Liverpool FC Forum

[Owzat]

How good can he be is surely the question we should be asking? We've had a disappointing season and he's scoring for fun, how about if he has a good partner up front and a bit more supply from midfield/wide?

[Penguins]

That is the way it is when the money isn't there.
No coincidence Torres is the only player that cost £15m+ and it will take some time to allow us to have another great striker and some quility wingers.

And Rafa has really shown so far that he can not "develop players" once they come to the team.
It has always been, what you see is what you're going to get.
If a player has been good for the team, then that player has cost more than others.
I'm talking about outfield players, not goalkeepers who doesn't develop their playing skills.

Only way for us to get "Torres class" is to buy "Torres class"
and that will cost us.
That is one gripe with Rafa.
He was great in Spain and in the CL to use his tactics to get more out of the players as a team getting him some huge results.
The problem is that his tactics and style isn't working in the PL and that makes it impossible for him to use little resources and get big results.
I trust him normally to get good players in(Kuyt excluded)
but only if he gets the money to buy quality.
I do not trust him to buy cheap and make worldbeaters out of them.
Not once have that worked so far.

[bigmick]

How good can he be is surely the question we should be asking? We've had a disappointing season and he's scoring for fun, how about if he has a good partner up front and a bit more supply from midfield/wide?

It's one of those things Owz which tends to make monkeys out of everyone. I agree with every word of your post, he's scored goals in what has been a fairly ordinary team most of the season so surely he'd score more in a great team?

The truth is almost always the opposite. As we are a bit one man teamish he gets to sit in all the pockets, make all the runs, first dibs on heads up through balls in between defenders (meaning that he is the first and often the only player which the likes of Gerrard will look for) and gets first run on which post he takes up for balls coming into the box. It may well be the case that he'd score more often if we were really firing, but I actually think that if the team is to reach the ultimate of it's potential we really must get away from the situation which you yourself have "statted up" which shows that Gerrard and Torres actually score nearly all of our goals.

I actually wouldn't mind if Torres scored less but our attack becaome less one dimensional. Also I think it is reasonable to expect Premiership defences to play better against him as time goes on. Perhaps they could set up in the same way whcih Birnmingham apparently do. So effective were they about to be in their nullification of our star striker that the manager deemed it pointless even sending Torres out just to tire himself out banging into a brick wall.

[account deleted by request]

How good can he be is surely the question we should be asking? We've had a disappointing season and he's scoring for fun, how about if he has a good partner up front and a bit more supply from midfield/wide?

It's one of those things Owz which tends to make monkeys out of everyone. I agree with every word of your post, he's scored goals in what has been a fairly ordinary team most of the season so surely he'd score more in a great team?

The truth is almost always the opposite. As we are a bit one man teamish he gets to sit in all the pockets, make all the runs, first dibs on heads up through balls in between defenders (meaning that he is the first and often the only player which the likes of Gerrard will look for) and gets first run on which post he takes up for balls coming into the box. It may well be the case that he'd score more often if we were really firing, but I actually think that if the team is to reach the ultimate of it's potential we really must get away from the situation which you yourself have "statted up" which shows that Gerrard and Torres actually score nearly all of our goals.

I actually wouldn't mind if Torres scored less but our attack becaome less one dimensional. Also I think it is reasonable to expect Premiership defences to play better against him as time goes on. Perhaps they could set up in the same way whcih Birnmingham apparently do. So effective were they about to be in their nullification of our star striker that the manager deemed it pointless even sending Torres out just to tire himself out banging into a brick wall.

Maybe we could get a creative second striker and make the most of Torres as we did with Rush and Dalglish. Rather than bringing in another striker that will compete with Torres for the spaces and perhaps make similar runs, bring in a creative second striker that will create space for Torres and supply the through balls etc that Torres can feed on.

As for prem defences playing better against him next season, everyone said that about Van Nistelroy when he first came to England as well. Its up to the team to supply and create the chances, although I agree I would like to see a few players actually scoring a few, rather than depending on one or two players to get all the goals.

[liado]

are there any songs/chant for Torres the supporters sing during the match?

In Madrid They used to sing this...(It seems like the song has been adapted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1XYHuwuXY

[Scottbot]

Maybe we could get a creative second striker and make the most of Torres as we did with Rush and Dalglish. Rather than bringing in another striker that will compete with Torres for the spaces and perhaps make similar runs, bring in a creative second striker that will create space for Torres and supply the through balls etc that Torres can feed on.

As for prem defences playing better against him next season, everyone said that about Van Nistelroy when he first came to England as well. Its up to the team to supply and create the chances, although I agree I would like to see a few players actually scoring a few, rather than depending on one or two players to get all the goals.

Certainly if Rafa is the manager next season i would expect him to look to get an upgrade on Kuyt as Torres main partner. Rafa (we know) is quite obsessed with having his 2nd striker play 'between the lines', in fact I'd say it is proabably the cornerstone of his attacking philosophy. It's VERY rare that he will field a side with 2 out and out wingers (ie. babel and Pennant) supporting 2 out and out frontmen (Torres and Crouch) like we saw in the replay against Luton. It's simply not his way and never will be. And i think posters should probably remember that when they are suggesting which striker the club should buy next. It won't be another 'play on the shoulder' type of forward and it seems unlikely it will be another a typical big 'lead the line' centre-forward in the Kenwyn Jones (despite the rumours) or Dean Ashton mould. Also, I'll bet we NEVER see Torres and Babel start a game up-front together while Rafa is LFC manager.

I agree with you mate (plus i know you've been saying it for months now) that Torres NEEDS (in Rafa's system) to have a clever bugger playing behind him. Someone with a bit of trickery, a player who can form an understanding (similar to Torres-Gerrard) with Torres, someone who can chip in with 12-15 goals, someone who doesn't encroach on Torres space to often and OBVIOUSLY he needs to be a player with a high work-rate and be willing to chase, press and harrass when we lose the ball.

I must admit i don't know too many players out there that fit the bill and i'm no expert on European/foreign football. I guess a hard-working Jari Littmanen is what the manager should be looking for? Personally I still can't see past Robbie Keane. He doesn't quite fit the bill of 'creative 2nd striker' (more of a tweener) but he does come deep for the ball, he is creative, he is a team player who forms good partnerships with his fellow frontmen, he does score goals and he does work hard.

[Dundalk]

Funny you should say that about Keane. I was talking about the second striker role to a few mates the other day and Keanes name was the one that a lot of them seemed to favour.

[account deleted by request]

Maybe we could get a creative second striker and make the most of Torres as we did with Rush and Dalglish. Rather than bringing in another striker that will compete with Torres for the spaces and perhaps make similar runs, bring in a creative second striker that will create space for Torres and supply the through balls etc that Torres can feed on.

As for prem defences playing better against him next season, everyone said that about Van Nistelroy when he first came to England as well. Its up to the team to supply and create the chances, although I agree I would like to see a few players actually scoring a few, rather than depending on one or two players to get all the goals.

Certainly if Rafa is the manager next season i would expect him to look to get an upgrade on Kuyt as Torres main partner. Rafa (we know) is quite obsessed with having his 2nd striker play 'between the lines', in fact I'd say it is proabably the cornerstone of his attacking philosophy. It's VERY rare that he will field a side with 2 out and out wingers (ie. babel and Pennant) supporting 2 out and out frontmen (Torres and Crouch) like we saw in the replay against Luton. It's simply not his way and never will be. And i think posters should probably remember that when they are suggesting which striker the club should buy next. It won't be another 'play on the shoulder' type of forward and it seems unlikely it will be another a typical big 'lead the line' centre-forward in the Kenwyn Jones (despite the rumours) or Dean Ashton mould. Also, I'll bet we NEVER see Torres and Babel start a game up-front together while Rafa is LFC manager.

I agree with you mate (plus i know you've been saying it for months now) that Torres NEEDS (in Rafa's system) to have a clever bugger playing behind him. Someone with a bit of trickery, a player who can form an understanding (similar to Torres-Gerrard) with Torres, someone who can chip in with 12-15 goals, someone who doesn't encroach on Torres space to often and OBVIOUSLY he needs to be a player with a high work-rate and be willing to chase, press and harrass when we lose the ball.

I must admit i don't know too many players out there that fit the bill and i'm no expert on European/foreign football. I guess a hard-working Jari Littmanen is what the manager should be looking for? Personally I still can't see past Robbie Keane. He doesn't quite fit the bill of 'creative 2nd striker' (more of a tweener) but he does come deep for the ball, he is creative, he is a team player who forms good partnerships with his fellow frontmen, he does score goals and he does work hard.

I agree with almost everything you said mate apart from the Robbie Keane bit. I must have a blind spot or something where he is concerned. I just don't rate him at all. He scores and works hard but I think he's at his level with Spurs to be honest.

"Clever buggers" seem to be in short supply in the prem at the moment unfortunately with the emphasis on work rate, so I think if we are looking for the right type of player we will probably have to go abroad, I like what I have seen of Aguero and Diego (admittedly years ago)but I am sure there are plenty others I haven't seen or even heard of.

Anyone but Keane    To be fair I think Keane would be ok, I just think we could do better for the money.

[Scottbot]

"Clever buggers" seem to be in short supply in the prem at the moment unfortunately with the emphasis on work rate, so I think if we are looking for the right type of player we will probably have to go abroad, I like what I have seen of Aguero and Diego (admittedly years ago)but I am sure there are plenty others I haven't seen or even heard of.

Anyone but Keane    To be fair I think Keane would be ok, I just think we could do better for the money.

Like i said, my knowledge of European football isn't so great and i can't think of many 'clever buggers' plying their trade in the epl, at least none that are available. I guess there are umpteen  Aimars, Diegos, Aguerros kicking around in world football. Foreign teams seem to have an abundence of players who like to 'play in the hole' but i guess the question is can/could they do it in England? They also need to have that toughness or ability to toughen up if they are gonna make it overhere. Take utd, Two of their cleverist buggers are Tevez and Ronaldo. Tevez is tougher than a rotten nail and Ronaldo is physically bigger and stronger than a lot of the hatchet men trying to bring him down these days.

Can't get away from the fact we missed a trick when we didn't bring Mascherano AND Tevez to the club last January. Can you picture Torres and Tevez up-front together? ?

[laza]

How good can he be is surely the question we should be asking? We've had a disappointing season and he's scoring for fun, how about if he has a good partner up front and a bit more supply from midfield/wide?

Just hope it is going to be like the 90s when Robbie was scoring for fun but we won naff all

[Judge]

ciggy must be an affiliate of PANNINI, as they seem to be the only ones to have something called 'official'

these are my unofficial comments

[Emerald Red]

clap clap clap clap clap .......Torres!

Are you saying Torres has the clap?

What are your "sources"?   

[Graeme Noble]

Tevez would've been almost perfect. I agree with everyone. We need to buy a second striker with quality and get rid of Vorinin and Crouch.

[Toffeehater]

saint does not rate keane for some reason . Torres played well yesterday like he has played the whole of this season . Has adapted well and it being his first season has already hit 15 in the league and 20 in total , might be reaching the 20 goal a season in the league striker , if i'm not mistaken the last man to do that was robbie fowler , not even owen cud achieve that . A 2nd striker for me to partner torres would , tevez , villa . A creative striker could be diego , bentley , van der vart

[chrisrafman]

torres is a fantastic striker, the best weve had since rushie. even rushie may now be scared for his goal record, great hattrick yesterday and im sure many more to follow.