Liverpool FC Forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:10 pm

Not sure if i am writing this in the write area of the forum as it is mainly about Englands world cup problems now Rooney is probably out.
I have put it in the LFC section as i think this situation while bad for England could really benefit our star player.
Its fair to say that Stevie G hasn't had his moments in an England shirt and that we have not seen anywhere near the same level of performance from him or impact on games at international level.
Now as we know he has done it on the biggest stage of all (Champions league final) and he was player of the season in one of the best leagues in the world.
The problem with England is obvious, Stevie and fat Frank are both better players going forward, and with the Chelsea man being limited in the defensive areas of the game it has let to Stevie sort of being sacrificied and played in different positions just to accomodate the two of them. We all know that Gerrard is far better in the final third than Lampard, Gerrard has a turn of pace and is equally at home coming from the left or the right with the ball at his feet.
Now with Rooney being out the question is asked who partners Owen ?
The names being touted Crouch Beattie Defoe Joe Cole even Robbie Fowler.
The answer should be obvious imo.
STEVEN GERRARD, he could play in behind Michael with his eyes closed and offers a creative spark with pace and power that none of the others have. Cole might have the skill and an eye for goal but they would be far to lightweight him and Owen.
I would have Stevie just in the hole and leave Cole left and Lampard centre bringing in Carrick doing the anchor.
I really think steven would be a massive threat and is capable of scoring 4-5 goals in that position.
What does everyone think of that ?
I think it would be great for our skipper to have a licence to roam and drift in the world cup, and i couldnt see many defenders living with him if he was given the chance.

by **RAFABENITEZ** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:14 pm

As its England, I dont give a :censored:

.

by **GOAT** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:21 pm

i do. Seems a good idea and would probably work well, theres no point in suggesting it though really is there because svens only going to use his predictable line up and tactics. Plus i wouldnt like having carrick in there, i dont rate him that highly

by **fivecups** » Tue May 02, 2006 5:45 pm

No, I agree with that. Given the lack of quality forwards play 4-4-1-1 or 4-5-1. Accomodates both Stevie and Lampard and Carrick is the most natural holding player England have, along with maybe Scott Parker. Play Crouch or Owen up front on their own - they'll not like it but is seems the most sensible option.

by **Scottbot** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:42 pm

You're right Ace. Gerrard is the key although i'm not sure Sven actually realises this? 21 goals this season and we want you to play anchor-man son. It's crazy. I posted this in the other World Cup thread.

Absolutely gutted about Rooney's injury and thinbgs don't look a great deal better for Owen. I've never been a fan of Erickson's tactics but felt we stood a genuine chance of winning the World Cup IF Rooney was fit and firing and the other players were also doing their bit. Despite having the likes of Gerrard, Cole, Lampard, Terry and Ferdinand i have ZERO confidence in Erickson's ability to get the best out of team minus Rooney and (possibly) Owen.

For me, Steven Gerrard is now England's most important player. He is the only player in the England team (other than Rooney) that the opposition will be worried about stopping. Surely Erickson will have the sense to take off the shackles and give Stevie the freedom to get forward? I find it so frustrating to watch Gerrard in an England shirt. If your going to ask him to play like Makalele in front of the back four then you had just as well cut one of his legs off. It's the biggest waste of a talent i have EVER seen. Lampard is a very good player but he simply isn't in Gerrards' class. If Erickson wants to play them both then he needs to find another way of doing so.

So what are the options now Rooney is out? If Owen is fit (for what it's worth i don't believe he is gonna be in any kind of shape to make an impact at this World cup) then i expect we will line star Crouch up front with Mikey with Gerrard lumbered with the holding role once again. The other option would be to keep Crouch on the bench and play Gerrard just behind Owen (as someone previously posted.) This is a good shout but i also have reservations about playing Owen up front on his own. While his link up play is decent his game is all about clever running and excellent movement. Asking him to hold up the ball and play with his back to goal would detract from everything he does best. My preferred option would be to play Stevie out on the right where he has excelled this season and he could swap flanks with Cole (as he has done this season with Kewell) on occasions to keep the opposition guessing. Problem with this is Erickson will NEVER EVER drop Beckham which would mean asking him to play the holding role. The thing is, I think Beckham could play as a holding midfielder but the reality is when Beckham sits deep he sprays long balls (albeit excellent ones) to both flanks and tends to miss out the rest of the midfield as we saw against Northern Ireland (i think) last summer. My choice for the holding role would be Carrick who looks at home playing international football and has the discipline to sit, hold, tackle and give the ball easy and early. It's worth noting that Lampard had a better game playing with Ledley King holding and likewise Stevie played better recently with Lampard out of the team and Carrick holding. They simply can't play together.

If Owen fails to recover in time for the tournament things will get interesting and Erickson's mettle as a coach will rearly be tested. If Owen isn't fit i would tempted to ditch 4-4-2 all together for 4-3-3. My 4-3-3 without Rooney/Owen would look like this.

Crouch

Cole Lennon/SWP

Lampard Gerrard

Carrick

Cole Terry Ferdinand Neville

Unfortunatley the problem player here would be Beckham. He won't be droped so chances are he would have to play in the middle with Lampard (and ahead of Carrick) with Stevie going out to the right with the license to roam. Is anyone else impressed with Lennon at Tottenham? He looks a cracking player to me and i think he could be a revelation in Internationl football. If you look at the England team there are few players in there who can rearly beat a man. Rooney was one, Cole is another and too some extent Stevie so, with Rooney it's essential to play someone like Lennon or SWP.
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by **Scottbot** » Tue May 02, 2006 6:43 pm

RAFABENITEZ wrote:As its England, I dont give a .

Then why take the time to read or post in the World Cup section of the forum?

by **RichardLFC1** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:28 pm

For the games without rooney i think we should play

Robinson
Neville carragher terry a.cole

Becks lampard Gerrard Downing

J.cole

Owen

by **stmichael** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:41 pm

RichardLFC1 wrote:For the games without rooney i think we should play

Robinson
Neville carragher terry a.cole

Becks lampard Gerrard Downing

J.cole

Owen

I agree with that midfield as i think Joe Cole is the natural replacement in the hole for Rooney. However i just can't see Downing going, despite the fact that he's the best "natural" left sided midfielder in the country. Gerrard, as brilliant and versatile as he is, is far better making those surging runs from a deeper position.

I can't help thinking that Eriksons tactics, which are designed to accomodate both Lampard and Beckham, will succeed only in castrating Gerrard and restricting his ability to influence England in the same way he does Liverpool.

Feel free to disagree, its just an opinion.

by **AwiLas** » Tue May 02, 2006 7:57 pm

Why do we keep comparing Gerrard and Lampard.?. It's obviously Gerrard who runs the show.. And positioning Stevie alongside Frankie is the last thing on my mind.. Stevie should be put on the RW(unless Sven gonna axed Beckham).. If not, Stevie can jolly well be played alongside the strikers.. Correct me if I'm wrong.. Who have been playing in different position for so many times.?. And to finish it, IMO, Stevie is a wonderful, superb, versatile world class player behind Ronaldinho.. Stevie just lacks the natural born skills and footworks.. Cheers..

by **GOAT** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:47 pm

Scottbot wrote:
RAFABENITEZ wrote:As its England, I dont give a .

Then why take the time to read or post in the World Cup section of the forum?

it was moved from liverpool discussion forum

by **Ace Ventura** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:51 pm

RichardLFC1 wrote:For the games without rooney i think we should play

Robinson
Neville carragher terry a.cole

Becks lampard Gerrard Downing

J.cole

Owen

That team looks alright at first, and if we played a weak side then it might be ok.
But against a decent side or a half decent south american side that keep the ball for long periods then it would not be good enough imo.
It is far too attack minded, the injury to Rooney has given Sven an ideal oppurtunity to solve his central midfield dilemma, Gerrard and Lampard hasnt worked against the poor sides, never mind the decent ones.
Downing looks a very good player but due to his injury he hasnt had the chance to bed in to the team and it would be dangerous to play him ahead of Joe Cole.
Cole although great in the final third is imo too weak for a central role and also doesnt have the pace of Stevie, he has been fantastic on the left and probably Englands best player in the last 4 or 5 games so i dont really see the point in adjusting half the team.
It is a given that Beckham will be skipper and play on the right, i would play Carrick in the holding role, he is good enough and gives the ball early and intelligently. Play Lampard ahead of him and give Gerrard the licence to roam directly in behing Owen, exactly how Rooney does, Owen is isolated when he plays with Rooney anyway...due to Waynes natural instinct to drop deep looking for the ball so it wouldnt represent too much of a change.
And to be honest the last 2 frienlies against argentina and uraguay with a similar line up has produced our best football in the last year or so.

by **stmichael** » Tue May 02, 2006 8:55 pm

it's blatantly obvious that with rooney now gone, we have to change our system. however you still have the problem of who to play upfront. you can put carrick in as a holding player with gerrard and lampard bombing on along with two wide men, but who plays upfront. owen can't play upfront on his own in that system.

i don't think the situations as bad as people make out though. france won the world cup without a striker (guivarch played there but was sh#te). they relied on the midfield providing the goods and the likes of zidane, petit etc did.

by **SouthCoastShankly** » Wed May 03, 2006 9:06 am

I don't thin Sven will just look for a replacement to fill the void Rooney leaves. I think you'll see a Bent/Owen or Crouch/Owen parnership, depending on the opposition.

For all those who think Carragher is gunna start I think your being optomistic. Although he deserves a starting place on merit of this seasons performance. Sven seems to favour the Ferdinand/Terry back two, shame but reality.

Lets hope Ferdinand has a shocker in the two warm ups prior to the world cup. Then hopefully Carragher will get his chance.

by **Scottbot** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:38 pm

GOAT wrote:
Scottbot wrote:
RAFABENITEZ wrote:As its England, I dont give a .

Then why take the time to read or post in the World Cup section of the forum?

it was moved from liverpool discussion forum

Oops! Didn't realise. sorry Rafa. Not that your likely to read it!

by **Scottbot** » Wed May 03, 2006 6:53 pm

stmichael wrote:
RichardLFC1 wrote:For the games without rooney i think we should play

Robinson
Neville carragher terry a.cole

Becks lampard Gerrard Downing

J.cole

Owen

I agree with that midfield as i think Joe Cole is the natural replacement in the hole for Rooney. However i just can't see Downing going, despite the fact that he's the best "natural" left sided midfielder in the country. Gerrard, as brilliant and versatile as he is, is far better making those surging runs from a deeper position.

I can't help thinking that Eriksons tactics, which are designed to accomodate both Lampard and Beckham, will succeed only in castrating Gerrard and restricting his ability to influence England in the same way he does Liverpool.

Feel free to disagree, its just an opinion.

playing Gerrard and Lampard together is folly. It hasn't worked to date and i can't see that changing. Both players looked more comfortable in recent games playing with King and then Carrick as partners.

your right Saint when you say we have to play another system now but Erickson's loyalty to certain players and his refusal to play anything other than 4-4-2 will be his undoing again. Becks will play no mattter what, we all know that and Owen will start every game even if he is way short of match fitness (which he will be.)

I would love to see Lennon and Cole playing on the wings in support of a lone striker with Carrick holding and Gerrard/Lampard free to support the attack from deep. I agree that Owen is probably not the ideal man to play as the lone striker but he could probably do the job although I'm not sure he will be fit myself. We (as Liverpool fans) know it takes Mikey several games to regain his match fitness & sharpness but there are so few games fo him to do it. Playing one upfront doesn't really get the best out of Owen but I believe it will get the best out of Gerrard, Lampard, Cole and possibly Beckham who will see more of the ball playing inside.

It doesn't matter though because Sven will never stray far from his 4-4-2 and you can bet he will ask Gerrard to play on as a holding midfielder or perhaps even on the left. He's the best player in the country (only Rooney runs him close) so the England set-up should be all about getting the ball to his feet.

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