Liverpool FC Forum

[Boxscarf]

The religion of peace, most definitely, another fine example of the peaceful religion in action.

[Reg]

The Muslim faith is terrified of women and remain determined to keep them as second class citizens. MH explain the recent Iranian decree banning them from studying something like 90 courses at university?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-19665615

No official reason has been given for the move, but campaigners, including Nobel Prize winning lawyer Shirin Ebadi, allege it is part of a deliberate policy by the authorities to exclude women from education.

Women have a more realistic social conscience than men which cowboy dictators and religious based mafia run countries can't tolerate. After all, women make up 50% of the electorate and are not to be trusted....

The saddest thing of all is that woemn all over the world see these things going on nd do nothing to help their suffering friends.

Hi reg, how's it going mate? Reg, this isn't about Muslim faith anymore, there is NOT ONE SINGLE verse in the holy book that bans women from education or prevents them from having one, NOT ONE! It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Other Islamic countries do not have such law that would supress women's right to have an education or to be classified as second class citizens. Iran is ruled by religious clerks who have nothing better to do but to exert their political, patriarchal and authoritative influence on their people to satisfy their agenda and control the masses, Reza Aslan dubbed it as ''Khomeinism'' (Wilayat Al Faqih). Even Ahmadenajad has NO POWER in the government, he is just a puppet being sent to talk in conferences and relay messages from the religious clerks who actually run the country and set the laws. I find it funny how some of the media label Ahmadenajad as ''Hitler'' or some kind of cold hard dictator, because he is actually powerless.

"The women's movement has been challenging Iran's male-dominated establishment for several years," says Saeed Moidfar, a retired sociology professor from Tehran.

"Traditional politicians now see educated and powerful women as a threat."

Female university students in Iran have outnumbered men for the past decade

Sums it up for me mate.

Hey MH, all fine thanks matey, always interesting to read your posts.

The problem the muslim world faces is that of smoke and mirrors, conveniently mixing and confusing politics with religion then flicking back again claiming there is no connection. Where an entire culture is a confusion of sexism, religion, historical obsession and fear of other nations, of course everything is anything other than the obvious.

So I agree, banning women from learning is not a religious matter but it is promulgated by the clerics. So it must be political as the 'church' runs the country. Or is it cultural as clearly anyone who insists on women remaining uneducated or covering up must be culturally retarded.

No, the answer and root problem are the clerics regardless of what hat they wear, religious, political or cultural. They're so fkcued up they will eventually drive this world to war as a better alternative to having to move into the modern world and allow freedom of speech and expression. After all any woman who drives a car is clearly the devil in disguise.

'Time for a cold one' as the mullah would say .......   

[metalhead]

All is well here Reg, was planning a small trip to Singapore but can't do because of work commitments 

Mate, you always have to look back at history and find reasons from where these type of extremist archaic religious clerks come out. is it Imperialism? Colonialism of British and French post WW1? Shoving western democracy down Arab's throat? I believe it's so, and it's a major factor for the formation of hardline extremists who oppossed western imperialism. 

Poverty and education is also a major factor in deciding the country's political ideology, if most Middle Eastern countries were developed like Britian, France, USA, Canada, etc... religious clerks would not stand a chance in implementing their political/religious agenda on the people. The people would be more educated to use logic and reasoning to decide what to believe in.

I don't think it's about supressing freedom of expression or liberaty per say, but this radicalism stems from the oppression of western idiology, such as the political idea of democracy, which many muslim scholars think it is against the teachings of Islam (They might have a point). However, I don't think we should reject the notion of democracy at all, some of it is actually in line to with muslim ideas, such as free will and independence, but, for example, American democracy will NEVER work in other countries other than USA, or European democracy, etc... That's where the problem is, when a US president, such as George W Bush Jnr comes out on TV and says that the US would like to enforce democracy among Arabs and create a new Middle East, it's basically enforcing their own ideas that will never in a million years work in Arab countries. I'm not justifying the actions of religious power figures nor I'm rejecting the notions of democracy, but I believe we can create our own democracy by mixing Islamic beliefs and values with liberal reforms (moderation  )

I've recently stumbled upon an interesting Muslim scholar who was the mufti of Egypt in the late 1800's and early 1900's. His name was Muhammad Abduh, and he called for reforms in Islam. This is a snippet of his thoughts on Islam taken from Wiki

''Muhammad Abduh argued that Muslims could not simply rely on the interpretations of texts provided by medieval clerics, they needed to use reason to keep up with changing times. He said that in Islam man was not created to be led by a bridle, man was given intelligence so that he could be guided by knowledge. According to Abduh, a teacher’s role was to direct men towards study. He believed that Islam encouraged men to detach from the world of their ancestors and that Islam reproved the slavish imitation of tradition. He said that the two greatest possessions relating to religion that man was graced with were independence of will and independence of thought and opinion. It was with the help of these tools that he could attain happiness. He believed that the growth of western civilization in Europe was based on these two principles. He thought that Europeans were roused to act after a large number of them were able to exercise their choice and to seek out facts with their minds.[9]

His Muslim opponents refer to him as an infidel; however, his followers called him a sage, a reviver of religion and a reforming leader. He is conventionally graced with the epithets “al-Ustādh al-Imām” and “al-Shaykh al-Muftī”. In his works, he portrays God as educating humanity from its childhood through its youth and then on to adulthood. According to him, Islam is the only religion whose dogmas can be proven by reasoning. Abduh does not advocate returning to the early stages of Islam. He was against polygamy and thought that it was an archaic custom. He believed in a form of Islam that would liberate men from enslavement, provide equal rights for all human beings, abolish the religious scholar’s monopoly on exegesis and abolish racial discrimination and religious compulsion.''


Now if we had more of Muhammad Abduhs running Islamic institutions you would see a more liberal and moderate type of Islamic state.

By the way, now if women were banned from driving all over the world, wouldn't it make the roads safer?

[metalhead]

Here we go again...

Muslim protesters torch Buddhist temples, homes in Bangladesh

COX'S BAZAR, Bangladesh (Reuters) - Hundreds of Muslims in Bangladesh burned at least four Buddhist temples and 15 homes of Buddhists on Sunday after complaining that a Buddhist man had insulted Islam, police and residents said.

Members of the Buddhist minority in the Cox's Bazar area in the southeast of the country said unidentified people were bent on upsetting peaceful relations between Muslims and Buddhists.

Muslims took to the streets in the area late on Saturday to protest against what they said was a photograph posted on Facebook that insulted Islam.

The protesters said the picture had been posted by a Buddhist and they marched to Buddhist villages and set fire to temples and houses.

Police said they had deployed extra security forces and banned gatherings in Buddhist-dominated areas.

"We brought the situation under control before dawn and imposed restrictions on public gatherings," said Salim Mohammad Jahangir, Cox's Bazar district police superintendent.

Many people in predominantly Muslim Bangladesh have been angered in recent days by a film made in California that mocks the Prophet Mohammad.

Muslims in Bangladesh and beyond have also been outraged by violence over the border in Myanmar where members of the majority Buddhist community clashed with minority Muslims this year.

Police had escorted the man accused of posting the insulting photograph and his mother to safety, Jahangir said.

Sohel Sarwar Kajal, the Muslim head of the council in the area where the arson took place, said he was trying to restore communal peace.

"We are doing everything possible to quell tension and restore peace between the communities," he told reporters.

(This story corrects "Bazaar" to "Bazar" in sixth paragraph)

(Reporting by Nurul Islam; Writing by Anis Ahmed; Editing by Robert Birsel)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/ ... 3I20120930

in a 3rd world country that is filled with poverty and high illiterate rate, is it a coincidence Bav? would you hear such a violent scene in developed countries? Hindus and Muslims have been at it for years in India as well killing each other in the name of their beliefs.

[tubby]

Illiterate or not mate there is no excuse for torching temples.

[metalhead]

Illiterate or not mate there is no excuse for torching temples.

and there is no excuse for buring the Koran, or vandalising or destroying a mosque.

it can go both ways , Hindus have done it, so did Muslims, so did Christians in Egypt and so did the Jews in Israel.

only uneducated fools would do it

[Kharhaz]

Peter: "But then Jesus, what religion should our family be?"
Jesus: "Six of one--they're all complete c.rap."
Brian: "Thank you!"

[Kenny Kan]

Metalhead, I do agree with you re Western ideologies and their implications being placed on/in middle eastern countries. FWIW I believe the U.S and Britain alike have no business whatsoever in sticking their noses in where they don't belong. In hindsight, the war on Iraq and the mythical weapons of mass destruction was a lie by the Labour & Blair government to support and excuse the U.S in invading Iraq for natural resources. The fact that Saddam Hussain was a tyrant was an excuse for these governments to exploit. After all, if they have so much good will in helping societies of other countries (which they patently do not) they should have been in places like Congo and even N.Korea years ago.

Again, I should reiterate that the West shouldn't delve into middle-eastern politics because quite simply they have no right to. I'd be content with letting the middle-east get on with their 'way of life' if it meant middle-eastern culture and aggression didn't impose some sort of threat on western societies - like it can.

That said, the U.S's retaliation on Afghanistan is apparently trying to flush out the Taliban due to the twin tower attacks. I'm not sure on this one, as I've since learnt that Afghanistan has a plethora of natural and unique resources too under it's crust. However, their right to retaliate over the twin towers attack is an excuse many would feel is sufficient in itself to exercise while proclaiming to place democracy into the lives of Afghan civilians.

Also, the topic of Israel and Palestine is a contentious one too, eh feck it, the whole thing is one big clusterf.uck and almost everyone involved is equally guilty of something.

Personally MH, I despise the White political 'do-gooders' who seek to appease Muslim faiths and law in Western society more than I do any Muslim. These people who are into substantial equality, political correctness give extremists they ammo they need to pour scorn on Western society.

Note: If it's wrong to burn the Koran it should IMO be equally wrong for Muslims to burn poppies on remembrance day, something that is becoming a bit of a running habit on the 11th of November every year by British Muslims.

[metalhead]

Note: If it's wrong to burn the Koran it should IMO be equally wrong for Muslims to burn poppies on remembrance day, something that is becoming a bit of a running habit on the 11th of November every year by British Muslims.

Definitely, it's sad and pathetic