Rafa benitez - Give as many positives as negatives

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby Scottbot » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:43 pm

Rules of this thread are simple, if you wanna big up and defend the manager on x amount of points you also have to come up with the same number of criticisms and vice versa. The aim being that, despite being notorious on this forum for loving (or hating) the manager you also have to acknowledge our manager's strengths/achievements/weaknesses/failings.

Too many posters in this place post blindly, accentuating only the positive (or the negative) aspects depending which side of the fence they fall on. so if you can't write a balanced post, this probably isn't the thread for you.

Positive

First and foremost for me has to be the fact that Rafa has put us back on the map in Europe. I know Ged started it off with the UEFA Cup win but there is no doubt we have now reclaimed the kind of reputation and status in Europe that was enjoyed by Paisley & Fagan's Liverpool of the 80's. In 5 years our record reads - Champions - Last 16 - Runners-Up - Semi-finalists - Quater-Finalists. Istanbul was (don't tell the wife) the happiest day of my life (please don't tell her) and will live me forever. I've had the opportunity to roar the team on with the stadium at it's most fervent as we've beaten the likes of Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter-Milan and Arsenal in the knockout stages not to mention wins against Madrid (home and away), another in Milan and an incredible draw in Juventus in 2005. It also bothers me a lot how so many fans dismiss our march to the final in 2007. It was a fantastic effort but because we didn't win the final, it's as if the achievement of getting there meant nothing at all. I'll also add that we always seem to get a shoddy draw in Europe, always drawing the English teams.

Negative

A lot of posters whinge on about us not being able to compete with the likes of united and Chelsea in the transfer market and in many ways they are bang on. We can't collect £20 mill plus players in the ilk of Rooney, Ferdinand, Veron, Berbatov etc BUT I wish our manager was capable of picking up a few rough diamonds in the style of Wenger. Rafa simply doesn't make any. You only time i've ever thought to myself 'you clever bugger Rafa, what a brilliant piece of business' was when we signed Fowler on a free, it rejuvenated the fans and the boy came in, got fit and played well for a time. I guess you can add Aurelio and Arbeloa to the list but it's not enough. I watch us play the whole of this season with Lucas (a poor mans Mascherano at best) in our midfield and wonder why the hell we didn't move for a Jimmy Bullard or a Danny Murphy to fill the void until Aquaman is fit? I watch us struggling along with the likes of Ngog and Voronin subbing for the injured Torres and look in wonder at the fact Spurs have Pavlyjenko sitting on their bench as FOURTH CHOICE. If Rafa is ever going to win the title he NEEDS to pull a few rabbits outta hats in the transfer market with minimal funds.

POSITIVE

The best managers in this game turn things around when it all looks like it's going to rats sh...i...t. Houllier's Liverpool got better year on year, they went from 5th to 4th to 3rd to 2nd and then bang, hit the wall, and then begun to free-fall. He simply couldn't turn it around. Keegan was very much the same at Newcastle, good managers both of them but the best ones somehow manage to stop the rot, pick the team up, get the fans back on side and stick it to the press. Rafa definitely falls into this category. I don't think we've had a season go by where the team has fallen into some sort of a skid (not that this is a good thing) but they've always pulled out of it and put a run together (either in Europe, the Cups, or the League). Obviously this current skid is worse than any in the past 30 odd years and the manager has got a SERIOUS rebuilding job to do for the rest of the season.

NEGATIVE

Substitutions Substitutions Substitutions!!! How many times have you been watching a game in which we needed a goal (or two) and sat there screaming at the pitch/TV for the manager to make a change and to do it right now! I've lost count, i've literally been pulling my hair out in frustration at Rafa's subs. Either they come too late, sometimes he doesn't make the final sub until the 85th minute even though we're still chasing the game. The manager NEVER makes more than one sub at a time, I reckon he's done it no more than three times in his whole time as manager (i'd love to see the stats) and i've never understood it. Mourinho and Bobby Robson used to make three subs at once in an effort to really change a game and you know what, sometimes it works!

POSITIVE

Rafa Benitez could have walked away from this club THREE times. The biggest (supposedly) club in world football and boyhood club have come calling and everytime he has politely told them 'no thanks', it's a shame Xabi didn't tell them the same thing. clearly the guy loves the club, he loves the city and he knows and appreciates that LFC fans are greatest in the world. I think he'd stay for another 15 years if we'd have him. The guy is a class act, he understands what Liverpool Football club is all about and he doesn't want to be anywhere else. He has stood up to the fookin idiots in charge and I can't help but wonder what these clueless lying :censored: might have pulled if he wasn't at the club? He has helped (for me) to mobilize (unwittingly maybe) a lot of the protest against the owners. Comments like the one he made about Torres made not seem like a big deal but I think they keep the owners in check. I think it's likely that we'll need more of that.

NEGATIVE

Baffling team selections. I can't pinpoint particular matches (i'm sure others can) but many times i've seen the team-sheet on the box or from the announcer and thought 'what the f...u...c..k.!!!', we all have. sometimes it comes completely out of the blue, we might have been playing well for x amount of games, I might have (pretty much) agreed with the team selection for the previous 10 games and then bang! How do ya like this line-up!?! 'Where the fook did you get that idea from Rafa and how the hell do you think it's gonna work!?' Quite often it's a fundumental thing that i don't agree with e.g. Kuyt up front on his own (it should NEVER ever happen happen, I don't care if we beat Newcastle 5-0 playing that way).

POSITIVE

I know it's one more postive than a negative but i have to finish with:

FERNANDO TORRES
Last edited by Scottbot on Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rush Job » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:09 am

Sometimes he`s good, sometimes he`s :censored:.
Dont judge a book by the cover, unless you cover just another, because blind exceptance is a sign,
Of stupid fools who stand in line......  Like..
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Postby killerp » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:17 am

Positive: He bought Aquilani who I think is a great player

Negtaive: Rafa bought him when he was recovering from a serious injury & due to that players absence the team has suffered & potentially lost the league before Christmas.

Positive: Rafa is a likable manager as a person

Negative: Rafa is not the most likable manager as a manager at the moment!

Positive: Rafa is dedicated to the club

Negative: Rafa has won nothing major since 2005

Positive: Torres makes up for many wasted transfers over the years

Negative: Torres is now injured & we have no other strikers to replace him (I mean real strikers not Ngogs or Voronins)

Hows that balance?
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Postby JoeTerp » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:30 am

killerp wrote:Negative: Rafa has won nothing major since 2005

is the FA Cup minor?
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Postby Kharhaz » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:39 am

You should rename it LFC NEWKITS ARGUMENTAL :D

Positive: He won the European Cup. I never thought I would see the team lift it in my adult years and so when we did, he was classed as a god in my eyes and gave me, and many others, one of the greatest nights of our lives.

Negative: Unfortunately, we havent truly built on that success.

Positive: When we are good, we are very very good.

Negative: When we are bad we are ugly ! (got that from my babies jumper ! :laugh: )

Positive: Tactically, when it comes to facing the big teams, and are up against the wall, rafa usually comes up with the goods.

Negative: Against teams like stoke or sunderland, his tactics are pretty poor.

Positive: He signed Robbie Keane, who I always had a soft spot for.

Negative: He soon sold him !

Positive: He showed wonderful patience with Peter Crouch after a torrid run of games of not scoring.

Negative: When Crouch did start scoring he was dropped then shipped out.

Positive: He looks to get the best out of the players he has to cover several positions and situations.

Negative: Playing Crouch on the left wing is too much !

Positive: He has Liverpool at heart.

Negative: Is that enough?
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby killerp » Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:44 am

JoeTerp wrote:
killerp wrote:Negative: Rafa has won nothing major since 2005

is the FA Cup minor?

Not to take anything away from that achievement but compared to winning the League or CL, err yes.  :D

Fair enough it's nice to have another FA Cup sitting in the trophy cabinet but its the spot for the league trophy that's really dusty & hence a negative.
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Postby Keris » Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:33 am

Positives,
Rafa have always had a game plan. Certain player for certain games, zonal marking (?), sometimes he plays the 5-3-2 formation, rotating players.

Negatives;
Set pieces. We almost never score from one or we can't defend them.
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Postby Ben Patrick » Mon Nov 23, 2009 5:59 pm

Am goin to reply to this in a bit when i get home from work.

Cos its a great thread and i feel sorry for Scott  :D
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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Postby Benny The Noon » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:03 pm

Positives-

1.Brought many top players to the club -

Torres,Masher,Pepe,Agger,Kuyt,Xabi Momo to name a few

When he has needed to upgrade he has got good money for players leaving .

2.Won us Bigears

3.Won us the FA Cup

4.Turned us into a feared team in Europe beating every single top team in europe-Inter,Real,AC,Barce etc

5.Got us challenging for the prem and turned us into a better team than we were when he took over .

6.Has engulfed what it means to be part of liverpool - has gone into a pub a joined liverpool fans cheering against the Mancs .

7.Is a closed book towards the journos - ignores the sh.it they make up

8. Despite all the sh.it from the media and from the owners has stuck with us despite offers from some of the biggest clubs in europe.

Negatives

1.Stubborn with regards some aspects - once he has made his mind up about a player it stays that way

2. Subs - too rigid and needs to adapt a bit more

3.Couple of poor players bought in for big fees

4.Failing to go for it against smaller teams

5.Too defensive against the smaller teams
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:21 pm

Positive
Good manager with good technical and tactical knowledge, reasonably successful in the transfer market and usually lucky. ( Like Napoleon I like my managers to be lucky)

Negative
Poor man manager who makes too many mistakes.
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Postby SouthCoastShankly » Mon Nov 23, 2009 6:43 pm

Positive - He has made the Peter Kay beard work in the face of ridicule.
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Postby Ben Patrick » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:20 pm

Benny The Noon wrote:Positives-

1.Brought many top players to the club -

Torres,Masher,Pepe,Agger,Kuyt,Xabi Momo to name a few

When he has needed to upgrade he has got good money for players leaving .

2.Won us Bigears

3.Won us the FA Cup

4.Turned us into a feared team in Europe beating every single top team in europe-Inter,Real,AC,Barce etc

5.Got us challenging for the prem and turned us into a better team than we were when he took over .

6.Has engulfed what it means to be part of liverpool - has gone into a pub a joined liverpool fans cheering against the Mancs .

7.Is a closed book towards the journos - ignores the sh.it they make up

8. Despite all the sh.it from the media and from the owners has stuck with us despite offers from some of the biggest clubs in europe.

Negatives

1.Stubborn with regards some aspects - once he has made his mind up about a player it stays that way

2. Subs - too rigid and needs to adapt a bit more

3.Couple of poor players bought in for big fees

4.Failing to go for it against smaller teams

5.Too defensive against the smaller teams

thats a good balanced post that.
Sabre looks like a big lezzer
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Postby supersub » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:24 pm

FA Cup minor...ffs  :no
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THERE'S A GREAT BIG BEAUTIFUL TOMORROW AND TOMORROW IS JUST A DREAM AWAY.
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Postby Emerald Red » Mon Nov 23, 2009 7:59 pm

s@int wrote:Positive
Good manager with good technical and tactical knowledge, reasonably successful in the transfer market and usually lucky. ( Like Napoleon I like my managers to be lucky)

Negative
Poor man manager who makes too many mistakes.

He ain't that lucky these days, S@int.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:19 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
s@int wrote:Positive
Good manager with good technical and tactical knowledge, reasonably successful in the transfer market and usually lucky. ( Like Napoleon I like my managers to be lucky)

Negative
Poor man manager who makes too many mistakes.

He ain't that lucky these days, S@int.

You could argue he is lucky to still be in a job mate  :D
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