Liverpool FC Forum

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I think the managers of this club under FSG are encouraged/ expected to play a more open attacking style . Rodgers spent a lot of money and the football was pretty much the same where we couldn't defend and began throwing away leads on a regular basis. We bought a lot of players with potential based on whatever by a committee that is still in operation so maybe they didn't think the players needed changing but rather introducing a manager who can get those players to the next level. Then we got Klopp and he has somewhat achieved that but its still the same issue that remains and that is certain players are just not good enough. Why he hasn't replaced them or still persists with the same captain is anyones guess. Imo he is here to manage what Fsg think they are building.

As fans we do want to see exciting football but accept it can't always be like that. Would we take Maureen knowing what style he would bring if it meant finally lifting that league ? Jurgen would have won much more stuff if he was more open to changing his tactics in crucial games. It can't always be flat to the mat every game unless you have the players to do it but we don't.
There is no safety net for managers here anymore as it could be 6 inside 10 years if Jurgen goes.
Things could and most likely would have been different if Klopp was given the full run of things like top managers get. I believe we would have signed more players and we would be a much better unit for it. We are in his 3rd season and while he has improved the players we still need to replace plenty. If Coutinho and Emre go then its pretty much a rebuild again.

I'm surmising that the manager gives each player special instructions before a game as he seems loathe in post match interviews to add his critique of individual players or indeed errors, his preference is to point to this being a team game and conceded goals are a responsibility of the entire 11 on the pitch at the time. An assumption that leads me to believe that if we bring in players that adhere stringently to his instructions we could become an extremely difficult team to beat, I think our biggest problem is application and a distinct lack of concentration that sees some players unable to carry out his edict for the entire 90 minutes.

[redshade]

Majority if not all of our mistakes are usually individual errors. Bottom line is Klopp must detach himself from certain players and replace them. It's all good having an understanding between players and manager but there are times when even those relationships must be put to and end.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

Majority if not all of our mistakes are usually individual errors. Bottom line is Klopp must detach himself from certain players and replace them. It's all good having an understanding between players and manager but there are times when even those relationships must be put to and end.

I agree some players simply lack the attention span or the football brain to follow the managers instructions and are thus prone to individual errors,but I can also understand the managers insistence that in the case of Moreno those mishaps wouldn't have unfolded if the midfield were tracking back and covering those exposed flanks.

[7_Kewell]

Majority if not all of our mistakes are usually individual errors. Bottom line is Klopp must detach himself from certain players and replace them. It's all good having an understanding between players and manager but there are times when even those relationships must be put to and end.

^^This.

Klopp's trust in some of his squad is misplaced. The likes of Migs, Moreno and Lovern will always let him down. Henderson isn't captain material either. Or a regular starter for that matter.

As some have already said, Klopp didn't build the defence and we were hardly a title winning squad when he took over. His lack of plan Bs in the transfer market has hurt him, but on the flip side his record of signing talent for big money is extremely impressive.

He'll get it right, I'm sure of it.

[red till i die!!]

I think the managers of this club under FSG are encouraged/ expected to play a more open attacking style . Rodgers spent a lot of money and the football was pretty much the same where we couldn't defend and began throwing away leads on a regular basis. We bought a lot of players with potential based on whatever by a committee that is still in operation so maybe they didn't think the players needed changing but rather introducing a manager who can get those players to the next level. Then we got Klopp and he has somewhat achieved that but its still the same issue that remains and that is certain players are just not good enough. Why he hasn't replaced them or still persists with the same captain is anyones guess. Imo he is here to manage what Fsg think they are building.

As fans we do want to see exciting football but accept it can't always be like that. Would we take Maureen knowing what style he would bring if it meant finally lifting that league ? Jurgen would have won much more stuff if he was more open to changing his tactics in crucial games. It can't always be flat to the mat every game unless you have the players to do it but we don't.
There is no safety net for managers here anymore as it could be 6 inside 10 years if Jurgen goes.
Things could and most likely would have been different if Klopp was given the full run of things like top managers get. I believe we would have signed more players and we would be a much better unit for it. We are in his 3rd season and while he has improved the players we still need to replace plenty. If Coutinho and Emre go then its pretty much a rebuild again.

I'm surmising that the manager gives each player special instructions before a game as he seems loathe in post match interviews to add his critique of individual players or indeed errors, his preference is to point to this being a team game and conceded goals are a responsibility of the entire 11 on the pitch at the time. An assumption that leads me to believe that if we bring in players that adhere stringently to his instructions we could become an extremely difficult team to beat, I think our biggest problem is application and a distinct lack of concentration that sees some players unable to carry out his edict for the entire 90 minutes.

He sets out his team and roles during training every week kind of like what Rodgers used to do with designated bibs so yes I agree players are well versed in what their role is before the next KO. The other day he was upset at M.Oliver for holding up his subs as He said Lallana was coming on at an important time to allay instructions to the team in the build up for the goal. At the end he was caught in a bit of a heated discussion with Mane about his positioning when he came on and why he didn't go where he was told. This is all fine but impossible to micro manage every aspect of a game which is what he tries to do and its as a consequence of not having a good enough squad or bringing enough of his players in. It is a team game and you could track every goal we ever concede to an individual somewhere along the line and whether that is a misplaced pass up front or a sloppy clearance from the back you will always find someone accountable for not doing something. What you can't do is hold a team accountable for players like Migs, Moreno and Lovren when they decide to play against us.
We need players who stand up and stand out, Its still a team game but you still need leaders within the squad that aren't afraid to say what is on their mind and demand others raise their game. Had we of having at least one player like that we would have taken all 3 points in Seville.

I do think we would be a different side if he had signed the players he wants Red but I can't help but feel time isn't on his side anymore. Being so confident about a terrible defence did him harm as it seems everyone except him knew it wouldn't change without new players. We expected big things in the summer and maybe he did as well but we did virtually nothing to deliver the title challenge he talked about. He spoke about plenty of players as well but we only ended up getting one and that was expected to boost our squad in multiple competitions. I think he is struggling with how we do things and has become passive in his approach to rebuilding. I mean how can he not even change the captain in 3 seasons when even the lad himself knows he isn't able for it and Is buckling under the pressure.
If we do end up seeking a replacement next summer for whatever reason can we even say he left his mark here ?  The tri-annual circle we seemed to have adopted as custom is just around the corner and I am not so sure the manager is taking us down this path as much as the club is dragging us down it.

[RED BEERGOGGLES]

I think the managers of this club under FSG are encouraged/ expected to play a more open attacking style . Rodgers spent a lot of money and the football was pretty much the same where we couldn't defend and began throwing away leads on a regular basis. We bought a lot of players with potential based on whatever by a committee that is still in operation so maybe they didn't think the players needed changing but rather introducing a manager who can get those players to the next level. Then we got Klopp and he has somewhat achieved that but its still the same issue that remains and that is certain players are just not good enough. Why he hasn't replaced them or still persists with the same captain is anyones guess. Imo he is here to manage what Fsg think they are building.

As fans we do want to see exciting football but accept it can't always be like that. Would we take Maureen knowing what style he would bring if it meant finally lifting that league ? Jurgen would have won much more stuff if he was more open to changing his tactics in crucial games. It can't always be flat to the mat every game unless you have the players to do it but we don't.
There is no safety net for managers here anymore as it could be 6 inside 10 years if Jurgen goes.
Things could and most likely would have been different if Klopp was given the full run of things like top managers get. I believe we would have signed more players and we would be a much better unit for it. We are in his 3rd season and while he has improved the players we still need to replace plenty. If Coutinho and Emre go then its pretty much a rebuild again.

I'm surmising that the manager gives each player special instructions before a game as he seems loathe in post match interviews to add his critique of individual players or indeed errors, his preference is to point to this being a team game and conceded goals are a responsibility of the entire 11 on the pitch at the time. An assumption that leads me to believe that if we bring in players that adhere stringently to his instructions we could become an extremely difficult team to beat, I think our biggest problem is application and a distinct lack of concentration that sees some players unable to carry out his edict for the entire 90 minutes.

He sets out his team and roles during training every week kind of like what Rodgers used to do with designated bibs so yes I agree players are well versed in what their role is before the next KO. The other day he was upset at M.Oliver for holding up his subs as He said Lallana was coming on at an important time to allay instructions to the team in the build up for the goal. At the end he was caught in a bit of a heated discussion with Mane about his positioning when he came on and why he didn't go where he was told. This is all fine but impossible to micro manage every aspect of a game which is what he tries to do and its as a consequence of not having a good enough squad or bringing enough of his players in. It is a team game and you could track every goal we ever concede to an individual somewhere along the line and whether that is a misplaced pass up front or a sloppy clearance from the back you will always find someone accountable for not doing something. What you can't do is hold a team accountable for players like Migs, Moreno and Lovren when they decide to play against us.
We need players who stand up and stand out, Its still a team game but you still need leaders within the squad that aren't afraid to say what is on their mind and demand others raise their game. Had we of having at least one player like that we would have taken all 3 points in Seville.

I do think we would be a different side if he had signed the players he wants Red but I can't help but feel time isn't on his side anymore. Being so confident about a terrible defence did him harm as it seems everyone except him knew it wouldn't change without new players. We expected big things in the summer and maybe he did as well but we did virtually nothing to deliver the title challenge he talked about. He spoke about plenty of players as well but we only ended up getting one and that was expected to boost our squad in multiple competitions. I think he is struggling with how we do things and has become passive in his approach to rebuilding. I mean how can he not even change the captain in 3 seasons when even the lad himself knows he isn't able for it and Is buckling under the pressure.
If we do end up seeking a replacement next summer for whatever reason can we even say he left his mark here ?  The tri-annual circle we seemed to have adopted as custom is just around the corner and I am not so sure the manager is taking us down this path as much as the club is dragging us down it.

Good post,we all knew before the season started that certain players would only take us so far,and after a very feeble window the disbelief right through the fan base was tangible. I think the manager placing far too much onus on players improvement' notably the defense' has left us all flummoxed ,but I'm desperate for him to succeed because if a manager of his pedigree cant turn this club around then I don't see where we go from there under the ownership of FSG 

I still think that finishing fourth and maybe winning a trophy is more than feasible,so I'm not about to write our season off.

[johnbarnes]

Majority if not all of our mistakes are usually individual errors. Bottom line is Klopp must detach himself from certain players and replace them. It's all good having an understanding between players and manager but there are times when even those relationships must be put to and end.

^^This.

Klopp's trust in some of his squad is misplaced. The likes of Migs, Moreno and Lovern will always let him down. Henderson isn't captain material either. Or a regular starter for that matter.

As some have already said, Klopp didn't build the defence and we were hardly a title winning squad when he took over. His lack of plan Bs in the transfer market has hurt him, but on the flip side his record of signing talent for big money is extremely impressive.

He'll get it right, I'm sure of it.

Do you actually think that Klopp truly believes that certain current LFC players are going to turn him into a great manager?
Do you really think he goes home at night and says to his wife "You know love, that Mignolet is going to win the Ballon d'Or one day and I'm going to be his manager when he does!"
----
Klopp is a true professional and with this comes loyalty to his current base of players, regardless of anything else. The team comes first!
----
SAF won his last PL with the worst team he ever built. Do you think he let them know that or do you think he just kept on reminding them that they're as good as, if not better than his treble winning team?
----
It's all kidology... And Klopp is currently doing his bit until he can dispose of certain players and bring better ones in!

[Ghost of Shankly]

.
It's all kidology... And Klopp is currently doing his bit until he can dispose of certain players and bring better ones in![/color]

Which He may not even do! Who knows, he may stick with Henderson, Moreno, Milner, Lovren and the likes for the next 2/3 seasons!?
There is no indication that he plans to change that much, and he isn't really a "transfer market" manager either, making wholesale changes.

[redshade]

Majority if not all of our mistakes are usually individual errors. Bottom line is Klopp must detach himself from certain players and replace them. It's all good having an understanding between players and manager but there are times when even those relationships must be put to and end.

^^This.

Klopp's trust in some of his squad is misplaced. The likes of Migs, Moreno and Lovern will always let him down. Henderson isn't captain material either. Or a regular starter for that matter.

As some have already said, Klopp didn't build the defence and we were hardly a title winning squad when he took over. His lack of plan Bs in the transfer market has hurt him, but on the flip side his record of signing talent for big money is extremely impressive.

He'll get it right, I'm sure of it.

----
SAF won his last PL with the worst team he ever built. Do you think he let them know that or do you think he just kept on reminding them that they're as good as, if not better than his treble winning team?
----

Sorry mate but SAF still had a good squad when he won his last premiership. He had a strong spine and good quality players thas why he won the damn league.

De Gea, Evra, Ferdinand, Vidic, Kagawa, Rooney, Van Persie etc..

Also helping out the old heads Scholes and Giggs who knew what it takes to win the prem.

He had balance throughout the squad and good players to work with which made his task easier.

[aCe']

It's deluded to think we're 3 players away or that Lovren and Mignolet are the reason we dont defend well. It would be the same as an Everton or Southampton thinking they are 3 players away from being a top4 side simply because they have a few good players.

- I dont think we have a manager who can win the league. I like Klopp. He's probably the best option for the team to get a top4 finish outside Carlo Ancelotti. Which is the reason he should stay. Because that imo is the peak of our ambitions.
- Our squad is not one of the top4 squads in the league. City, Utd have much better squads and it'll take multiple windows of them standing still and us signing top quality to catch up. Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal are also better equipped to challenge that.
- Sides/managers that want to win do not persist with mediocrity. What exactly are we waiting to see happen with the likes of Mignolet, Moreno, Lovren, Matip, Henderson, Milner, Firmino, Chamberlain. One or two in the squad I'd understand but some of them have been around a while and I just cant understand it. Again, for me its another indication that we are comfortable with the situation we're in. Compete for a top4, try to get the best out of the average players available. No need to break the bank for proven players.
- Our best players are not world class and are not consistent. Suarez, Gerrard, Torres were all world class. Alonso, Mascherano, Hyypia, etc. clearly were as well. Coutinho and Mane are probably closest to that in our squad but neither is good enough to take the side to the next level the way a Suarez, Torres, or Gerrard did.
- Financially, we cant compete with the top sides when they decide to turn it on. We'll always rely on signing players who are in that second bracket or arent wanted by the top sides.

[7_Kewell]

We'll always rely on signing players who are in that second bracket or arent wanted by the top sides.

Didn't OX turn down Chelsea to come here? I'm also pretty sure Kieta was wanted by a few top sides, yet he's agreed to come.

[parchpea]

I wouldnt say Klopp was lucky at Dortmund but there was good fortune involved, buying cheap players that turned out to be world class, thats rare and Dortmund havent done it since.

To repeat that in England is a massive ask and at Liverpool where there is a limit on resources. We probably have a budget akin to Munich who are the most powerful club in Germany but here its really nothing at all, nowhere near enough.

Hope Im wrong but dont think Klopp will leave having greatly improved us overall, you never see a bad Liverpool game though so its always pulsating but it drives you mad when we cant shut out games.

[aCe']

We'll always rely on signing players who are in that second bracket or arent wanted by the top sides.

Didn't OX turn down Chelsea to come here? I'm also pretty sure Kieta was wanted by a few top sides, yet he's agreed to come.

Are you trying to imply that Ox is a top player ? Or that Keira was top target for a Barcelona or Bayern and he turned them down ? If anything your argument just goes to prove my point. Utd, City, Chelsea and even Arsenal have gone out and signed the Moratas, Lukakus and Lacazettes of the world. proven players. We did well with Salah but he was always a much bigger risk than the rest of the names the top clubs went after.

[7_Kewell]

We'll always rely on signing players who are in that second bracket or arent wanted by the top sides.

Didn't OX turn down Chelsea to come here? I'm also pretty sure Kieta was wanted by a few top sides, yet he's agreed to come.

Are you trying to imply that Ox is a top player ? Or that Keira was top target for a Barcelona or Bayern and he turned them down ? If anything your argument just goes to prove my point. Utd, City, Chelsea and even Arsenal have gone out and signed the Moratas, Lukakus and Lacazettes of the world. proven players. We did well with Salah but he was always a much bigger risk than the rest of the names the top clubs went after.

Fella, you said we rely on signing players who aren't wanted by top sides. Ox turned down Chelsea, but now you're saying that don't count.

Make your mind up 

[kazza]

Majority if not all of our mistakes are usually individual errors. Bottom line is Klopp must detach himself from certain players and replace them. It's all good having an understanding between players and manager but there are times when even those relationships must be put to and end.

^^This.

Klopp's trust in some of his squad is misplaced. The likes of Migs, Moreno and Lovern will always let him down. Henderson isn't captain material either. Or a regular starter for that matter.

As some have already said, Klopp didn't build the defence and we were hardly a title winning squad when he took over. His lack of plan Bs in the transfer market has hurt him, but on the flip side his record of signing talent for big money is extremely impressive.

He'll get it right, I'm sure of it.

[color=#FF0000]Do you actually think that Klopp truly believes that certain current LFC players are going to turn him into a great manager?
Do you really think he goes home at night and says to his wife "You know love, that Mignolet is going to win the Ballon d'Or one day and I'm going to be his manager when he does!"
----
Klopp is a true professional and with this comes loyalty to his current base of players, regardless of anything else. The team comes first!
----
SAF won his last PL with the worst team he ever built. Do you think he let them know that or do you think he just kept on reminding them that they're as good as, if not better than his treble winning team?

That ManUre team was bad but no where near as bad as the refereeing that season. He did not win the title that year with a weak set of players, he won it with some very weak refereeing and was handed the title by the FA as a parting gift