Another Reason to leave the EU

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Postby Kenny Kan » Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:28 am

You f'ucking wally.

The EU cannot by any reasonable definition be accurately described as being "totalitarian in nature" because, as I have said, it cannot force its members to remain members if the elected governments of those countries wish to withdraw. The defining feature of totalitarian states is that they recognise no limits to their authority, and having the right to withdraw is the ultimate limit on the authority of the EU. That right is provided for in the Treaty on the European Union, which all member states agree to accept as a condition of membership.

And, for the record, the EU has a Parliament which is elected by the citizens of the member states. The people are also indirectly represented by their governments in the Council of Ministers and the European Council, which, along with the EU Parliament, are the institutions responsible for creating EU law.

This isn't to say that the democratic credentials of the EU aren't in doubt (this is a matter of more complex debate) or that the governments of EU member states necessarily respond adequately to the wishes of their electorates, but it does prove beyond question that the EU is neither "totalitarian in nature" nor "unelected".



Of course it can be described as totalitarian, because it is! Even if, a country withdraws its membership from such an organisation it still has to conform to EU laws and regulations. Take the example of the plan to introduce a tax to effectively force Euro trading houses to move to the Eurozone. How exactly are we meant to lobby against it when we've left the EU? It walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck - "Ergo, it is totalitarian in nature because whether one is part of the EU or not it still imposes it's rules on to nation states. you, sir are living in an ivory tower and need to get your feet on terra firma.

Here is a definition of totalitarian just to help you understand your misconception:

Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)

As I have already stated, the EU seeks to exert political authority and centralized control over all aspects of life, including Britain's and this goes right down to a local council level and has affected many local and regional councils already.

Just because one isn't coerced to join, or forced to stay (even though EU laws and regulations still pervade a nations state after 'seeking' autonomy) they are totalitarian by nature. If the third Reich had it's time again, do you think it would go about using brute force and warfare to make others subordinate to it's regime or do you think it would try a 'more' diplomatic' approach the second time around?

Undemocratic, unelected, bureaucratic, ruling elite and EU go hand in glove just as totalitarian does.

Sorry, but who elected Barroso head of the "European Commission"? It certainly wasn't the people of Europe who voted him in, he was selected and appointed, same with this other nomark Herman Van Rompuy head of "Europeon council".
Champions of England 2020.

YNWA
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Postby Kukilon » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:51 am

Kenny Kan » Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:28 pm wrote:
You f'ucking wally.

The EU cannot by any reasonable definition be accurately described as being "totalitarian in nature" because, as I have said, it cannot force its members to remain members if the elected governments of those countries wish to withdraw. The defining feature of totalitarian states is that they recognise no limits to their authority, and having the right to withdraw is the ultimate limit on the authority of the EU. That right is provided for in the Treaty on the European Union, which all member states agree to accept as a condition of membership.

And, for the record, the EU has a Parliament which is elected by the citizens of the member states. The people are also indirectly represented by their governments in the Council of Ministers and the European Council, which, along with the EU Parliament, are the institutions responsible for creating EU law.

This isn't to say that the democratic credentials of the EU aren't in doubt (this is a matter of more complex debate) or that the governments of EU member states necessarily respond adequately to the wishes of their electorates, but it does prove beyond question that the EU is neither "totalitarian in nature" nor "unelected".



Of course it can be described as totalitarian, because it is! Even if, a country withdraws its membership from such an organisation it still has to conform to EU laws and regulations. Take the example of the plan to introduce a tax to effectively force Euro trading houses to move to the Eurozone. How exactly are we meant to lobby against it when we've left the EU? It walks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck - "Ergo, it is totalitarian in nature because whether one is part of the EU or not it still imposes it's rules on to nation states. you, sir are living in an ivory tower and need to get your feet on terra firma.

Here is a definition of totalitarian just to help you understand your misconception:

Of, relating to, being, or imposing a form of government in which the political authority exercises absolute and centralized control over all aspects of life, the individual is subordinated to the state, and opposing political and cultural expression is suppressed: "A totalitarian regime crushes all autonomous institutions in its drive to seize the human soul" (Arthur M. Schlesinger, Jr.)

As I have already stated, the EU seeks to exert political authority and centralized control over all aspects of life, including Britain's and this goes right down to a local council level and has affected many local and regional councils already.

Just because one isn't coerced to join, or forced to stay (even though EU laws and regulations still pervade a nations state after 'seeking' autonomy) they are totalitarian by nature. If the third Reich had it's time again, do you think it would go about using brute force and warfare to make others subordinate to it's regime or do you think it would try a 'more' diplomatic' approach the second time around?

Undemocratic, unelected, bureaucratic, ruling elite and EU go hand in glove just as totalitarian does.

Sorry, but who elected Barroso head of the "European Commission"? It certainly wasn't the people of Europe who voted him in, he was selected and appointed, same with this other nomark Herman Van Rompuy head of "Europeon council".


You are so correct.

What most people often miss is that it doesn't matter "almost" what political parties you vote for because every politician is run by greed in some way or the other that is why politicians should be made to stay away from as many decisions as possible because it just leads to chaos. A great politician understands that their prime job is to stay away from peoples lives. When the possibility for politicians get the option to create something like for example the EU/EMU they will jump on the chance like a wolf on sheep because it means that their egos are caressed even more it creates lots of jobs for the bureaucrats they know. You should be most worried about the politicans trying to pretend not to care for themselves and having answers to everything.
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Postby Kenny Kan » Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:23 am

You are so correct.


I think so. I think LFC2007 thinks so as well.   :D
Champions of England 2020.

YNWA
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Kenny Kan
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Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:28 am
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