. We definately need to aquire at the very least wide midfielders/strikers who provide some sort of goal threat and attacking menace, and in all probability a fullback who can chip in as well.


All that said though, Torres deserves nothing but credit for his first term at Liverpool. Unlike John I think he is a better player than Owen was at his best, and probably the equal of Fowler although very different in style. He would have some way to go in my eyes at least, to get to the hieghts Rush achieved, but the climb is not beyond him if he continues to develop. I should also mention Aldridge, who although not being the equal of the previously mentioned players, had the heart of a lion and love for the club whichy if Torres continues to aquire, will stand him in good stead to maximise the potential of his talent.

Top post mick , was just telling me mate , that i don;t think torres will get 30 next season maybe 15 to 20 , due to the same reasons that you have mentioned , even that goal ratio is still good , torres worth every penny

[stmichael]

The stats are incredible. That's now eight home games in a row he's scored in.

Infact in total there have only been two home league games where he hasn't scored. (Aston Villa and Man U) and there are only four teams overall he's not scored against (Man U, Aston Villa, Birmingham, Man City - with an opportunity remaining to score against the latter two in upcoming matches.)

All the 30 goals he's scored have been from open play aswell.

[Judge]

staggering. torres is sheer brilliant. he certainly delivers.

[Dundalk]

Spanish press are reporting that there for every 15 goals Fernando Torres scores, Liverpool will have to pay Atletico £200,000.

The Spaniard has scored 30 goals in all competitions and it means that £400,000 has been paid to Atletico due to an option in the striker’s contract.

It has also been claimed Atletico have earned another £200,000 from The Reds, as he has appeared more than 25 times in The Premier League.

[*_Ruthless_*]

Spanish press are reporting that there for every 15 goals Fernando Torres scores, Liverpool will have to pay Atletico £200,000.

The Spaniard has scored 30 goals in all competitions and it means that £400,000 has been paid to Atletico due to an option in the striker’s contract.

It has also been claimed Atletico have earned another £200,000 from The Reds, as he has appeared more than 25 times in The Premier League.

Still worth every penny IMO ...

I can only see El Nino getting PFA young player of the year very shortly!

[Magz]

I think Torres is alot closer to Ronaldo than we think. Diver boy also takes Manure's penalties whilst Stevie takes ours. Diving Ronaldo has scored 5 from the spot this season, take those away and he'd be right on par with Torres.

[Toffeehater]

Spanish press are reporting that there for every 15 goals Fernando Torres scores, Liverpool will have to pay Atletico £200,000.

The Spaniard has scored 30 goals in all competitions and it means that £400,000 has been paid to Atletico due to an option in the striker’s contract.

It has also been claimed Atletico have earned another £200,000 from The Reds, as he has appeared more than 25 times in The Premier League.

Hustlers 
When does this deal end ? when his contract is renewed?

[JC_81]

It's a phenomenal effort from Torres, and he is clearly at least twice the player that most of us expected. I do think however that next season we are going to need to find alternative ways to score a goal as I would be astounded if he got anywhere near that next term. Teams will look at him, study him and work out not just ways to defend against him when he has it, but more specifically ways to stop him getting the ball in the first place.

Goals such as the one against Chelsea at the start of the season where he was left one on one facing goal in the penalty area will become largely a thing of the past as teams screen in front and make it hard to play him in, while goals such as the one against arsenal in the Champions League will become much harder as he will be faced up by the nearest midfield player should he pull it down with his back to goal when in the box.

This season with the new system and before, we have have had two central midfielders who don't score a goal. We've had a succession of right sided midfield players who don't score a goal, and for half a season a striker who doesn't score a goal as well. We have full backs who don't score a goal, and only our most senior centre half scores a goal out of our defenders. Gerrard and Torres apart, only Babel and Benayoun have chipped in here and there, and to be honest I'm unconvinced about the former and totally convinced the latter isn't good enough. Crouch has scored goals when he has played, but it appears rafa rates him only marginally more than Owzat so he's hardly been the answer either.

Clearly we need to spend, because however far behind the eventual champions we finish (and it's looking like high teens) God knows how far we would have been adrift if either Gerrard or Torres had got themselves a Van Persie or an Eduardo type injury. My suspicion is rotation or not we wouldn't have been going to Old Trafford five or six games from the end of the season still in with a chance of the title but I suppose that's another story. We definately need to aquire at the very least wide midfielders/strikers who provide some sort of goal threat and attacking menace, and in all probability a fullback who can chip in as well.


All that said though, Torres deserves nothing but credit for his first term at Liverpool. Unlike John I think he is a better player than Owen was at his best, and probably the equal of Fowler although very different in style. He would have some way to go in my eyes at least, to get to the hieghts Rush achieved, but the climb is not beyond him if he continues to develop. I should also mention Aldridge, who although not being the equal of the previously mentioned players, had the heart of a lion and love for the club whichy if Torres continues to aquire, will stand him in good stead to maximise the potential of his talent.

Good post Mick.  Definitely agree Torres is twice the player most of us thought he'd be.

Next season will be a big test for him as you say.  There will be more expectation and teams will find more effective ways to defend against him.  I think he'll still do well though.  There are no real weaknesses to his game.

You can defend tight against him or you can drop off, it doesn't matter, he'll get by you either way.  Equally good with his back to goal as he is running at defenders.  The only way to stop him is cutting off his supply, which is what teams will try and do.

[Kukilon]

The only defender that has kept him quiet is Rio.

[Magz]

Correction: Rio + the refs.

[Seano Kop]

I think Torres is alot closer to Ronaldo than we think. Diver boy also takes Manure's penalties whilst Stevie takes ours. Diving Ronaldo has scored 5 from the spot this season, take those away and he'd be right on par with Torres.

And Ronaldo missed one against West Ham..

And then if Torres took all of ours, he'd be close to the 40 mark.

[VamosRafa]

The great things is that he can improve. He's only 24 and has a few more years till he hits his peak. If we sign better quality players i think he would thrive as well. He already links so well with Gerrard, imagine how he'd feed off 2 top quality wingers. Frightening, in a good way.

[metalhead]

I think he will get better and better