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Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby red--sangria » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:32 pm

s@int wrote:IFK Göteborg
Svenska Cupen Winners 1979, 1982
Allsvenskan Champions 1981, 1982
UEFA Cup Winners 1982
S.L. Benfica
Portuguese Liga Champions 1983, 1984, 1991
Cup of Portugal Winners 1983
SuperCup Cândido de Oliveira Champions 1989
European Cup Runners Up 1990
UEFA Cup Runners Up 1983
A.S. Roma
Coppa Italia Winners 1986
U.C. Sampdoria
Coppa Italia Winners 1994
S.S. Lazio
Coppa Italia Winners 1998, 2000
Italian Super Cup Winners 1998
UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Winners 1999
UEFA Super Cup Winners 1999
Serie A Champions 2000





Sven :D

not in the last 5 years...
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Postby Sabre » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:33 pm

s@int wrote:Sven :D

But S@int, he sacrificed Gerrard a lot in the ENglish team, and didn't appreciate Carra enough. So the awards list is irrelevant  :D
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:34 pm

He was busy the last five years winning World cups with England  :(
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Postby NANNY RED » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:38 pm

s@int wrote:He was busy the last five years winning World cups with England  :(

Quality :D
HE WHO BETRAYS WILL ALWAYS WALK ALONE
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Postby Emerald Red » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:40 pm

Good post, and well put. It's views like these that help to remind people, especially the moaners on here, that there cannot be a yin without a yang. We WILL have our bad days. When they come, however, is relevent to the overall outlook to the season. These currnt bad displays are salvagable. Imagine had they come when we were in the knockout stages of the CL, or in the final stages of the Premiership where we were at the same league possition with 6 games to go. Big difference. We have the time and games left to set things right. I have the faith.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:42 pm

Its impossible nowerdays to compare managers on what they have won. Money plays such a large part now that without it a great manager would struggle to win more than the odd cup. At one time the manager built the team and maybe bought a few of players to finish the jigsaw, today the manager buys the team and maybe includes a few players who come through the ranks.

You still need to be a good manager even with the money ,but without it you have no chance now.
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Postby Emerald Red » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:49 pm

Smeg wrote:and ability to make our best player feel unwanted back that up.

Who would that be? And please don't say Peter Crouch.
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Postby bigmick » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:50 pm

To be honest the media and the tabloids have got a lot to answer for. That fecker Andy Gray. It wasn't until he started going on about rotation, and I read it in the tabloids (they're excellent over here in New Zealand, full to the brim with English Premier League opinions) that it dawned on me that we might be rotating the team a fraction too much. Up until that point, I just thought the players were having differnet haircuts every week to keep the opposition confused.

Previously I thought 67 changes in twelve matches was nothing out of the ordinary, it wasn't until Andy said that in actual fact that is even higher than most other clubs that I started to think "hang on, maybe it's not a collective bug which has swept through Melwood rendering all the players sh!te at absolutely the same time  ??? )". Anyway I've checked up and it does seem to be quite a lot.

Next week he's apparently going to be talking about zonal marking. I know he's not much of a believer, but as I am completely incapable of coming to any sort of conclusion myself about anything to do with Association Football, I think I'll see if I can't get one of those streamer things to work for me on the Internet. I know we don't concede many goals, but such is my "fickleness" that if Andy says its bad, you can expect to see mee on here slagging it off instantly.
Last edited by bigmick on Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sabre » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:55 pm

bigmick wrote:To be honest the media and the tabloids have got a lot to answer for. That fecker Andy Gray. It wasn't until he started going on about rotation, and I read it in the tabloids (they're excellent over here in New Zealand, full to the brim with English Premier League opinions) that it dawned on me that we might be rotating the team a fraction too much. Up until that point, I just thought the players were having differnet haircuts every week to keep the opposition confused.

Previously I thought 67 changes in twelve matches was nothing out of the ordinary, it wasn't until Andy said that in actual fact that is even higher than most other clubs that I started to think "hang on, maybe it's not a collective bug which has swept through Melwood rendering all the players sh!te at absolutely the same time  ??? )". Anyway I've checked up and it does seem to be quite a lot.

Next week he's apparently going to be talking about zonal marking. I know he's not much of a believer, but as I am completely incapable of coming to any sort of conclusion myself about anything to do with Association Football, I think I'll see if I can't get one of those streamer things to work for me on the Internet. I know we don't concede many golas, but such is my "fickleness" that if Andy says its bad, you can expect to see mee on here slagging it off instantly.

I get the irony, but answer this question to yourself, do not answer here, do you think you're the "common" footie fan that reads the tabloid, or do you think instead that you know your footie and you have your own opinions?

It's the latter IMO. Around here, in pubs, in small football pitches of lads, I've talked with many men that know tons more of footie than me (which is not difficult). More than once disagreed with me about a player, or had different opinions, I have nothing against opposite opinions to mine.

But at the same time mate, I do think there's some truth in the influence tabloids have in the footie opinion of the people. They do have an influence.
Last edited by Sabre on Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby account deleted by request » Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:55 pm

Emerald Red wrote:
Smeg wrote:and ability to make our best player feel unwanted back that up.

Who would that be? And please don't say Peter Crouch.

Diao ? He never felt wanted  :down:
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Postby LFC2007 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:05 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:Why are you posting Rafa’s achievements? Members of this forum know Rafa’s achievements however past achievements do not immune Rafa from criticism. Rafa is human like you or me, we make mistakes, and so what makes Rafa different from us? 

Post as much statistics as you want, but some fans are not wrong for feeling an air of discontent with Rafa’s methods.

Is it not a coincidence that with 67 changes in 12 games there is little continuity in the team, consistency in performances and results? Rafa has made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes in the future. The test for Rafa is whether he corrects such mistakes or allows the repetition of these mistakes to continue.

If Rafa can correct his mistakes and acknowledges that he has made mistakes instead of being stubborn than that’s half the battle for the Premiership won IMO.

1) I don't think 'red Sangria' was using a list of Rafa's achievements as a reason not to criticise him. He was, as far as I can see, using Rafa's achievements as a point against what Stu said - that is - that Rafa is 'nowhere near the best manager (in Europe)'. I think it's fair to say, he has a point.

2) Much of what you say is debatable, it is not fact, the tone of your post suggests you believe it's fact, but perhaps I'm wrong.
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Postby Wilhelmsson » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:13 pm

1) I don't think 'red Sangria' was using a list of Rafa's achievements as a reason not to criticise him. He was, as far as I can see, using Rafa's achievements as a point against what Stu said - that is - that Rafa is 'nowhere near the best manager (in Europe)'. I think it's fair to say, he has a point.

2) Much of what you say is debatable, it is not fact, the tone of your post suggests you believe it's fact, but perhaps I'm wrong


Maybe you are correct, but it seemed to me at the time that RS used Rafa timeline of success to dismiss Smeg’s comment that Rafa isn’t the finest manager around at the moment.

And secondly, I put IMO in most of my posts, maybe you don’t know what it means, it means in my opinion.
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Postby LFC2007 » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:17 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:And secondly, I put IMO in most of my posts, maybe you don’t know what it means, it means in my opinion.

Oh right, there was me thinking it meant 'I'm Making an Omelette'
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Postby bigmick » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:20 pm

There's no question that the media influences opinion Sabes. I hope that throughout all of the debate visa vis rotation I've tried to remain broadly sensible, accomodating to the other peoples point of view etc but unfortunately, we don't get the same accomodation from many of the pro's.

Disloyalty/fickleness. This is the first resort of those that seek to diminish their opponent in a discussion. You can't disagree with the manager bacause it's disloyal. You're a bandwagon jumper, a glory hunter, you love Steven Gerrard.

Tabloid reader. If you disagree with Rafa, you believe every word in the tabloids and every word on the footie shows. You didn't come to the conclusions you came to by yourself because you are a numpty. Andy Gray, all those ex players and managers, Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho, everybody in fact who disagrees is also wrong. Rafa though, is right.

It's because you don't go to the games.

Rotation, regardless of how many changes you make, regardless of who those rotated people are, and regardless of who you are playing against has absolutely no effect whatsoever, nil, nado, zip, none on the fluency of the passing and movement of the team.

67 changes to the team in twelve matches is perfectly fair and reasonable. Over egging it a bit? Nah.

International breaks tire our players out and they need rest. As none of us spend time on the training pitch at Melwood, any observations visa vis rest periods are completey non sensical to make, and instantly render the commenter a numpty.

All non rotationers want to play the same eleven players every week. Just like we did in the old days. Most people who beleive Rafa over rotates the team are in fact over 83 years of age.

We won the Champions League because of rotation. Infact all the good performances over the last three years are becasue the players have been fresh, leaping around like Gazelles. The bad performances however, were nothing whatsoever to do with rotation. Obviously.

Those who oppose rotation also opposed zonal marking. Therefore they have been proven wrong once and are clueless.

Having an idea of how good you think the team is in relation to the other teams in the league, and an idea of where you hope to finish at the end of the season is ridiculous. You should just see what happens.

Each time you sign a couple of players, it's not until the end of the following season that the signing can be judged success or failure. As long as the manager signs a couple fo players per season, he should be given a job for life.

Last season, 21 points behind the Champions was a fair reflection on how good we are. Infact, rotation helped us get there. Also, it helped us put out the Champions of Spain and England on the way to the Champions league final. We beat both teams because we were so much fresher, sprinting around and mentaly sharp. When Chelsea were palpably the stronger, fitter team in extra time at Anfield though, and when ilan outran us in the final, that was not a failure of the rotation system. It was just one of those things.

I'm all for people not rowing with each other but really, it is hard to take some arguments seriously sometimes.
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Postby red--sangria » Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:22 pm

Wilhelmsson wrote:
1) I don't think 'red Sangria' was using a list of Rafa's achievements as a reason not to criticise him. He was, as far as I can see, using Rafa's achievements as a point against what Stu said - that is - that Rafa is 'nowhere near the best manager (in Europe)'. I think it's fair to say, he has a point.

2) Much of what you say is debatable, it is not fact, the tone of your post suggests you believe it's fact, but perhaps I'm wrong


Maybe you are correct, but it seemed to me at the time that RS used Rafa timeline of success to dismiss Smeg’s comment that Rafa isn’t the finest manager around at the moment.

And secondly, I put IMO in most of my posts, maybe you don’t know what it means, it means in my opinion.

sorry mate .it not to you
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