Liverpool FC Forum

[Kenny Kan]

. I've probably earned myself a life-time ban by speaking my mind,

I doubt we could be that lucky

It's interesting you tag someone an 'attention seeking whore' because of the views they hold about something.

Are you really surprised with Boxscarf's views?

Even if you are surprised which I highly doubt for some strange reason. Why does that make him an attention seeking whore? At least back up your fallacious claim with some sort of logic, rather than just sticking your oar in for no reason whatsoever.

[laza]

I stick my oar whether ever I like Bam

If you don't like it, send me your address and I send you box of tissues.

[Boxscarf]

MH is right you are a f'cking idiot.

I live in a muslim country and there has been no protests, or violence of any kind so don't tar everyone with the same brush. In Libya there has been a groundswell of opion by local people against this sort of violence and forced these militias out of Benghazi. I think in Pakistan it is totally different, these rioters are brought up to a frenzy by two faced people in power who have a secret anti-west agenda. Did you see that gov minister in Pakistan putting a price on the head of the film maker and calling on there brothers in the taliban and al qaeda to support them, thats where there sympathies lie.

It's not just in Pakistan though is it? Sudan is just as bad, Tunisia and Egypt. These idiots are so backward and so thick that they don't realise the damage they're doing to themselves. When you start burning down cinema's like some morons did in Pakistan, you don't harm Britain, Germany or the United States, you harm yourself and the people in your community. All these protests have done is make Islam look bad and when Muslims come out and say "our religion is the religion of peace", all you're going to get in response is a snigger from people who over the last eleven years has known differently.

Also attacking an embassy is wrong, it's an act of aggression, a declaration of warfare. Also why attack British and German embassies? Britain and Germany had nothing to do with the video posted on youtube. If I was British Prime Minister, I'd ban Islam in the country, shut down every single Mosque in the country, I'd have no contact or relationship with any Islamic country and I'd just let Islam get on with the thirst for violence it has.

[Kenny Kan]

I stick my oar whether ever I like Bam

If you don't like it, send me your address and I send you box of tissues.

Your oar is akin to spam as per usual, whinging about 'attention seekers'.

Also noted how you avoided the questions (typical).

Nevermind the tissues, I'll send you a tin opener so you can guff your spam down instead of intoxicating others with your cheap s.hit.

[tubby]

You're a f*cking idiot

Right, that's it, I'm going down to the Lebanon Embassy tomorrow to protest outside it. I might bring some placards with me too.

MH is right you are a f'cking idiot.

I live in a muslim country and there has been no protests, or violence of any kind so don't tar everyone with the same brush. In Libya there has been a groundswell of opion by local people against this sort of violence and forced these militias out of Benghazi. I think in Pakistan it is totally different, these rioters are brought up to a frenzy by two faced people in power who have a secret anti-west agenda. Did you see that gov minister in Pakistan putting a price on the head of the film maker and calling on there brothers in the taliban and al qaeda to support them, thats where there sympathies lie.

I just read that. Pouring oil on the fire those lost...

Libyan militia in Derna 'to disband'

A powerful militia in eastern Libya has announced it will disband, hours after military police and protesters routed militias from the city of Benghazi.

Leaders of the Abu Slim Brigade said the group would dissolve and quit its bases in Derna, east of Benghazi.

Another militia group, Ansar al-Sharia, suspected of a deadly attack on the US consulate in Benghazi, was also reported to be leaving Derna.

On Friday night protesters and police stormed Ansar al-Sharia's headquarters.

In scenes reminiscent of last year's uprising against Col Muammar Gaddafi, they ransacked the group's compound in Benghazi, setting light to buildings and vehicles.

There has been growing hostility towards Libya's Islamist armed groups since the 11 September attack on the US consulate that killed Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three others Americans.

Derna, a port city overlooking the Mediterranean, is regarded as an Islamist stronghold.

Libya's Lana news agency quoted commanders from the Abu Slim Brigade as saying they were dissolving the militia and pulling out of public buildings in Derna.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19690444

-------------------------------------

Nice to see the locals are doing something about this. As ever it's a minority that spoils it for everyone.

[laza]

I stick my oar whether ever I like Bam

If you don't like it, send me your address and I send you box of tissues.

Your oar is akin to spam as per usual, whinging about 'attention seekers'.

Also noted how you avoided the questions (typical).

Nevermind the tissues, I'll send you a tin opener so you can guff your spam down instead of intoxicating others with your cheap s.hit.

I better send a whole carton as your obviously working yourself into another your "I take the Internet and myself too seriously" tantrums. We wouldnt want you getting banned again as you must be running out of user IDs

I defer to your expert knowledge on spam, so cheers for can opener but I still expect a  Christmas card in December, don't worry it won't offend my Pagan beliefs

As for avoiding questions last time I looked the cultural crypto fascists hadn't take over my country or Internet so I'm free to do what I want which includes not wasting my time explaining myself to you

[Kenny Kan]

I stick my oar whether ever I like Bam

If you don't like it, send me your address and I send you box of tissues.

Your oar is akin to spam as per usual, whinging about 'attention seekers'.

Also noted how you avoided the questions (typical).

Nevermind the tissues, I'll send you a tin opener so you can guff your spam down instead of intoxicating others with your cheap s.hit.

I better send a whole carton as your obviously working yourself into another your "I take the Internet and myself too seriously" tantrums. We wouldnt want you getting banned again as you must be running out of user IDs

I defer to your expert knowledge on spam, so cheers for can opener but I still expect a  Christmas card in December, don't worry it won't offend my Pagan beliefs

As for avoiding questions last time I looked the cultural crypto fascists hadn't take over my country or Internet so I'm free to do what I want which includes not wasting my time explaining myself to you

As usual laza you're pointless.

[Boocity]

MH is right you are a f'cking idiot.

I live in a muslim country and there has been no protests, or violence of any kind so don't tar everyone with the same brush. In Libya there has been a groundswell of opion by local people against this sort of violence and forced these militias out of Benghazi. I think in Pakistan it is totally different, these rioters are brought up to a frenzy by two faced people in power who have a secret anti-west agenda. Did you see that gov minister in Pakistan putting a price on the head of the film maker and calling on there brothers in the taliban and al qaeda to support them, thats where there sympathies lie.

It's not just in Pakistan though is it? Sudan is just as bad, Tunisia and Egypt. These idiots are so backward and so thick that they don't realise the damage they're doing to themselves. When you start burning down cinema's like some morons did in Pakistan, you don't harm Britain, Germany or the United States, you harm yourself and the people in your community. All these protests have done is make Islam look bad and when Muslims come out and say "our religion is the religion of peace", all you're going to get in response is a snigger from people who over the last eleven years has known differently.

Also attacking an embassy is wrong, it's an act of aggression, a declaration of warfare. Also why attack British and German embassies? Britain and Germany had nothing to do with the video posted on youtube. If I was British Prime Minister, I'd ban Islam in the country, shut down every single Mosque in the country, I'd have no contact or relationship with any Islamic country and I'd just let Islam get on with the thirst for violence it has.

For you and people who think like you, stop being so biggoted it is a minority that are stoked up to violence by individuals in influential places that are doing this for their own agenda. Don't think it happens only in Islam, is it any different to Blair and Bush using lies about WMD to get the people of the world to buy into their own agenda to take out Saddam Hussain. If you want to see how the majority of people view these protest check out this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWx3Ckh_F4o

[Boxscarf]

You lost your argument when you resulted to calling me a bigot.

Your video is a nice video and I do genuinely believe there are many Muslims who do not resort to violence and are moderate in their views, however not once in that video did anyone really come out and speak out against the protests. In fact the entire video felt like a propaganda tool to convince those of us whom do not believe that Islam is the religion of peace into believing that Islam is the religion of peace when at present it most certainly is not.

I agree with those who opposed to the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, pointless wars and a pointless lose of life for Western troops in those countries. If the Afghans want rid of the Taliban and the Iraqi's wanted rid of Saddam, they should have been left to do it themselves, the same applied to Libyans when fighting Gadaffi. Trying to force Western Liberal Democracy on people stuck in the dark ages is a futile exercise and I would say that nobody has the right to force anything upon anyone, a lesson the Muslims at work should adhere to when they preach to me about how wrong it is to eat pork. Keep your religious opinions to yourself.

Muslims in Britain have offended me too http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... er-11.html - we have to endure people like this, but being the sensible man I am, I do not resort to violent clashes with these people, instead I choose to see them for what they reall are, mentally ill religious fanatics. However if violence was metted out to such people I wouldn't feel an ounce of sympathy for them. These people seem to becoming the more prominent face of modern Islam and that's something you moderate Muslims need to sort out. It's your religion, it's your problem and such a video as the one you posted is nice, but to me it doesn't alter my perception of Islam.

[Boocity]

You lost your argument when you resulted to calling me a bigot.

Your video is a nice video and I do genuinely believe there are many Muslims who do not resort to violence and are moderate in their views, however not once in that video did anyone really come out and speak out against the protests. In fact the entire video felt like a propaganda tool to convince those of us whom do not believe that Islam is the religion of peace into believing that Islam is the religion of peace when at present it most certainly is not.

I agree with those who opposed to the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, pointless wars and a pointless lose of life for Western troops in those countries. If the Afghans want rid of the Taliban and the Iraqi's wanted rid of Saddam, they should have been left to do it themselves, the same applied to Libyans when fighting Gadaffi. Trying to force Western Liberal Democracy on people stuck in the dark ages is a futile exercise and I would say that nobody has the right to force anything upon anyone, a lesson the Muslims at work should adhere to when they preach to me about how wrong it is to eat pork. Keep your religious opinions to yourself.

Muslims in Britain have offended me too http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... er-11.html - we have to endure people like this, but being the sensible man I am, I do not resort to violent clashes with these people, instead I choose to see them for what they reall are, mentally ill religious fanatics. However if violence was metted out to such people I wouldn't feel an ounce of sympathy for them. These people seem to becoming the more prominent face of modern Islam and that's something you moderate Muslims need to sort out. It's your religion, it's your problem and such a video as the one you posted is nice, but to me it doesn't alter my perception of Islam.

I am not a Muslim, I am a Christian (from Liverpool actually) who just happens to live and work out here. I do agree with your perception of fanatics and I have nothing but contempt for them myself, whether they be Muslim, Christian, Jewish or any other religion. The problem I see with your point of view is that you are just looking at news broadcasts that highlight the protests and articles in newspapers that will always report things like that as it sells the paper, its in your face that is why you see it as 'the prominent face of modern Islam', if they start printing things about how nice and peaceful somebody or somewhere is they are soon going to be out of business because nobody wants to read that. If you look at the protests 99% of those people have probably never even seen video and are just sheep being whipped up by people who have their own 'political' agenda (not neccessarily religious) against the west and their own governments. The issue is poverty and education, poverty breeds fanaticism, it did in Germany with the Nazi party and it happens now across Europe with the rise of the far right parties. So ask yourself this, whats the common factor between the protests against this film, the protests in Greece and the Arab spring, which do you agree with and why?

[metalhead]

You lost your argument when you resulted to calling me a bigot.

Your video is a nice video and I do genuinely believe there are many Muslims who do not resort to violence and are moderate in their views, however not once in that video did anyone really come out and speak out against the protests. In fact the entire video felt like a propaganda tool to convince those of us whom do not believe that Islam is the religion of peace into believing that Islam is the religion of peace when at present it most certainly is not.

I agree with those who opposed to the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, pointless wars and a pointless lose of life for Western troops in those countries. If the Afghans want rid of the Taliban and the Iraqi's wanted rid of Saddam, they should have been left to do it themselves, the same applied to Libyans when fighting Gadaffi. Trying to force Western Liberal Democracy on people stuck in the dark ages is a futile exercise and I would say that nobody has the right to force anything upon anyone, a lesson the Muslims at work should adhere to when they preach to me about how wrong it is to eat pork. Keep your religious opinions to yourself.

Muslims in Britain have offended me too http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... er-11.html - we have to endure people like this, but being the sensible man I am, I do not resort to violent clashes with these people, instead I choose to see them for what they reall are, mentally ill religious fanatics. However if violence was metted out to such people I wouldn't feel an ounce of sympathy for them. These people seem to becoming the more prominent face of modern Islam and that's something you moderate Muslims need to sort out. It's your religion, it's your problem and such a video as the one you posted is nice, but to me it doesn't alter my perception of Islam.

I am not a Muslim, I am a Christian (from Liverpool actually) who just happens to live and work out here. I do agree with your perception of fanatics and I have nothing but contempt for them myself, whether they be Muslim, Christian, Jewish or any other religion. The problem I see with your point of view is that you are just looking at news broadcasts that highlight the protests and articles in newspapers that will always report things like that as it sells the paper, its in your face that is why you see it as 'the prominent face of modern Islam', if they start printing things about how nice and peaceful somebody or somewhere is they are soon going to be out of business because nobody wants to read that. If you look at the protests 99% of those people have probably never even seen video and are just sheep being whipped up by people who have their own 'political' agenda (not neccessarily religious) against the west and their own governments. The issue is poverty and education, poverty breeds fanaticism, it did in Germany with the Nazi party and it happens now across Europe with the rise of the far right parties. So ask yourself this, whats the common factor between the protests against this film, the protests in Greece and the Arab spring, which do you agree with and why?

Exactly.

is it a coincidence that most Salafist Jihadists were either tortured in prison or had criminal records in the past? No, there are political reasons why someone will become a radical, who will in turn interpret the Koran his own way to serve his political agenda.

[LFC2007]

There are lots of aspects to this discussion. On the video, I think Salman Rushdie was right when he called it a 'manufactured outrage'. It was nothing more than an obscure piece of cyber-junk until a Saudi-backed Egyptian TV station got hold of it and decided to broadcast it to a much wider audience, prompting the violent response we saw. We can only speculate as to their motives for doing so but I think it's reasonable to assume that it was a deliberate attempt to stoke up anti-western sentiment -- this was not a newsworthy item to anyone except those intent on promoting a political agenda. The reaction was predictable, but if anyone should have been the object of people's anger, it ought to have been whoever decided to give this video the air time and the idiots who responded with violence.

The fact that something so obscure could have such an impact tells us a lot about the power of the media to influence public attitudes and behaviour, as well as about the state of the region more generally. Where else would you see such a widespread and violent response to something so utterly undeserving of attention? We can't pretend that everywhere in the world is the same in this regard. There are particular problems and threats posed by radical Islam that must be addressed. This is not a criticism of the entire Muslim world, many of whom have also been the target of the fanatics and most of whom, like the rest of us, just want to live peaceful, fulfilling lives. But, it is something that exists within the Muslim community-at-large and so can only ultimately be solved by a movement from within that community to change attitudes and to prevent the kind of violent response we saw to this video.

The more moderate voices in the Muslim world have to get the message across to these groups, and to future generations who may be at risk of following suit, that violence is not the answer, that the west is not anti-Islam, and that the actions of certain individuals don't necessarily represent the views of governments and wider groups of people. And, to be fair, I think there is a lot of denouncing of violence and espousing of peace and friendship by moderate Muslims, though it perhaps doesn't receive the attention it ought to. Or, it may be that the message is being made in the strongest terms, but it isn't getting through and resulting in a diminution of radical influences in the community. In which case you have to ask why that is and what it will take to really change behaviour. Economic and political development are surely part of the solution in a region undergoing massive changes at that level, but whatever it is, something more clearly has to be backing that message up for it to have an effect.

[metalhead]

The more moderate voices in the Muslim world have to get the message across to these groups, and to future generations who may be at risk of following suit, that violence is not the answer, that the west is not anti-Islam, and that the actions of certain individuals don't necessarily represent the views of governments and wider groups of people. And, to be fair, I think there is a lot of denouncing of violence and espousing of peace and friendship by moderate Muslims, though it perhaps doesn't receive the attention it ought to. Or, it may be that the message is being made in the strongest terms, but it isn't getting through and resulting in a diminution of radical influences in the community. In which case you have to ask why that is and what it will take to really change behaviour. Economic and political development are surely part of the solution in a region undergoing massive changes at that level, but whatever it is, something more clearly has to be backing that message up for it to have an effect.

It's not! the message is strong enough and it's clear, but it isn't getting enough coverage or western media isn't giving it enough attention, the focus will always be on the radicals. I've said this, there isn't strong radical influence in the community, it's minor, as it proved in Libya where the majority of people are calling for a moderate/Liberal Islamic state. The only way to really change this behaviour and change the perception of the community is shifting the media coverage on moderate views, for example, giving more attention on the peaceful protests, or on countries who aren't even protesting at all! Countries like UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, KSA, etc... there wasn't a single protest on the movie.

“The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only the one who controls himself when he is angry.” - Prophet Muhammad

[Kenny Kan]

The more moderate voices in the Muslim world have to get the message across to these groups, and to future generations who may be at risk of following suit, that violence is not the answer, that the west is not anti-Islam, and that the actions of certain individuals don't necessarily represent the views of governments and wider groups of people. And, to be fair, I think there is a lot of denouncing of violence and espousing of peace and friendship by moderate Muslims, though it perhaps doesn't receive the attention it ought to. Or, it may be that the message is being made in the strongest terms, but it isn't getting through and resulting in a diminution of radical influences in the community. In which case you have to ask why that is and what it will take to really change behaviour. Economic and political development are surely part of the solution in a region undergoing massive changes at that level, but whatever it is, something more clearly has to be backing that message up for it to have an effect.

It's not! the message is strong enough and it's clear, but it isn't getting enough coverage or western media isn't giving it enough attention, the focus will always be on the radicals. I've said this, there isn't strong radical influence in the community, it's minor, as it proved in Libya where the majority of people are calling for a moderate/Liberal Islamic state. The only way to really change this behaviour and change the perception of the community is shifting the media coverage on moderate views, for example, giving more attention on the peaceful protests, or on countries who aren't even protesting at all! Countries like UAE, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, KSA, etc... there wasn't a single protest on the movie.

“The strong man is not the good wrestler; the strong man is only the one who controls himself when he is angry.” - Prophet Muhammad

It seems to appear that some people think such violence and aggression from Muslims re this pathetic video has only occurred in Middle-Eastern countries and tie it to a "region". When in fact protests (in London's case, a peaceful one which I was pleasantly surprised about), happened all over the world. Sydney two weeks ago was pretty bad,  and violent clashes took place where coppers were getting hit, bottles thrown at them and an 8 year old child held up a placard that read something like 'behead all those who disrespect Muhammad'. Western media can be criticised (but not scapegoated for such despicable acts), for perhaps showing much of Islam's negative impact on the world but how should the Australian media cover such an event in Sydney?  A week later, 25 "top" Muslim clerics from all over Australia condemned the actions of the "radicals" and asked for calm etc. This was given ample coverage and air time to prove that they and many other Muslims in Australia don't condone such vicious and violent protests in Australia. A few days later in Melbourne more protests were carried out by Muslims about this video, thankfully this time no arrests were made and it was nowhere near as violent as Sydney's event the week or two before.

[Boocity]

You could say the same thing about many type of protests, the Occupy Wall Street moved to London and other cities, the protests around the EU regarding Austerity, the Iraq war protests etc. many of these protests have ordinary people voicing their concerns but you will always have radicals stirring violence for their own political motivations. However on these protests people are having a go at the religion and thats not right.