Liverpool FC Forum

[SupitsJonF]

Seriuosly though, we'd have still beaten the germans albeit over a longer term by ourselves.

Dont know about that Judge.

I remember JBG wrote some very good stuff about this a long while ago.

The Americans should be remembered just as much as the Brits, the Anzacs and anyone else who fought.

I think Lando is right about them entering the war when they did, but they did send over ships, and weapons and things like that before then. Then again they also helped fund the IRA

We finished paying for those items in 2006. We'd paid appox. £58,000,000 per year for those arms since 1950. (I believe we deferred 5 payments in that time.)

You see, America weren't as generous as people might think.

agreed lando. we were left in debt to the USA, had to rebuild germany, and send aid to japan. and it was us that won the war.

so what do we have now - USA rich, germany ruling europe through the EU and Japan ahead in the technology race.

it pays not to win

No one won World War 2, just the Nazis lost.  It's the only way to put it really.

[tubby]

The Allies won it.

[Judge]

If America had delayed entering WW2 any longer then Stalin would have sided with Germany. He already had a non aggression pact on the side and was waiting to see if America joined. Stalin could not win the war on his own from the Eastern front so needed Amercia to start a new one hence Europe....It was becasue of WW2 that America went on to become a superpower. Before that Germany had a massive industrial sector but obviously that all got torn to dust.

no bav. hitler being the despot he was, did not trust stalin at all.

if you remember, he did try in vain to invade Russia, but for bad kit and of course the harsh russain winter, he may have won on the eastern front.

please bav, please read the history books. it wasnt until hitler came to power that germany increased its industrial output, mostly militarily. which was against the treaty signed in france at the end of the WW1. he took the sudatenland back, and vowed to make germany great again.

in fact when he over ran france, he made the french sign a surrender in exactly the same place that germany originally surrendered after the WW1

Hitler was uninterested whether the US would join the war. it wasnt until pearl harbor, did all that change (for the US anyway). Hitler believed his army and forces were strong enough to fight on all fronts to dominate europe as one.

what he did say, was that he really didnt want to involve England in that, although he tried and failed to invade. He wanted a non-aggression pact with us, ut we declined



amazing eh?

[maypaxvobiscum]

Hitler was a great great public speaker. pity he has other ideas.

[tubby]

Yeah he saw us as the closest like for like to the German people. Stalin may have hated Hitler but he also wasnt a fool and did have a side pact with Hitler. He was the one who took the initiative in 1938 after the colllapse of Czechoslovakia.He gave a speech then in 1939 at a Congress of the Russian commy party. I am looking for the actual quotes from Max Shachtman but cant find them. Even the foreign affairs guy at the time Molotov confirmed this aftewards and was the main guy in trying to make a deal with the german ambassador to Russia at the time.

[Judge]

molotov the guy who creates cocktails, not the james bond type.

yes germany did have a pact, but there was no trust and it was flimsy. hitler used that to buy time to create an army good enough to tackle the russians and beat the weather also. His plan was to invade russia all along. His ambassadors created enough time for this to be achieved. hitler was a liar, so was stalin. but hitler fooled stalin first.

most of hitlers conquests thru blitzkrieg were succesful, and he thought it wouldve been the same against russia. History tells us, that against advice from certain military generals, he ordered the attack on russia. He reckoned it would take about 6 weeks to reach Moscow and get the surrender of russia.

[GYBS]

No one won anything in the world wars as people died - for me that is no victory . We stopped the Germans from winning .

And as for National Service - you can feck off shoving the little a r seholes into the military - i wouldnt want to work alongside people forced into it .

[maypaxvobiscum]

good point above...cause alot of teamwork is needed from the very basics of area cleaning to other duties. so, its gonna take a very long time for them to have harmony and work together especially if they are not accepted.

[maypaxvobiscum]

omg!!! no no no! this cannot happen! they should not be compulsory NS in Britain. what will happen to all those youngsters in our youth team? the local ones at least. i dont mind if the next batch of manure utd starlets go in but not Liverpool's

[tubby]

No one won anything in the world wars as people died - for me that is no victory . We stopped the Germans from winning .

And as for National Service - you can feck off shoving the little a r seholes into the military - i wouldnt want to work alongside people forced into it .

What if those who were on national service were kept seperate from those actually serving? In any case they shouldn't be sent on operations as that will just turn into another Vietnam. Forced conscription never works as hostory has shown but in terms of discipline and learning to listen surley it's the best way. If the parents and teachers cant control them then who will?

[maypaxvobiscum]

omg!!! no no no! this cannot happen! they should not be compulsory NS in Britain. what will happen to all those youngsters in our youth team? the local ones at least. i dont mind if the next batch of manure utd starlets go in but not Liverpool's

im being serious here. it will affect our reserves and our manager will resort to bringing in more foreign talent and that means less scouse.

[metalhead]

Hitler made a big mistake by going into war against the Americans. You know, I was reading an article, like 4 or 5 years ago about this matter, The U.S entered the war to fight Japan and NOT Nazi Germany. However, Hitler declared war on the U.S after pearl harbor.

[tubby]

Germany could have won. They had better more modern weapons and on d day most of the German paratroopers had more firepower per squad than the Americans or Brits. Plus they had the advantage of being on the defensive but Hitler didnt litsen to Rommel to send reinforcments to where he wanted. Instead he was left to defend the d day invasion with old men and kid conscripts.

[Lando_Griffin]

The simple fact of the matter is this: Had Hitler not decided to invade Russia when he did, and left it a couple of years, the entire Earth would be white, blonde and saying "Zeig Heil, Mein Furher", and our Bible would be Mein Kampf.

Let's end this fairytale that the yanks won it right here, right now. Because it's as far off the mark as a blind archer on a Waltzer.

[Kharhaz]

The simple fact of the matter is this: Had Hitler not decided to invade Russia when he did, and left it a couple of years, the entire Earth would be white, blonde and saying "Zeig Heil, Mein Furher", and our Bible would be Mein Kampf.

Let's end this fairytale that the yanks won it right here, right now. Because it's as far off the mark as a blind archer on a Waltzer.

We could also argue that if the yanks had not supplied the germans with weapons to begin with the war wouldnt have got to the point it did, and lets not forget the yanks refused to enter this war initially because of the arms deal it had with germany as well as other countries. Its easy for ignorant americans to say "if it wasnt for us you would be speaking german" its just as easy to say "If it wasnt for the yanks providing the arms there would be no war". As of today, many of the problems exist because of the arms deals. They provide weapons for Iraq then remove Saddam, The problems in Afghanistan, have a guess !