redtrader74 wrote:Unfortunatly sooner or later you will realise the scale of the current terrorism, it will esclate and propel all the gang related issues you mention into insignificance. That is crime, it is not specific to one group, the threat we are under is specific to the Muslim community. Lockerbie, israeli embassy, Iranian embassy all Muslim related.
Again, you ignore my point on the pakistani community, they make up the majority of muslims in the UK, they have been here the longest, and without googling, they so far have made up the largest number of terror arrests. I am not concentrating on one group, the original post was in relation to integration, and that similar immigration has proved far more sucessful and integrated, and the question was why? and i alluded to it being because their faith/culture prohibits it.
When i spoke of first generation, i specifically said eastern european, and somalian, in reply to you,you took this out of context again. In my post i have already stated that the WI community can be seen as failing when comparing with groups who arrived at the same time, so i don't see the point of telling me about their gang crime. It is off topic, it was about integration, loyalty to the country as a group, and i have seen, heard and read where large parts of the Pakistani community and muslims as a whole sympathise with AQ, and a huge number believe the twin towers, london bombings to be conspiracy theories, is that integrated?
1) I am more than aware of the current terrorist threat and if you choose to use the condescending tone that assumes I am not aware of it then I will not reply as it is petty.
2) I responded to your question about the cultural development of different communities, your argument being that the Pakistani Muslim community has been the route of the "major problems" we now have in the U.K. Just like you think I ignore the threat of terrorism, I suggest you look up the history of ethnic gang violence in the U.K. and see how many people have been killed because of it. I was NOT comparing the threat of modern Islamist terrorism to gang violence, I was apportioning it in the category of a "major problem" - something you appear reticent to accept.
3) The Muslimn community is not the Pakistani community, they are not one category. I have given you more than enough evidence that CLEARLY demonstrates that the threat is NOT specifically from the Pakistani community, but the North African Muslim community, middle-eastern community and so on. Only today an Iranian doctor was arrested in connection to the events of the past 2 days. It is not confined to one group. Pakistan has a role to play as that is where many of these terrorists are trained, but they are not necessarily from the British Pakistani community initially although a fair few are. They are also from Jamaica, Ghana, Algeria, Eritrea, Somalia, Iran, Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Kenya. These are the FACTS, they may congregate in the same community, but their ORIGIN is NOT the British Pakistani community. I disagree when you say they make up the largest numbr of terrorist arrests, there are many many who have come from North Africa where Al qaeda also has a large number of sympathisers.
4) The population of British Muslims is greater than any other religious following bar Christianity, there are also those from MANY other communities who don't integrate - African-Carribeans for example - North Africans for example - all number of nationalities. They may not integrate as much, but to ignore the flaws within other communities and not acknowledge that integration is mutual is a very unbalanced view to take IMO.
5) Your very argument is that the Muslim community won't integrate, I cited a few example where other communities have also not integrated whilst also causing MAJOR problems (the very definition you chose) - a key example being West Indian communities - that is CLEARLY relevant.
6) You cite Al qaeda sympathisers as being a reason for not integrating - they are in the minority, there are also those who VEHEMENTLY condemn these types of attacks, even today in light of recent events large parts of the Muslim community were doing so publicly - yet no-one will acknowledge that since it doesn't suit their argument.
7) We know there is a problem with Islamic Extremism in the U.K. and Al qaeda sympathisers, and it is not confined to Pakistani communities, it is just as prevalent in North African communities, nonetheless it is widely accepted that Muslims need to do more to integrate and have not integrated as much as they could have done. In saying that, you have to understand that many are reticent to integrate through fear, and their religion plays a big part in it aswell - but the less draconian Muslims are more than willing to integrate if the attempts are reciprocated.
THE TERRORISTS!!!
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