Liverpool FC Forum

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

I don't really write Benitez into the Owen saga . Whoever came in as manager at the start of this last season was handed a bowl of sh'it salad to deal with. Rafa , being the type of guy he is cut his losses and moved on.

The person who ultimately was responsible for that salad being prepared and served was the chairman . Nice as he is , we've gotta step up our game in the boardroom as much as we have on the pitch.

there`s still some people on here who seem to blame the club for selling owen and wont accept he left the club by his choice. but you seem the opposite.
i dont agree with you but i admire you stance where you would sell any player the moment they dont sign or re sign a deal on the table in front of them. from what i can gather you would have sold owen with two years left on his contract?
that was the only way we would have got more money for him. it would indeed have been a strong move by a chairman to insist owen was sold against the wishes of the manager and supporters.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I don't really write Benitez into the Owen saga . Whoever came in as manager at the start of this last season was handed a bowl of sh'it salad to deal with. Rafa , being the type of guy he is cut his losses and moved on.

The person who ultimately was responsible for that salad being prepared and served was the chairman . Nice as he is , we've gotta step up our game in the boardroom as much as we have on the pitch.

there`s still some people on here who seem to blame the club for selling owen and wont accept he left the club by his choice. but you seem the opposite.
i dont agree with you but i admire you stance where you would sell any player the moment they dont sign or re sign a deal on the table in front of them. from what i can gather you would have sold owen with two years left on his contract?
that was the only way we would have got more money for him. it would indeed have been a strong move by a chairman to insist owen was sold against the wishes of the manager and supporters.

They should have started negotiating when he had 2 and a half years on his contract then in the summer when he still had 2 years on his contract he should have been told to stop pi$$ing about, sign before preseason or you can leave.

To let a player keep stringing us along like that until he had 11 months on his contract was a very poor handling of the situation by the chairman.

[yckatbjywtbiastkamb]

I don't really write Benitez into the Owen saga . Whoever came in as manager at the start of this last season was handed a bowl of sh'it salad to deal with. Rafa , being the type of guy he is cut his losses and moved on.

The person who ultimately was responsible for that salad being prepared and served was the chairman . Nice as he is , we've gotta step up our game in the boardroom as much as we have on the pitch.

there`s still some people on here who seem to blame the club for selling owen and wont accept he left the club by his choice. but you seem the opposite.
i dont agree with you but i admire you stance where you would sell any player the moment they dont sign or re sign a deal on the table in front of them. from what i can gather you would have sold owen with two years left on his contract?
that was the only way we would have got more money for him. it would indeed have been a strong move by a chairman to insist owen was sold against the wishes of the manager and supporters.

They should have started negotiating when he had 2 and a half years on his contract then in the summer when he still had 2 years on his contract he should have been told to stop pi$$ing about, sign before preseason or you can leave.

To let a player keep stringing us along like that until he had 11 months on his contract was a very poor handling of the situation by the chairman.

we were not in the position to dictate terms to owen who at the time along with gerrard were the only reason we were doing anything as a football team.
a houllier team without owen was a potential nightmare for most fans because most weeks we didnt look like scoring with him in the side never mind out of it.
considering we were in the middle of the worst run of results for fifty years at home and hadn`t come back from conceeding the first goal in a game for nearly two years and had a squad full of over priced journeymen it would have been a brave move by moores to give a take it or leave it ultimatum to our main goalscorer.
these days under rafa when the team is successful its easier to give the old take it or leave it to players but back then when the club looked in freefall the fans wouldnt have understood.

[JBG]

Moores can be happy with himself after the amazing success' of the last year but I'm not a fan.

He has always backed up his managers and is a decent guy, but as the guy who controls the club the buck stops with him. He made some terrible decisions in the 1990s and he was as guilty as anybody for the club going into decline.

He's apparently a nice man and he cannot be faulted for not backing his managers with hard cash but at the end of it all he presided over a decade and a half of decline, and thats the bigger picture.

If Benitez leads us back to a new golden era I'll take my hat off to Moores, but until Rafa does the 1990s remain a very big stain on Moores' record.

His supporters can tell me to go and myself (and no doubt they will ) but to that I just have to say: 15 years without a Championship.

[115-1073096938]

I'd go another 15 years doing what we've done if i was GARENTEED that would happen again.

Mind you, the fact he's brought us the biggest prize ever in club football doesn't count for anything because he's backed all his managers and gave them all a chance over the years and one came close to giving us what we wanted but not quite close enough, of course, Moores should have sacked Houllier as soon as we lost a game in the 2002-2003 sesaon.

This is part of the reason we have Benitez now. Full backing, time to do what he feels needs to be done, financial backing and a chairman who lets the MANAGER MANAGE the club (not the team) and someone who won't sack him the minute he makes a mistake.

[ivor_the_injun]

You know what? Given what's going on behind the scenes at Chelsea and Man U, not the mention some of the shameful headline-grabbing by Arsenal's hierachy, I wouldn't swap Moores and Parry for the world.

Yes, we got shafted on the Owen deal, not least by the player himself. But we've moved on, it's certainly something I'm confident will never happen again, and in the summer ahead pretty much every player worth their salt unsettled at their club (and a great many that aren't) have their agent touting them to us.

Let's give Houllier his due - the treble season was the most exciting and engrossing year of football I'd experienced for over a decade. But the CL run this year, with a seriously underwhelming and depleted squad at our disposal at times let's not forget, was just incredible. And only now does Benitez have money in the bank and the transfer market at his mercy. Inspired headhunting by Moores and co, and I just hope they're now allowed to sit behind the scenes doing what they do so we can start looking at the pitch instead of the boardroom. For years to come.

[Red Macgregor]

Parry made a right 'Horlicks' of the sale of Owen and presided over the waste of money on some very mediocre players, agreeing to exorbitant fees and salaries eg, Diouf.
Parry should step aside into a more administrative role so that we can recruit a more hard-nosed business man as Chief Executive.

[JBG]

Look, Moores is a nice fella who always backed his managers. Thats one way of looking at it.

Another way would be to see him as an incompetent man who refused to acknowledge that he made mistakes and eventually when it was plain to even him that he was wrong, he more often than not fudged the issue by, for example, appointing joint managers. Not sacking Roy Evans was weak and was detrimental to our club, probably setting us back 5 years.

He also sanctioned the frivilous expenditure of huge sums on players of questionable temperment and ability and by giving carte blanche to his managers he often gave in to their mega lo mania and eccentricies. Both Houllier and Evans blew money on players we didn't even need.

I like Moores as a man as he stood by his men through thick and thin, but while he did this our rivals disappeared over the horizon. Maybe he'll finally get it right with Benitez and if a new golden era begins then I guess all will be forgiven but one startling success should not paper over the cracks of his regime. The League is our bread and butter and under Moores' control we have dropped the ball in spectacular fashion.

[115-1073096938]

Moores cocked up with Souness.

He then appointed Evans, who done well, and shown for two years he deserved a chance. Then it stagnated. He then appointed Houllier who we all thought (unless you were a psychic) was the man who was gonna turn this mess round, he nearly did. So to not give him aslong and give him the backing he deserved would have been criminal.

Also to suggest that a chairman (A RICH PERSON) should tell a football manager (usually someone with ALOT of experience and knowledge) how to do his job is plain bloody daft.

If a manager wins a cup treble and says i need this, this and this to take us onto another level, what does the chairman do? No you need these players, ur sacked?

I don't think so.

JBG wake up, Moores might not a Steve Morgan who'll make decisions on business and get it right 9 out of 10 times. But Moores is the sort of Chairman and MAN who can offer any manager out there something money can't buy.

LOYALTY!!

[taff]

Good debate on this one as it is a 50/50 issue as far as Im concerned.

On the one hand we did fall behind commercially during the 90's and we seemed to have just drifted along when change was required.  The Evans/Houllier debacle did not help and Houllier should have maybe gone a season earlier.  I cant say its impressive either the debate with the new stadium and the rumours about investment etc.

But I read an article in the Independent a few weeks ago that said how the HJC had an office at Anfield and when the new management charged them for phone costs etc a discreet word was had about the ethos of Anfield, and how impressed has everybody been with the synergy between club and community resulting in probably the best football fans in the world. This is down to the old fashioned ethos the club has. 

How much has the CL changed things for us and how important a victory it has become.  Before the CL final I had respect for the board but felt it was time to move on etc, but with Manure Broncos and the debacle that is Chelsea and that poisonous Kenyon, and the aftermath of love and envy from other fans following our victory in the CL I find myself pleased and grateful to have the board we have. 

Its a thin line sport

[115-1073096938]

JBG, i normally agree or can at least see where you are coming from, even if i don't agree with you, you at least make valid points, on this one though i really can't for the life of me see how anyone can question Moores.

If you question the running of this club, you're questioning the main thing that correct and right about this club (apart from the supporters).

Its run properly, the manager manages every situation. Rafa is a General manager at this club, not a first team coach, not a head coach, not a director of football.

He runs EVERY aspect of this club and thats the way it should be.

[115-1073096938]

Good debate on this one as it is a 50/50 issue as far as Im concerned.

On the one hand we did fall behind commercially during the 90's and we seemed to have just drifted along when change was required.  The Evans/Houllier debacle did not help and Houllier should have maybe gone a season earlier.  I cant say its impressive either the debate with the new stadium and the rumours about investment etc.

But I read an article in the Independent a few weeks ago that said how the HJC had an office at Anfield and when the new management charged them for phone costs etc a discreet word was had about the ethos of Anfield, and how impressed has everybody been with the synergy between club and community resulting in probably the best football fans in the world. This is down to the old fashioned ethos the club has. 

How much has the CL changed things for us and how important a victory it has become.  Before the CL final I had respect for the board but felt it was time to move on etc, but with Manure Broncos and the debacle that is Chelsea and that poisonous Kenyon, and the aftermath of love and envy from other fans following our victory in the CL I find myself pleased and grateful to have the board we have. 

Its a thin line sport

So taff, don't you believe Houllier should have been given a chance to turn it around?

He had a bad season, time to get rid? I'm sorry but thats a disgrace. Thats a tottenham/aston villa thing to do. Not an LFC tradition. Houllier had the correct amount of time, no more, no less.

He earned that time with his early success and Moores was 100% correct in the way things were done. Houllier had an awful season, he then had a chance to turn it around, do you suggest sacking a manager mid season? i bloody well don't.

This club under David Moores and Rick Parry does things properly and this is why we have Benitez now. This is why we won the european cup this season.

How you lot can't be eternally gratefull for that, i'll never ever know.

[Cool Hand Luke]

Good debate on this one as it is a 50/50 issue as far as Im concerned.

On the one hand we did fall behind commercially during the 90's and we seemed to have just drifted along when change was required.  The Evans/Houllier debacle did not help and Houllier should have maybe gone a season earlier.  I cant say its impressive either the debate with the new stadium and the rumours about investment etc.

But I read an article in the Independent a few weeks ago that said how the HJC had an office at Anfield and when the new management charged them for phone costs etc a discreet word was had about the ethos of Anfield, and how impressed has everybody been with the synergy between club and community resulting in probably the best football fans in the world. This is down to the old fashioned ethos the club has. 

How much has the CL changed things for us and how important a victory it has become.  Before the CL final I had respect for the board but felt it was time to move on etc, but with Manure Broncos and the debacle that is Chelsea and that poisonous Kenyon, and the aftermath of love and envy from other fans following our victory in the CL I find myself pleased and grateful to have the board we have. 

Its a thin line sport

So taff, don't you believe Houllier should have been given a chance to turn it around?

He had a bad season, time to get rid? I'm sorry but thats a disgrace. Thats a tottenham/aston villa thing to do. Not an LFC tradition. Houllier had the correct amount of time, no more, no less.

He earned that time with his early success and Moores was 100% correct in the way things were done. Houllier had an awful season, he then had a chance to turn it around, do you suggest sacking a manager mid season? i bloody well don't.

This club under David Moores and Rick Parry does things properly and this is why we have Benitez now. This is why we won the european cup this season.

How you lot can't be eternally gratefull for that, i'll never ever know.

I agree on Houllier, he was given the right amount of time.

I think that Rick Parry might be someone we should think about replacing. I don't know if anyone has heard of David Mellor (no relation to Neil), he is journalist and Chelsea fan who has strong links in football. Well last summer when Chelsea were looking to buy Gerrard, Mellor said he had met Parry planet of times and described Parry as a lovely man but an awful businessman.

I think sometimes we are too nice and uncontroversial for our own good, especially when it comes to transfers. Maybe we need a more astute minded businessman running things under Moores. Someone who can play hardball when it comes to transfers and contract negotiations with players.

[JBG]

I'm not questioning Moores as a man. In that regard he cannot be faulted and the loyalty he showed Gerrard Houllier in particular, from a purely human point of view, must be appluaded.

However, I have and will continue to question Moores' business and sporting acumen. I think he allowed his heart rule his head for far too long, and that was to the detriment of the club.

Ideally I'd like to see a situation where Moores will preside over a new golden age as that would be perfect, again Stu, my beef with Moores is not with Moores the man, but with Moores the businessman.

[taff]

Stu Im not interested in a Houllier debate with you and drop the arent you lot grateful etc.  Did you think we would have won the CL this season at the start of the season.

I like the loyalty way of doing things and just for the record I supported giving Houllier his last season in charge but the question I have is should they be more aggresive/ruthless, but the quandry I have is how respected we are as a club because of our ethos and the obvious relationship between club and fan.

Yes they did well with Benitez and CL is an amazing achievment but we cant just blindly follow everything because of this.  What id we win nothing next season and are stilkl behind the top three will they be seen as an asset then.

Now I cant see that happening with Rafa but its a valid point to question how the club is run.

Yes they seem lovely people with the clubs best interests at heart but do we need to be more ruthless as we are swimming with sharks these days