Clearout at liverpool - 5 coaches sacked ?

Liverpool Football Club - General Discussion

Postby account deleted by request » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:56 am

Interesting read (to anyone but Kharhaz :D)  about the youth team

Two wins in eleven league games since the turn of the year. A disappointing return for Liverpool’s U18s side, but anyone who has watched the team recently will know that Liverpool can have no complaints about the results. The performances have been extremely poor.

I see several things as contributing factors to this alarming development. One is that the organisation at the academy seems to still be up in the air. For instance, at Wednesday’s game at Manchester City you had Hughie McAuley on the bench giving instructions while Piet Hamberg and his assistant were in the stands doing the same. And given the fact that they aren’t shouting the same instructions, who are the lads supposed to listen to? Where is the overall game plan? Is it just to work hard and show commitment? I honestly think the players aren’t sure.

Coaching staff at the academy may still have worries about whether or not they are going to be kept on for next season as the Dutchman gets to grip with life at the academy. And undoubtedly this affects training and the general mood around the players. Imagine your boss going round moping or worrying over losing his/her job. You’d pick up on it in no time and it has an immediate effect on the learning environment.

Players certainly look like they aren’t enjoying their football at the moment and morale seems at a low point as we head towards the end of the season. In games nobody shouts encouragement and there is no sign of team spirit in the side. Nobody plays with that smile on their faces or that spring in their step. You can tell when a player is enjoying himself, but nobody is. Actually, I tell a lie as Lauri Dalla Valle was the exception when he came on for his U18s debut in the game at City. He was the only one to crack a smile.

It’s almost like they would rather be somewhere else, but who would want their job to be anywhere else than on a football pitch? We’re dealing with young boys of 16 and 17 years of age. They are not machines, and they are not experienced professionals. They are kids and it is hard to blame them for letting outside influences affect them. When even Steven Gerrard admits that off the field problems had an effect on the first team earlier in the season, how can these kids be expected to be any different? Certainly, several of them seem to have been halted in their development.

Team spirit also seems to be extremely low and I don’t know if the players don’t like each other or whatever it is. Marvin Pourie, however, seems particularly unpopular as he is extremely single-minded on the pitch. Earlier in the season he had arguments with Michael Collins on the pitch, but a defining moment was when he grabbed the ball from Nathan Eccleston to take a penalty against Everton. His team mates looked like they were almost celebrating when he missed!

If he is allowed to play that way, it is only natural that some of the others will be the same with him. But shouldn’t that be dealt with by the coaching staff? If I can see this simply by watching the team every fortnight or so, surely they can as well?

On Wednesday, the team was passed off the park by an admittedly good City side who are in this year’s FA Youth Cup final. But considering that the academy has brought in players from Germany, Sweden, Denmark and from other clubs in the UK, probably at great expense, shouldn’t we be able to compete with them? And shouldn’t we expect to beat the Derby Counties, Stokes and Huddersfields?

Another contributing factor, I’m sure, is that none of the players know what is going to happen to them next season. Will they be moved to Melwood, where they already have far too many players (and loads more to come back from loan spells), or stay at the academy for another season? Or will they be getting their contracts paid up like Michael Collins? They don’t know.

It was obvious to anyone watching Wednesday’s game that tactically, Man City were by far the better team. They passed it crisply, they were patient, and they played it from one side to the other. And they looked for space between our midfield and defence. When they found it, they played the ball sensibly to players making dangerous runs. They created a string of good chances and should have won the game comfortably in the end.

In contrast, Liverpool’s attacks were a lesson in what not to do when in possession. And they have been in almost every game I have seen in the last few months.

Typically, one player will move forward with the ball until facing an opponent. He will then wait until there is no other option available to him than to pass it. However, at that point the player he is giving it to will have had to check his run or stop completely, so when he gets it, he is stood still. In other words, you lose any kind of fluidity in your play, and it makes going past players much more difficult.

And when you attack like that, it becomes relatively easy even for ordinary sides to defend against. All you need to do is be organised and put pressure on the player with the ball. And that’s what those aforementioned sides have been doing against us with such great success.

But if spectators can see this, I’m sure the staff can too. If not, it really is an alarming situation for the academy players.

Individually, we are talking about a talented group of players – not as good as some make out, however – and they can’t be blamed for everything because they can only respond to a situation. I’d like to see evidence that players are trying to stick to a more well-defined game plan and losing would be easier to take.

Move the ball around, play it earlier to each other, and work to find space. Use your individual skills to make each other look better. Be a team. If there is a game plan now, then I assume it’s not what the players are doing on the pitch. But then we must deal with that problem.

It really is that simple. If “amateur” spectators can spot this, staff can too.

For months they haven’t been playing as a team at all, and Hamberg, Owens, Elias and McAuley will have to spend some serious time getting to the root of it.

Is it just that this year’s group, socially, does not work well together as a unit? Or is there something fundamentally wrong with the organisation following Steve Heighway’s exit last summer. If it is the latter, then it really needs to be addressed in the summer one way or the other before we waste another year and lose out on other potential targets who will be unwilling to join an academy in turmoil.

The players look stressed, and they don’t seem to enjoy football at all. It really is strange because at this age they should be raring to go and raring to learn. Instead, it seems like a get-up-early-Monday-morning slog for them.

Last game of the season is a trip to Leeds this weekend and then I believe there is a trip to America on the horizon. But the boys will be desperate for a break from it all.

ripped from TLW
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:02 am

Interesting read (to anyone but Kharhaz )  about the youth team


What better way to justify ones arguments? Once again someone elses opinion other than yours.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:07 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Interesting read (to anyone but Kharhaz )  about the youth team


What better way to justify ones arguments? Once again someone elses opinion other than yours.

How often do you go and watch the youth team ? I never see the youth team play. So my opinion wouldn't be of much value would it ?

I think the youth team is great and they are all going to be world stars, half of them are better than Maradona was at his peak.

WTF are you on ?
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:17 am

s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Interesting read (to anyone but Kharhaz )  about the youth team


What better way to justify ones arguments? Once again someone elses opinion other than yours.

How often do you go and watch the youth team ? I never see the youth team play. So my opinion wouldn't be of much value would it ?

I think the youth team is great and they are all going to be world stars, half of them are better than Maradona was at his peak.

WTF are you on ?

WTF am I on? The hours getting late, I have responded to your questions and now you are struggling for answers, My opinion is clear, when you have an answer to most things, without the need for quoting media opinions, you speak like a supporter of the club, and in this I agree with your opinions, what I dont like is your continued topics of what the press release. I wont lower myself into getting into petty arguments about the things I hate. And in that I have made myself clear. You have justified yourself in your answers as have I, its up to you in which course you choose, will you have an opinion of your own or will you choose press releases as to what you agree with? Whatever you choose I grow tired of airing my views towards the press.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:18 am

get a room you two   :D
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:25 am

peewee wrote:get a room you two   :D

:wwww  Oh the irony !
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:26 am

Kharhaz wrote:
s@int wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:
Interesting read (to anyone but Kharhaz )  about the youth team


What better way to justify ones arguments? Once again someone elses opinion other than yours.

How often do you go and watch the youth team ? I never see the youth team play. So my opinion wouldn't be of much value would it ?

I think the youth team is great and they are all going to be world stars, half of them are better than Maradona was at his peak.

WTF are you on ?

WTF am I on? The hours getting late, I have responded to your questions and now you are struggling for answers, My opinion is clear, when you have an answer to most things, without the need for quoting media opinions, you speak like a supporter of the club, and in this I agree with your opinions, what I dont like is your continued topics of what the press release. I wont lower myself into getting into petty arguments about the things I hate. And in that I have made myself clear. You have justified yourself in your answers as have I, its up to you in which course you choose, will you have an opinion of your own or will you choose press releases as to what you agree with? Whatever you choose I grow tired of airing my views towards the press.

You didn't answer my question, how often do you go and watch the youth team play?

Your moaning and groaning, but I don't remember seeing ANY of your illuminating football opinions. I can't remember one post you have made more than a few lines long ABOUT FOOTBALL.

Plenty of posts moaning and groaning about the Mods or various threads being locked etc, but precious few about football.

I like to read about football, I like to learn about football what I don't like is someone who bangs on about "freedom of speech " telling me what I should or shouldn't post.

I give my opinions and explain them, I also post things I find of interest as others may find them interesting too. If you don't ..... tough. Move on to the next thread.
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Postby Kharhaz » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:38 am

Your moaning and groaning, but I don't remember seeing ANY of your illuminating football opinions. I can't remember one post you have made more than a few lines long ABOUT FOOTBALL.

Plenty of posts moaning and groaning about the Mods or various threads being locked etc, but precious few about football.

I like to read about football, I like to learn about football what I don't like is someone who bangs on about "freedom of speech " telling me what I should or shouldn't post.

I give my opinions and explain them, I also post things I find of interest as others may find them interesting too. If you don't ..... tough. Move on to the next thread.


Are you confusing me with someone else? a couple of times you have mentioned the freedom of speech, and to my recollection I have never whinged about this. At the the start of the new intake of mods I whinged but since then not a word from me, im happy with what they have done for this forum. I can only ask the mods for there opinion on this because as far as I know I havent complained about what you are accusing me off.
Last edited by Kharhaz on Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bill Shankly: “I was the best manager in Britain because I was never devious or cheated anyone. I’d break my wife’s legs if I played against her, but I’d never cheat her.”
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Postby 112-1077774096 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:55 am

Kharhaz wrote:
peewee wrote:get a room you two   :D

:wwww  Oh the irony !

:wwww  :wwww
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Postby NiftyNeil » Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:52 am

peewee wrote:get a room you two   :D

Peewee vs Leon mk2  :D
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Postby maypaxvobiscum » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:15 am

kharhaz, get yourself in here
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Postby account deleted by request » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:36 am

Kharhaz wrote:
Your moaning and groaning, but I don't remember seeing ANY of your illuminating football opinions. I can't remember one post you have made more than a few lines long ABOUT FOOTBALL.

Plenty of posts moaning and groaning about the Mods or various threads being locked etc, but precious few about football.

I like to read about football, I like to learn about football what I don't like is someone who bangs on about "freedom of speech " telling me what I should or shouldn't post.

I give my opinions and explain them, I also post things I find of interest as others may find them interesting too. If you don't ..... tough. Move on to the next thread.


Are you confusing me with someone else? a couple of times you have mentioned the freedom of speech, and to my recollection I have never whinged about this. At the the start of the new intake of mods I whinged but since then not a word from me, im happy with what they have done for this forum. I can only ask the mods for there opinion on this because as far as I know I havent complained about what you are accusing me off.

Why is it all the new mods are becoming obsessed with locking new topics being opened? It seems we cant talk about anything now because they are governing what is being said and what isnt. Latest argument was between 2 mods. If anyone else says something that they dont agree with then there opinion is either deleted or locked ! CHRIST SAKE its like we voted for new labour to take over this forum ! Comments in quick this will be locked in no time !


:D

As I said if you don't like a thread just move on to the next one. Or better still try starting a footballing thread and talking about football instead of just fkn moaning all the time.
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Postby RedBlood » Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:50 am

calm down calm down :laugh:
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Postby bigmick » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:00 am

Well whatever anybody else thinks about the validity of the thread, if we really are losing youth games on a regualr basis to the likes of Scunthorpe and Stoke then clearly something is up and for me it's more worthy of discussion on here than mnay things which rack up lots of replies (half of my threads to name but a few :D). Either the much vaunted policy of scouring the globe for various expensive youngsters while largely ignoring young British talent is not really working, or the coaching is garbage or both.

My money is on a little bit of both as I can't actually believe that all the players we have spent many hours scouting, recruiting and nurturing are actually worse than the lads off the local estate at Scunthorpe, but by the same token I do feel that we overlook the possibility that one or two British kids might also be quite good a little too readily. Goodness only knows who will sign a Gerrard, a Carragher, an Owen or a Fowler should they come through these days. My suspicion is that it's probably less likely to be us than it was a few years back.
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Postby Emerald Red » Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:43 am

peewee wrote:get a room you two   :D

HA!

I was about to post those very words before I seen your post. Like two old grannies there, them two.  :p

Edit - So, S@int, did you find any more information on this, mate? I'd go and Google, but I'm tired, lazy and can't be f*cked to be honest. It'd be very interesting if true. I'd like to know more. You brought the topic up! Get on the ball, man!  :D
Last edited by Emerald Red on Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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