My indictment of the rafa benitez regime

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby nobybob » Mon May 12, 2008 7:19 pm

s@int wrote:We already sold our soul when we sold out to the yanks, now all thats left is haggling over the price.

Liverpool is about winning, always has been and hopefully always will be. When I hear songs celebrating 20years without a title maybe I will change my mind, but until then I will be quite happy to sing about us winning.

If you would rather be loyal and lose thats up to you, personally I think we should get the best players we can rather than the nicest personalities, and the best manager we can. If it was about getting the nicest manager I am pretty sure Roy Evans would still be manager.

i condemn Drogba and his diving and cheating to win (all taught by mureen )


:laugh:

I suppose Rafa holds classes with Gerrard and Torres on diving as well ? :D

I am sorry but if you think football is about playing nice attractive football and winning nothing , you should support West Ham, LFC IS BUILT ON WINNING

Well the lyrics dont say "you will never walk alone as long as your winning "

And sorry but do you really compare stevie and nando with Dogbreath as far as the diving? cos sorry but drog is in a league of his own on that as far as i am concerned.

Yes of course LIVERPOOL is about winning but its also about so much more sportsmanship for example, remember when arsenal won the league with the last kick of the season against us, we all cheered the gunners as much as we did our own lads after the final whistle , and i felt proud to be a Liverpool supporter and proud of the team even though we had lost. Its things like this that makes us special, he is not the special one !, but we are the special ones .Can you not see that Mourinho is the antipathy of all this , a man who looses and cries foul saying "the best team lost" or  "it never crossed the line " a man with no humility, no dignity, Just arrogance.
So no saint its not ALL about winning, its also about how you win and on occasion how you lose.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 7:35 pm

Shankly never accepted that any team EVER beat Liverpool fairly. We were the best team in the world as far as he was concerned and the only way we ever lost was bad luck or poor referees. 5-1 to Ajax (a lucky team of amateurs) 4-1 against the mancs at home (They were lucky and scored 3 goals from corners, we were by far the better team)

Probably the worst football ever played by a Liverpool team was in 1972/3 when we won the league making Wimbledon look like Brazil. Clemance probably had the highest number of assists that season, but I don't remember anyone moaning ...... because we won the league.

Its not all about winning but its certainly not about losing with style either. I would prefer us to win playing the football we played in the late 80's but if the only way we can win is playing like we did in 73 I would take that too.

Are you saying Liverpool players never cheat ? Never dive? Never claim for a corner when they know they were the last player to touch the ball? Drogba may be the outstanding cheat around but there are cheatsand cheating at all clubs. Its just when your team does it its somehow not as bad.
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Postby NANNY RED » Mon May 12, 2008 7:43 pm

nobybob wrote:Yes of course LIVERPOOL is about winning but its also about so much more sportsmanship for example, remember when arsenal won the league with the last kick of the season against us, we all cheered the gunners as much as we did our own lads after the final whistle ,

I was there that night and i must have been one of them supporters who didnt clap. Call me bitter but i was distraught and have never forgiven Michael Thomas. Yes even when he played for us. :laugh:

It took me years to get over that night
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 7:50 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
nobybob wrote:Yes of course LIVERPOOL is about winning but its also about so much more sportsmanship for example, remember when arsenal won the league with the last kick of the season against us, we all cheered the gunners as much as we did our own lads after the final whistle ,

I was there that night and i must have been one of them supporters who didnt clap. Call me bitter but i was distraught and have never forgiven Michael Thomas. Yes even when he played for us. :laugh:

It took me years to get over that night

I went against Leeds in '69 Nanny , when we played them off the field and they cheated and timewasted , pretended they were injured, kicked and fouled our players all night to a 0-0 draw. They clapped Leeds off the pitch that night as well, I just stood there swearing.

The Arsenal game I just try to blank from my memory, its the only way I could cope  :(  I STILL DON'T LIKE THINKING ABOUT IT.
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Postby nobybob » Mon May 12, 2008 7:51 pm

Shankly never accepted that any team EVER beat Liverpool fairly. We were the best team in the world as far as he was concerned and the only way we ever lost was bad luck or poor referees. 5-1 to Ajax (a lucky team of amateurs) 4-1 against the mancs at home (They were lucky and scored 3 goals from corners, we were by far the better team)

And Shanks was right we were the best team in the world , but sorry chelsea under mourinho aint fit to be mentioned in the same breath as shanks Liverpool:D
Are you saying Liverpool players never cheat ? Never dive? Never claim for a corner when they know they were the last player to touch the ball? Drogba may be the outstanding cheat around but there are cheatsand cheating at all clubs. Its just when your team does it its somehow not as bad.

There is a difference here moureen positively encouraged cheating it was part of his teams strategy. And yes i would condemn our players for cheating it is part of everything that is wrong with the game in my opinion.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 7:57 pm

There is a difference here moureen positively encouraged cheating it was part of his teams strategy


I can't remember him ever saying that mate, maybe I missed that press conference?
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Postby NANNY RED » Mon May 12, 2008 8:01 pm

He came back on the scene a couple of weeks ago dropping hints that he wanted another club. I think he thought he was gonna get the Barcelona job , Well i havnt heard of any top club here or in Europe offering him a job so far.
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 8:05 pm

NANNY RED wrote:He came back on the scene a couple of weeks ago dropping hints that he wanted another club. I think he thought he was gonna get the Barcelona job , Well i havnt heard of any top club here or in Europe offering him a job so far.

Maybe he's already on a promise from DIC  :D
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Postby nobybob » Mon May 12, 2008 8:06 pm

s@int wrote:
There is a difference here moureen positively encouraged cheating it was part of his teams strategy


I can't remember him ever saying that mate, maybe I missed that press conference?

he must have told them all to dive because they all started to do it when he became manager.
UNLESS
It might be one of those amazing mysteries of nature like ,

how geese all know their position in the formation whilst off on their annual migration.

Or how fish in a huge shoal all know when to turn at exactly the same time  :D
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 8:16 pm

nobybob wrote:
s@int wrote:
There is a difference here moureen positively encouraged cheating it was part of his teams strategy


I can't remember him ever saying that mate, maybe I missed that press conference?

he must have told them all to dive because they all started to do it when he became manager.
UNLESS
It might be one of those amazing mysteries of nature like ,

how geese all know their position in the formation whilst off on their annual migration.

Or how fish in a huge shoal all know when to turn at exactly the same time  :D

I think its maybe that he bought a lot of players from abroad (as did their previous manager) To be fair, Drogba has hardly toned it down since he left has he? So either their new manager condones diving as well or its just part of Drogba's game?

As for preferring Ferguson, thats all well and good but I don't want to wait another seven years to win the league. He would probably be dead by then anyway  :D
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Postby NANNY RED » Mon May 12, 2008 8:22 pm

s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:He came back on the scene a couple of weeks ago dropping hints that he wanted another club. I think he thought he was gonna get the Barcelona job , Well i havnt heard of any top club here or in Europe offering him a job so far.

Maybe he's already on a promise from DIC  :D

:laugh:  :laugh:

I am and i wish they would hurry up an get in :laugh:

Nah im only messin, i cant help it i know hate is not a nice word to use but i cant help it i really hate the man, and would be mortified if he ever became involved with our club in any shape or form/ Not even the toilet cleaner
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 8:27 pm

NANNY RED wrote:
s@int wrote:
NANNY RED wrote:He came back on the scene a couple of weeks ago dropping hints that he wanted another club. I think he thought he was gonna get the Barcelona job , Well i havnt heard of any top club here or in Europe offering him a job so far.

Maybe he's already on a promise from DIC  :D

:laugh:  :laugh:

I am and i wish they would hurry up an get in :laugh:

Nah im only messin, i cant help it i know hate is not a nice word to use but i cant help it i really hate the man, and would be mortified if he ever became involved with our club in any shape or form/ Not even the toilet cleaner

I do understand , I hate Fat Sam and Ferguson, I only have to see them and I am fuming. I don't watch the mancs unless I know they are losing, just because I hate to see Fergie smiling.

Maureen, I disliked at Chelsea but it never got as far as hate for me, but I can understand how it could for others.
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Postby Wiz7y » Mon May 12, 2008 8:50 pm

José Mourinho is close to agreeing a deal to become the new manager of Inter Milan when the Italian season ends this month. The former Chelsea manager has been out of work since he left Stamford Bridge under a cloud last September, but has made no secret of his desire to return to the dugout and the Italian league leaders have identified him as the man who can take the European Cup back to the club for the first time since... Story is in almost every italian newspaper. You can find it on epltalk etc. I heard he bought a house just outside Milan (monza) as well. We will see. But im for Rafa anyway :D
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Postby NANNY RED » Mon May 12, 2008 9:04 pm

This was written by a lad on Rawk

BSB is the lads name.

Sorry for copying and puttin it here but this lad sums up my entire feelings on Benitez and LFC . outstanding post IMO



The season has now ended. It's time to move on, learn from the mistakes, strengthen where needed and progress. Something we've done every single season under Rafa's tenure.

When he came to the club in the summer of 2004, he joined a club in turmoil. Gerard Houllier had dropped from the heights of the 2001 treble to a serious low in the 2003/04 season. Signings like Salif Diao, Bruno Cheyrou and El Hadji Diouf taking the club backwards instead of forwards. We'd changed from a swift counter attacking side into a defensive unit that looked all at sea. We weren't good. We were horrible to watch and an accident waiting to happen. So much so, Michael Owen decided we had no chance of silverware and off he went to Real Madrid. Our side was crumbling, and some weren't prepared to stay and fight, and give the new manager a chance to turn it around.

In that first season, he exceeded our wildest expectations. Who would have thought that a manager could win The European Cup in his first season in charge, with a team consisting of the likes of Le Tallec, Biscan, Pongolle and co? He inherited Houllier's dregs and worked wonders with them. We finished 5th in the league, after throwing everything at the European assault, and Everton finished above us by default. Resting the likes of Hyypia and replacing him with free transfer stop gap Pellegrino. We didn't have the money to go out and buy big, he had to operate on a shoestring.

We went to Burnley in the FA Cup, and Benitez shuffled the pack. A mix of experienced players on the fringes of the first team, like Biscan and Traore, and a selection of the younger players within the squad. We were beaten 1-0 and Rafa faced the backlash. That game taught him a lot. Firstly, that the FA Cup is not to be taken lightly, it's not like the Spanish Cups. And secondly, that the back up players and youth players at the club just weren't good enough. He responded to that by improving the youth and reserve squads. We needed to have a better squad, and Burnley highlighted that like no other game could. He also responded to the treatment of the FA Cup by going out and winning it the year after. What better way is there to respond than that? He learnt from the mistakes at Burnley and hasn't made them again. Our reserves have just won the league and the youth side are flying. Arsene Wenger brought in some lads from abroad years ago, and is reaping the rewards now with the likes of Fabregas. It's taken him ten years to get that result, we can't expect the same from Benitez in 3 or 4 years. It takes time. He's not here purely to pick players for the first team, he's running the whole club and building the foundations to bring us long term success. He can't go out and spend £80m in one summer like United did last year, we have to do things differently. Some fans don't seem to realise how hard that is.

For years, our record against the other clubs in the infamous top 4 has been embarrassing. This season, we've lost twice to United, but in the 9 games against Arsenal and Chelsea in the league and European Cup, we've won 1, drew 7 and lost 1. We roll over at Stamford Bridge and The Emirates every year. This season, we've been to them grounds 5 times and come away with 4 draws, and a sole defeat in the league cup when we played a makeshift side at Chelsea. Of course we can improve on that. Start beating them sides in the league and we'll get closer. But we're getting there.

The main criticism I hear of the manager, is that he's too negative and changes the side around too much. Well how about these facts. Not opinions, facts:

1. We have scored 119 goals this season in all competitions, more than any other side in the league.

2. Alex Ferguson has made more changes to his side this season than Rafa Benitez.

United rested / rotated / dropped Wayne Rooney 4 times this season. They lost all of those 4 games. Can you imagine the uproar if Torres had missed 4 games and we'd lost them all? Yes, United get away with it because they have won the league. Against every other side in the league, we have taken one more point than them. We have been better than them in every other game over the course of the season. The table proves that. But it's the two games against them that seperate us from the champions. Beat them home and away, we'd have finished ahead of them. Instead, they beat us home and away and took the title. Are we really that far away? Consider we finished 37 points behind Chelsea in 2005.

United also have a far bigger squad than us, and are able to bring in a better quality of squad player than ourselves. That's the result of spending hundreds of millions over a long period. They have tired in recent months, scraping over the line. We've finished the season in style, stronger than anyone else. Proof again that the manager's policy is working. If we had better squad players to come in when needed, we wouldn't be so far behind. United replace quality with quality, as do Chelsea, one look at their benches tells you everything. If we can bring in another 2 or 3 top quality players, it'll make all the difference.

And how can somebody call us defensive with a goal scoring record like that? Then take into account Pepe Reina has kept the most clean sheets in the country yet again, for the third year in succession. That bloody zonal marking again.....

Fernando Torres has not started in 6 league games this season. 3 of those were down to injury so unavailable to the manager. In the 3 other games, we drew 0-0 away at Portsmouth where he came off the bench, drew 0-0 at home with Birmingham where he came off the bench, and came off the bench in another home game that we won, I can't remember who against. So much for him being rested at the start of the season costing us a title challenge. It's a myth.

Some people seem to want instant success. To be able to turn a 37 point deficit around with the champions and win the league, while spending a tiny fraction of what they have in the transfer market.

Last year, United won the title and finished more than 20 points infront of us. We spent a net of around £25m during the summer - they went out and spent a further £50m net - yet we're expected to overtake them, no excuses. Well sorry, it's not as easy as that, and the job Rafa has done, amid all the chaos around the club, to get us this close is a miracle. Back him with money in the summer, clear up the mess in the boardroom, and allow him to take the club another step forward, and who knows what we could achieve.

Then again, we could always sack him and bring in Martin O'Neill and John Aldridge.....

All managers make mistakes. If they never, we'd go through all 38 games winning them all. Show me a side throughout history that has ever done that? United are the champions this season, yet they've lost away at Bolton, West Ham and Man City, and been beaten at home by Man City. Everyone drops points. All managers make mistakes, the same as players, and teams will drop points along the way. To expect anything else is unrealistic.

The spine of our side has never been stronger. Our youth and reserve sides are better than they've been in years. We're closing the gap on the sides above us year after year, despite spending a fraction of what they have in the transfer market. We've won The European Cup and been to another final. We've been in 3 European Cup semi finals in the past 4 years. We've won the FA Cup and had some of the best days and nights of our lives. Thank you Rafael Benitez..!!

Spend wisely this summer. Improve our squad with quality out wide. That title could be ours.

Players and fans alike have to start to treat every league game like a European tie. If we play our part at Anfield and get behind them like we would in Europe - those draws against Wigan and Birmingham will be turned into wins. We accuse the players of not putting it all in against the lesser sides, when we're guilty of it ourselves. Change that attitude, on and off the pitch, and it'll be a huge step into winning that league title.

We have 18 league titles to our name, and for years, we've held a comfortable cushion over the rest. United are now on 17 and breathing right down our necks. It's time for us to roll up our sleeves and push on. What bigger incentive is there for next season? Players and fans. Time to rise to the challenge. Roll on August....
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Postby account deleted by request » Mon May 12, 2008 9:24 pm

Interesting read but filed with half truths and misconceptions. Benitez learned from his mistake against Burnley? Only to repeat it against Luton and Bradford this season.

Beat the mancs home and away and so what ? We STILL WOULDN'T HAVE WON THE LEAGUE, Chelsea would have.

Then we get the "we have no money" excuse - We spent £70million this season - not bad for a club thats skint!

Improve the squad out wide and the title could be ours - we have been waiting 4 years for our squad to be improved out wide, while we have spent our money on midfield players and second rate strikers (excluding Torres of course :D )   

Yes all managers make mistakes, but its usually the one that makes the least that wins the league.
"All teams drop points" but again its the one that drops the least that wins the league.

Why restrict ourselves to old favourites like O'Neil and Aldridge or even Fat Sam as some like to shout in every thread, there are plenty of good managers out there, if Rafa can't do it I know a man who can!!!
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