Liverpool FC Forum

by **bigmick** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:31 pm

With the Simao deal seemingly off, and with various other targets proving difficult it is about time that somebody asked the glaringly obvious. While I know most, (probably correctly) will say it's a resounding yes, the question is not as ridiculous as it may originally seem.
If things continue as they are the moment, it won't be long before the "experts" on the telly are not debating it so here goes.
I have long said that this preoccupation on here with "wingers" is an extreme case of barking up the wrong tree. The idea that we are going to get some tricky dicky winger with Mathewsesque swept back hair bamboozling fullbacks before planting a pinpoint cross onto the waiting bonce of Crouchinho is at odds with the way modern football is played. In almost every case, and I include Chelsea here, teams employ wide-midfielders not wingers. The distinction is that a wide-midfielder works for the team, tracking back and putting his foot in when necessary. A wide-midfielder doesn't hug the touchline, John Robertson style. He tracks infield aswell, he attacks the back post when the ball is crossed from the opposite flank, he'll come inside and have a shot or support the central strikers when the situation allows. He'll defend the front post when the opposition have a corner, heading it out before sprinting upfield to support the breakout frrom defence.
This here is the paradox that sooner or later will need to be addressed. We have the best right midfielder in the Premiership by an absolute distance. He is also the best English right midfielder, including Beckham and Wright-Phillips by a mile. He may even be one of, if not the best right midfielders in the sense of which I detail above anywhere in the World right now. This guy that we have does everything. He scores, he passes, he crosses, he tackles and he heads it. Only trouble is, he's a feckin good central midfielder aswell. Tell you one thing, if we do buy someone and he is 70% of the right-midfielder that Steven Gerrard is, then we'll have a really top player.

by **dawson99** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:37 pm

in all honesty with the way stevie g has been playing on the right im more than happy with sissoko and alonso in the middle.
as the old saying goes, if it aint broke, dont fix it.

of course its nice to have cover and if we can get a world class proven right midfielder then id say take him, but no more experimenting with players that have not played in the position enough

by **MilitiaRusher** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:39 pm

I see where you're getting at, but I would still like to see us purchase a quality right winger, if not a good wide right midfielder. He will at least provide back up for our right side, which seems a bit thin at the moment.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:47 pm

I think we need CB more than RM ...

by **Sabre** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:48 pm

IMHO your question is fair and must be done.

IMHO yes, we need a right winger, just because the same reason we need Crouch. There are certain games that a guy like Crouch is handy, and there will be games in which a real right winger will become very handy. Bottomline, it will give us more options and more flexibility to Rafa to beat different oppositions.

If the question was, Is necessary nowadays to have both wings active? the answer is no, Spain is playing with LG on the right , but actually LG moves between lines and doesn't enter the wing and cross as a typical winger. But that doesn't mean there will be games in which entering through the wings is necessary, specially when the other team plays ultra defensively

by **Alonso14** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:01 pm

We are in a kind of similar situation that the scum was in a few years back. Beckham the best crosser of the ball in the country at that time wanted to play central midfield and could arguably influnce the game much better. But Scholes and Keane stood in hi way. As well as Fergie telling him to stick to what he does best.

I do think we should let stevie back in the middle, against the big teams in Europe he could be the difference between gettin the ball and bringing it foward rather then gettin isolated on the wing. Some may agrue that gerrard doesnt stick to the wing but has a free role.

even if we do sign a Right Mid he would probably be cup tied asuming hes comming from a top club.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:27 pm

The attributes you have described Mick, are those of a top modern day "winger". How many teams, or top teams I should say, have wingers who just get to the bi line and cross the ball, none.

The modern day "winger" is 2 footed, can go inside and out, will average a goal every 3 games, can cross, dribble, see a pass, and is aware that he is required to fill in the space when defending, he doest have to be the best defender or great tackler, he just has to be positionaly aware.

These sorts of players are hard to get hold of, and if you can it is usually at a premium price, the other option is to find a player who isn’t quiet there yet but has the potential to do all those things, then work with him over the next couple of years.

I along with St Mike called for Gerrard to be moved to the right side of midfield some time ago, and I thing he is great there, probably the best in the Premiership, but he is also probably the best in the centre were he likes to play, so eventually he will go back there, but he can stay on the right for as long as we cant find the right player with the right attributes at the right price, because we have 3 quality central midfield players who can more than hold the own against anyone else in Europe.

by **Sabre** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:30 pm

The modern day "winger" is 2 footed, can go inside and out, will average a goal every 3 games, can cross, dribble, see a pass, and is aware that he is required to fill in the space when defending, he doest have to be the best defender or great tackler, he just has to be positionaly aware.

This description is of a modern *and* absolutelly world class player. Dominating both feet, one goal every 3 games, and do proper job while defending? world class.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 2:44 pm

The "olden day" winger was traditional one footed, and would always go on the outside and look to deliver the cross, a bit like Cisse when he plays on the right. This is simply too predictable and full backs can suss you out very quickly.

I’m not saying that the modern day winger has to be amazingly 2 footed and has to be the best defender with crunching tackles, but he must be able to do more then knock the ball past the full back and cross, and he must aware about filling in the spaces when defending. The idea is that he must have many dimensions to his game, so that it is difficult for the defender to defend against him, if you just have some one who is quick on the right, when he comes up against a quick full back he will struggle to have an impact. That’s why I mentioned that it is likely we will have to pay a premium price because these quality of players are hard to get hold of.

I’m sure you don’t want some average Joe playing on the wing, if that’s want we then we should just buy Steve Guppy for the left and put Finnan on the right! After all our aim is to challenge for the Premiership and the Champions League on a regular basis

by **Garymac** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:20 pm

I think we need a winger, its the one think we lack, its the one option when you look at are squad that we lack at the moment, we play using wide players which is working well but we definetly need that option of a direct winger....Cool Hand Luke if you can find anyone who fits that criteria as a winger then please point him to Rafa.

Although Gerrard is doing well we cant have him there permently, last time Alonso and Gerrard played center mid together was Wigan and they was stunning, in years to come they will form the most consistant and best central midfield in the world, get a right winger in and it will only make them better, we have seen what the introduction of Alonso has done to Gerrard imagine him with even better players around him.

by **stoney** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:23 pm

I would say Simao is very close if not meets all of Cool hands criteria of a top modern day winger

by **Red H** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 3:26 pm

We need a winger. I can't think of any sucessful team who most influencial player is not central. This is not to say that width is unimportant, but it is in the spine of the team that the most important players are found.

by **Lando_Griffin** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:29 pm

I think that a right winger/wide midfielder is a must for us.
If Gerrard get's injured, we'll be knackered, and I can't see him wanting to spend the rest of his career on the right.

Priorities in Jan. as I see them:

CB
RW
Striker.

Jobs a good 'un.

by **LiverpoolMadman** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:39 pm

Lets loan Messi or Guily from Barca ...

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:51 pm

LiverpoolMadman wrote:Lets loan Messi or Guily from Barca ...

Yeah and we'll give them Gerrard and Alonso in return.

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A theoretical question. - Do we need a right-midfielder?

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