Liverpool FC Forum

[Stu the Red]

When a highly experienced defender asks you for the ball you probably take notice.

If he's got two men around him and had been flapping all game mate, I'd tell him to f*ck off because I'd value my clean sheet bonus.

[damjan193]

are you serious, do you honestly think BR says "always play from the back even if you have three players around you, I know we might lose a few goals but its worth it"'

No I reckon he would rather they use their heads and a bit of common sense

No, you can't look at it like that. It's easy to look at the whole situation after it happened and talk about what should or shouldn't have been done. In reality it's not like that at all.

For me, it was a pretty standard situation where the manager would expect the players to play the ball out of the defense (considering our system). Toure wasn't even surrounded by that many opposition players. He also had Cissokho on his left and Gerrard through the middle. Sure there were a few opposition players near by but you can't actually expect them to not press us. Had that been Agger instead of Toure he would have dealt with the situation with ease.

I'll go into details here a bit and explain why, in my opinion, Mignolet isn't at fault at all; Toure had the time to receive the ball, turn around, look around, and find a pass. If he couldn't do at least one of those things in bold then the keeper should be blamed. Toure had a lot more time and space than you think. Had Mignolet hoffed that one instead, I'm positive that Brendan would have been angry with him.

I'm pretty sure that we simulate similar situations on training every day, but playing like that is always risky business even if you're Barcelona. Things like this are bound to happen if we want to play like that, and the goalie is most definitely not the one to blame.

[damjan193]

I do agree whole heartedly that Mignolet should make a better decision with regards to the pass as he's facing the play and should see the West Brom players in position. However it was ultimately Toure's f*ck up. Any blame towards the keeper should be very minimal.

At the end of the day, that (or something similar) was always going to happen at some point during the season because of how we play, but I think what happened the other day was a complete freak incident. It wasn't a poor pass to a team mate as such or a basic error, it was simply an empty head moment that anyone can have. It sometimes happens. Toure has proven to be a good signing this season and has put in some good performances and hasn't let us down, so I think to jump on the fella after one bad mistake is a bit harsh.

With regards to the way we play, we should always look to pass out from the back. Good teams always play the ball all over the pitch. We've scored plenty of goals this season through passing it around at the back and it allows us control and allows us to get our better players on the ball.

Is correct.

[Boocity]

are you serious, do you honestly think BR says "always play from the back even if you have three players around you, I know we might lose a few goals but its worth it"'

No I reckon he would rather they use their heads and a bit of common sense

No, you can't look at it like that. It's easy to look at the whole situation after it happened and talk about what should or shouldn't have been done. In reality it's not like that at all.

For me, it was a pretty standard situation where the manager would expect the players to play the ball out of the defense (considering our system). Toure wasn't even surrounded by that many opposition players. He also had Cissokho on his left and Gerrard through the middle. Sure there were a few opposition players near by but you can't actually expect them to not press us. Had that been Agger instead of Toure he would have dealt with the situation with ease.

I'll go into details here a bit and explain why, in my opinion, Mignolet isn't at fault at all; Toure had the time to receive the ball, turn around, look around, and find a pass. If he couldn't do at least one of those things in bold then the keeper should be blamed. Toure had a lot more time and space than you think. Had Mignolet hoffed that one instead, I'm positive that Brendan would have been angry with him.

I'm pretty sure that we simulate similar situations on training every day, but playing like that is always risky business even if you're Barcelona. Things like this are bound to happen if we want to play like that, and the goalie is most definitely not the one to blame.

I am not saying Mig was at fault, I said Kolo was totally to blame, all I am saying is he could look at the situation, the obvious ball on from Kolo was to pass back to mig who would have humped it up the field anyway. maybe if you are well on top you might play the ball out with their guys pushing up to quickly bypass them but not when we are not at our best and defending a 1-0 lead. Don't put yourselves at risk when you don't need to.

[devaney]

I do agree whole heartedly that Mignolet should make a better decision with regards to the pass as he's facing the play and should see the West Brom players in position. However it was ultimately Toure's f*ck up. Any blame towards the keeper should be very minimal.

At the end of the day, that (or something similar) was always going to happen at some point during the season because of how we play, but I think what happened the other day was a complete freak incident. It wasn't a poor pass to a team mate as such or a basic error, it was simply an empty head moment that anyone can have. It sometimes happens. Toure has proven to be a good signing this season and has put in some good performances and hasn't let us down, so I think to jump on the fella after one bad mistake is a bit harsh.

With regards to the way we play, we should always look to pass out from the back. Good teams always play the ball all over the pitch. We've scored plenty of goals this season through passing it around at the back and it allows us control and allows us to get our better players on the ball.

Is correct.

Shit mate don't agree with Stu, it'll go straight to his head. Let's face it, his is an ego that certainly doesn't need massaging  Just imagine what he would have said if it had been Martin Skrtel  Stu would have invented some new expletives !!

[Stu the Red]

are you serious, do you honestly think BR says "always play from the back even if you have three players around you, I know we might lose a few goals but its worth it"'

No I reckon he would rather they use their heads and a bit of common sense

No, you can't look at it like that. It's easy to look at the whole situation after it happened and talk about what should or shouldn't have been done. In reality it's not like that at all.

For me, it was a pretty standard situation where the manager would expect the players to play the ball out of the defense (considering our system). Toure wasn't even surrounded by that many opposition players. He also had Cissokho on his left and Gerrard through the middle. Sure there were a few opposition players near by but you can't actually expect them to not press us. Had that been Agger instead of Toure he would have dealt with the situation with ease.

I'll go into details here a bit and explain why, in my opinion, Mignolet isn't at fault at all; Toure had the time to receive the ball, turn around, look around, and find a pass. If he couldn't do at least one of those things in bold then the keeper should be blamed. Toure had a lot more time and space than you think. Had Mignolet hoffed that one instead, I'm positive that Brendan would have been angry with him.

I'm pretty sure that we simulate similar situations on training every day, but playing like that is always risky business even if you're Barcelona. Things like this are bound to happen if we want to play like that, and the goalie is most definitely not the one to blame.

You can't completely absolve Mignolet of any blame though, the blame on his part is minimal, but he should recognise the situation better. It is a team game, and everything everyone does provokes a reaction of some sort and this is something people fail to understand. Gerrard, Cissokho and Skrtel were not in a position to receive a pass as all of those players were marked fairly tight or the angle wasn't correct. You mention Toure had "time to turn", sorry mate but that's a no. You don't get time in premier league games on the ball unless you earn it with a good touch and 80% of the time its one sharp touch then you need to play the way you're facing... players that can play on a half turn are valued very highly due to this. Toure was put in an uneasy situation. Granted he should have delt with it FAR FAR better but to completely dismiss Mignolet's contribution is again false.

[Stu the Red]

I do agree whole heartedly that Mignolet should make a better decision with regards to the pass as he's facing the play and should see the West Brom players in position. However it was ultimately Toure's f*ck up. Any blame towards the keeper should be very minimal.

At the end of the day, that (or something similar) was always going to happen at some point during the season because of how we play, but I think what happened the other day was a complete freak incident. It wasn't a poor pass to a team mate as such or a basic error, it was simply an empty head moment that anyone can have. It sometimes happens. Toure has proven to be a good signing this season and has put in some good performances and hasn't let us down, so I think to jump on the fella after one bad mistake is a bit harsh.

With regards to the way we play, we should always look to pass out from the back. Good teams always play the ball all over the pitch. We've scored plenty of goals this season through passing it around at the back and it allows us control and allows us to get our better players on the ball.

Is correct.

Shit mate don't agree with Stu, it'll go straight to his head. Let's face it, his is an ego that certainly doesn't need massaging  Just imagine what he would have said if it had been Martin Skrtel  Stu would have invented some new expletives !!

The difference is with Skrtel it would be the norm rather than the exception. He's had two good games in a row recently, can't quite believe it.

[devaney]

Stu you do realise you have just given the lad some credit ?  I just hope this isn't as a result of a personality transplant! I prefer the old thought provoking"whinge for England" version 

[damjan193]

are you serious, do you honestly think BR says "always play from the back even if you have three players around you, I know we might lose a few goals but its worth it"'

No I reckon he would rather they use their heads and a bit of common sense

No, you can't look at it like that. It's easy to look at the whole situation after it happened and talk about what should or shouldn't have been done. In reality it's not like that at all.

For me, it was a pretty standard situation where the manager would expect the players to play the ball out of the defense (considering our system). Toure wasn't even surrounded by that many opposition players. He also had Cissokho on his left and Gerrard through the middle. Sure there were a few opposition players near by but you can't actually expect them to not press us. Had that been Agger instead of Toure he would have dealt with the situation with ease.

I'll go into details here a bit and explain why, in my opinion, Mignolet isn't at fault at all; Toure had the time to receive the ball, turn around, look around, and find a pass. If he couldn't do at least one of those things in bold then the keeper should be blamed. Toure had a lot more time and space than you think. Had Mignolet hoffed that one instead, I'm positive that Brendan would have been angry with him.

I'm pretty sure that we simulate similar situations on training every day, but playing like that is always risky business even if you're Barcelona. Things like this are bound to happen if we want to play like that, and the goalie is most definitely not the one to blame.

You can't completely absolve Mignolet of any blame though, the blame on his part is minimal, but he should recognise the situation better. It is a team game, and everything everyone does provokes a reaction of some sort and this is something people fail to understand. Gerrard, Cissokho and Skrtel were not in a position to receive a pass as all of those players were marked fairly tight or the angle wasn't correct. You mention Toure had "time to turn", sorry mate but that's a no. You don't get time in premier league games on the ball unless you earn it with a good touch and 80% of the time its one sharp touch then you need to play the way you're facing... players that can play on a half turn are valued very highly due to this. Toure was put in an uneasy situation. Granted he should have delt with it FAR FAR better but to completely dismiss Mignolet's contribution is again false.

I still can't blame Mign because I think that it was a standard situation for us that we most likely have simulated during training sessions. Rodgers wants us to play like that, and if you want to play like that then situations like this will be common and more often than not our players will be in a similar position as Kolo, maybe even worse.

I'm glad that you've acknowledged the importance of him being able to turn, and if you look at the situation again you'll see that he had just about enough time to do it (or at least as much as you'll ever be allowed in the prem during high pressure like that). His body was in a good enough position and he should have been able to pass the ball to a team mate or pass it back to the keeper if need be.

To both Stu and Boocity, I'm not saying that I like what we're doing, trying to pass the ball around while we're under high pressure. I am very much against that. But that's how Rodgers wants us to play. In few instances he got angry with the players (made an angry face) because they chose to hoof it rather than pass it, even though they were under huge pressure. So if you want to blame someone, blame the system, not Mignolet.

[Stu the Red]

I still can't blame Mign because I think that it was a standard situation for us that we most likely have simulated during training sessions. Rodgers wants us to play like that, and if you want to play like that then situations like this will be common and more often than not our players will be in a similar position as Kolo, maybe even worse.

I'm glad that you've acknowledged the importance of him being able to turn, and if you look at the situation again you'll see that he had just about enough time to do it (or at least as much as you'll ever be allowed in the prem during high pressure like that). His body was in a good enough position and he should have been able to pass the ball to a team mate or pass it back to the keeper if need be.

To both Stu and Boocity, I'm not saying that I like what we're doing, trying to pass the ball around while we're under high pressure. I am very much against that. But that's how Rodgers wants us to play. In few instances he got angry with the players (made an angry face) because they chose to hoof it rather than pass it, even though they were under huge pressure. So if you want to blame someone, blame the system, not Mignolet.

Again you miss the point. If you turn in a match you don't always have time to see a ball, Mignolet should never have given him that pass. End of. The only pass that was on was a return to the keeper, who'd have then had to hoof it, these subtle differences are the ones that make players good enough and not good enough. Reina would not have played that pass and had he done, you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have recognised his mistake and asked for it back and cleared, not like Simon who done nothing.

Passing the ball around pressure is fine, however, passing a ball to a defender facing his own goal and having no options on is poor decision making. When playing a game you don't pass to someone who's going to struggle to retain possession, you look for a ball that allows someone to help the player in position. If there is nothing on, you simply get rid. Mignolet gave it to someone who had nothing on, instead of recognising that.

Every goal has a proportion of blame to each player involved, dismiss Mignolets part is quite frankly naïve.

[supersub]

I still can't blame Mign because I think that it was a standard situation for us that we most likely have simulated during training sessions. Rodgers wants us to play like that, and if you want to play like that then situations like this will be common and more often than not our players will be in a similar position as Kolo, maybe even worse.

I'm glad that you've acknowledged the importance of him being able to turn, and if you look at the situation again you'll see that he had just about enough time to do it (or at least as much as you'll ever be allowed in the prem during high pressure like that). His body was in a good enough position and he should have been able to pass the ball to a team mate or pass it back to the keeper if need be.

To both Stu and Boocity, I'm not saying that I like what we're doing, trying to pass the ball around while we're under high pressure. I am very much against that. But that's how Rodgers wants us to play. In few instances he got angry with the players (made an angry face) because they chose to hoof it rather than pass it, even though they were under huge pressure. So if you want to blame someone, blame the system, not Mignolet.

Again you miss the point. If you turn in a match you don't always have time to see a ball, Mignolet should never have given him that pass. End of. The only pass that was on was a return to the keeper, who'd have then had to hoof it, these subtle differences are the ones that make players good enough and not good enough. Reina would not have played that pass and had he done, you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have recognised his mistake and asked for it back and cleared, not like Simon who done nothing.

Passing the ball around pressure is fine, however, passing a ball to a defender facing his own goal and having no options on is poor decision making. When playing a game you don't pass to someone who's going to struggle to retain possession, you look for a ball that allows someone to help the player in position. If there is nothing on, you simply get rid. Mignolet gave it to someone who had nothing on, instead of recognising that.

Every goal has a proportion of blame to each player involved, dismiss Mignolets part is quite frankly naïve.

I agree with stu

[Stu the Red]

I still can't blame Mign because I think that it was a standard situation for us that we most likely have simulated during training sessions. Rodgers wants us to play like that, and if you want to play like that then situations like this will be common and more often than not our players will be in a similar position as Kolo, maybe even worse.

I'm glad that you've acknowledged the importance of him being able to turn, and if you look at the situation again you'll see that he had just about enough time to do it (or at least as much as you'll ever be allowed in the prem during high pressure like that). His body was in a good enough position and he should have been able to pass the ball to a team mate or pass it back to the keeper if need be.

To both Stu and Boocity, I'm not saying that I like what we're doing, trying to pass the ball around while we're under high pressure. I am very much against that. But that's how Rodgers wants us to play. In few instances he got angry with the players (made an angry face) because they chose to hoof it rather than pass it, even though they were under huge pressure. So if you want to blame someone, blame the system, not Mignolet.

Again you miss the point. If you turn in a match you don't always have time to see a ball, Mignolet should never have given him that pass. End of. The only pass that was on was a return to the keeper, who'd have then had to hoof it, these subtle differences are the ones that make players good enough and not good enough. Reina would not have played that pass and had he done, you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have recognised his mistake and asked for it back and cleared, not like Simon who done nothing.

Passing the ball around pressure is fine, however, passing a ball to a defender facing his own goal and having no options on is poor decision making. When playing a game you don't pass to someone who's going to struggle to retain possession, you look for a ball that allows someone to help the player in position. If there is nothing on, you simply get rid. Mignolet gave it to someone who had nothing on, instead of recognising that.

Every goal has a proportion of blame to each player involved, dismiss Mignolets part is quite frankly naïve.

I agree with stu

That's twice in a season... are you feeling alright?

[supersub]

[quote="[url=http://www.liverpoolfc-newkit.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1228859#p1228859]
I'm glad that you've acknowledged the importance of him being able to turn, and if you look at the situation again you'll see that he had just about enough time to do it (or at least as much as you'll ever be allowed in the prem during high pressure like that). His body was in a good enough position and he should have been able to pass the ball to a team mate or pass it back to the keeper if need be.

To both Stu and Boocity, I'm not saying that I like what we're doing, trying to pass the ball around while we're under high pressure. I am very much against that. But that's how Rodgers wants us to play. In few instances he got angry with the players (made an angry face) because they chose to hoof it rather than pass it, even though they were under huge pressure. So if you want to blame someone, blame the system, not Mignolet.

Again you miss the point. If you turn in a match you don't always have time to see a ball, Mignolet should never have given him that pass. End of. The only pass that was on was a return to the keeper, who'd have then had to hoof it, these subtle differences are the ones that make players good enough and not good enough. Reina would not have played that pass and had he done, you can bet your bottom dollar he'd have recognised his mistake and asked for it back and cleared, not like Simon who done nothing.

Passing the ball around pressure is fine, however, passing a ball to a defender facing his own goal and having no options on is poor decision making. When playing a game you don't pass to someone who's going to struggle to retain possession, you look for a ball that allows someone to help the player in position. If there is nothing on, you simply get rid. Mignolet gave it to someone who had nothing on, instead of recognising that.

Every goal has a proportion of blame to each player involved, dismiss Mignolets part is quite frankly naïve.

I agree with stu

That's twice in a season... are you feeling alright? [/quote]

I have questioned myself about this strange occurrence and realised that it was in fact you talking sense for once, which is a breath of fresh air....

[supersub]

bring back the Russian doll problem

[7_Kewell]

I like Toure...I really do, but he has to be dropped...with Agger fit he is too much of a liability at this stage of the season.  Thanks Kolo, but you'll be more useful as a squad player next year with the cups and Europe