Liverpool FC Forum

neil wrote:mork calling orson.... finished 7th last year

Orson to Mork - nano nano.

Steven Gerrard is obviously a sh*t player, then, seeing as we're going off 1 season...

Lando_Griffin wrote:It's a truly shocking decision from beginning to end. The board need to smack themselves stupid for such a ridiculously unadventurous appointment. Roy is a solid manager for a lower-to-middle table team. He is not, has never been and never will be a boss fit for a club like us.

Back the f'uck up Lando , Shanks came to us from out of nowhere , Huddersfield (?).

Now, no way am I claiming that "Roy" is anywhere near that mould, what I am saying to you and everyone else in here is, like it or not, he's our manager now so,
AT LEAST GIVE THE FELLA A CHANCE TO PROVE HIMSELF BEFORE WE Fu*king HANG HIM.

woof woof ! wrote:

Lando_Griffin wrote:I will back him to the hilt as he is the manager of our club.

Yeah ?

He is not, has never been and never will be a boss fit for a club like us.

Remind me not to call you if I need some back up.

Like I said before - I am entitled to an opinion on the appointment.

Get back to me when I start calling him a wrinkly, English, lisping b*stard. (Or words to that effect.)

Until then, I think I am well within my rights to voice my discontent at the signing ONCE.

bigmick wrote:Sheesh I thought it was mine that one Andy. Wrist slashers, now that's defo mine

hhmmm... dunno. you might want to consult the goths and the emos about that. i guess in the football context you're probably on an exclusive though, so i'll give you that one   

Hi,
I have never posted on a football forum before so please forgive me if I centre on topics that have been worn. Football, is the No.1 one sport in the world and with that means every Tom, Dick and Harriet are entitled to scrutinise everything around the game.

Hindsight as we know has 20-20 vision. So rather than just sit on the fence shouting I told you so, I have decided to toss my pennies worth into the ring, for what it’s worth?
Opinion, should be one of life’s basic rights (although not everyone is afford that right) and like ‘The Anus’ – everyone’s got one, so here’s mine.

A WINNING MENTALITY
Prior to the untimely departure of Kenny Dalglish (for which we’ll never know what really went on, unless Kenny decides to write a book) the objective set out for the club was to sign, train and coach the best young British talent available. This was aggressively followed with the signings of both Andy Carroll and Jordan Henderson, both of whom have shown that they have very bright futures as professional footballers, whether that is to be at LFC or not, remains to be seen?

Kenny Dalglish is one of footballs great mentors. An individual that any young player with talent can and will learn what it truly means to become a professional footballer. Testimony to this was back in the late 1980’s when a young Harry Redknapp decided that the only place where his promising young son could learn and ply his trade was under the privileged tutelage of Mr. Kenny Dalglish at LFC.

We know that times have changed and that LFC is no long the football’s centre of excellence. However, the personnel still to this day float around the ground like ghosts in the attic. The reason I pick up on this, is because football as a game has not really changed that much. Yes, the offside rule has been tinkered with; yes the goalkeeper cannot pick the ball up directly from a back pass, unless from a headed back pass (which has speeded up play – not necessarily speeded up the game) and yes the players have access to more accurate dietary, medicines, and science to make them more efficient athletes, but not necessarily better football players, makes me wonder why some of LFC’s gifted and talented stem of past players are not used at the club as a natural educational resource?

A great example of this would be Robbie Fowler; a true modern day great of the Premiership, Sky digital football age – who’s abilities are second to none,  who’s mentality on and off (but not always) was outstanding – why as a club are we not tapping into this resource?

Kenny Dalglish, chose whether right or wrong to train and coach young British talent. One of the hardest aspects of this is to teach a young individual how to win. Kenny did this successfully after one full season at the club.

Our new manager (whom I’ll get to later) will want to bring in his own ideas and players, which is great! However unlike under Houllier (who brought in a crop of French talent) and Benitez (who brought in a crop of Spanish talent) I really struggle to understand where our current manager will source his new signings from? If the current rumours are to be believed then Sigurdsson (on loan at Swansea FC) is all too happy to entertain the idea of following his former manager to Anfield. But let’s face it, having played for a team that clearly played out of its skin the previous season to finish only mid-table (to the football world is deemed to be an excellent result) is this the kind of player personnel LFC should be seeking to firstly gain a top four position next season, but ultimately to quote our current ownership, to become the best team in England?

I’ll explain further; what did Sigurdsson win last season? Answer nothing. What did Jordan Henderson win last season? Answer – A league Cup winning medal – which too many is a laughable outcome to a whole season of football, but he is just a young man as like Jon Jo Shelvey, Jay Spearing and Andy Carroll.
Furthermore, which is probably even more important that learning how to a winner, is that they all learnt how to lose. By this I mean they will all benefit from losing in a major cup final. For once an individual has learnt how to win, more times than not, they will choose not to lose! And if it were for a bit more luck in front of goal in the last 15 minutes of the 2012 FA Cup Final (which is applicable to the whole of the 2011-12 season) may have found themselves as double Cup winners – which still would have not been good enough to keep ‘the family’ together.

Family – A small word, but something Dalglish was desperate to introduce to LFC players and fans alike.

Fourth place in the Premiership now has to be viewed as something to win. Just like winning the play off final from the Championship to the Premiership. Therefore it is fair to state, that gaining fourth place requires a winning mentality, something that Kenny Dalglish had already proved. I believe it is also fair to say the under Kenny Dalglish, a decision (by the manager) had been made to take that all too crucial one step backwards to indeed take those crucial steps forward... One can only ponder.

STATA-MATICS
As mentioned before – everyone associated with football (the fans, players, managers, coaches, trainers, owners, etc...) has an opinion. But is the opinion so accurate when taken from a list of statistics that the modern game offers and thrives on; but to be honest, are they really proven?
OK, so I have opened a can of worms, so again here is an example. Show me the stats from the late 1980’s of left-winger John Barnes and compare them to the states of Stewart Downing?

In today’s game, Stewart Downing is not considered a winger but a left-sided midfielder; a good one too. Liverpool FC has acquired his talents to play predominately on the left side to supply the attacking forwards – true or not? His stats will show that he crossed the ball more times than anyone else throughout the whole Liverpool squad, but with little or no end result.

John Barnes was revered as a Left winger. But John Barnes could also martial the right flank when asked to swap. He could also support the attacking forward or / and play as a sole attacker; and later in his career, played as a central mid-fielder and held his own against younger and more natural midfielders such as Roy Kean.

Where were the stats available to Kenny Dalglish at the time to make such decisions on a player who’s very own cultural background would often come to question his temperament and or his ability to adapt and cope with these pressures. Well Kenny Dalglish could see something that we could not – and that was natural talent.

In my opinion, it is fair to say the Stewart Downing is the product of ‘the Beckham’ era. And we will be subjected to more of this for years to come. Individuals, masquerading as professional footballers simply because they can hit, curl, stroke a dead ball accurately and run around for 90 minutes. Well I know that some of you will argue that football has changed but not to the extreme where teams, managers or coaches can yell ‘Time Out’ to the referee and choose to take a direct free-kick on goal (to score 3 points) rather than play football, score a goal (worth 5 points). I kid you not; should Sky TV and its chosen business partners get their way – THIS IN GENERATIONS TO COME, SOMETHING LIKE WILL BE A REALITY!

I still believe to this day, Stewart Downing was bought to not only play in the current team but to also be in and around the training grounds to fast track a certain young player who came on as substitute against Chelsea in the last home game of the 2011-12 season and with his first touch, shot the ball high into the Kop. A near glorious introduction to what most people now think is one of our brightest young talents. Sound silly doesn’t it? Well check out Stewart Downing’s face as he is substituted for No.31 Raheem Sterling, the eyes don’t lie.

Theory of the modern game – knowing that a talent of 16 years old is at your club but needs to learn and learn quick, is it stupid to pay 20 million on a player to fast track him while playing an integral role themselves week in week out on the football pitch?
In hindsight, Stewart Downing will seem like a bargain, should Mr. Sterling become 40% of the 70 million player Cristiano Ronaldo is today or even 20% of what the great John Barnes was.
Is this so ridiculous?

EDUCATION – PLANNING 3-5 YEARS
Both Houllier and Benitez are qualified teachers. But at the end of the day, with or without a teaching certificate it should be acknowledge that football team management and or coaching has key educational paths at the frontier of all aspects, after all this is life we are discussing.

Houllier, eventually ran his course with a magnificent conclusion of a thrilling history making 3 major Cup winning season and leaving LFC as a fourth place premiership club.

Benitez, was prematurely dismissed by a regime that at the time were required to sell the club and not concern itself with adding new playing staff to the club. This was a sad day...

But one thing is for sure; whether LFC back Brendan Rogers for better or for worse in sickness and in health, it is quite clear even without kicking a ball (in the new season) that as an individual he doesn’t stand up to his predecessors (I do not include Roy Hodgson for obvious reasons).

Rather than sit on the safe fence of hindsight I will go into this a little further. Mr. Rogers in his short spell as LFC’s manager has said all the right things using the right words. Well many individuals can do this for a living specially one that is afforded to the aspiring super rich. Already he quotes of Shankly and Dalglish, who are both proven as history will always show. A manager who already shows a limited scope of finding great talent having stated that going for players at his former club would be a breach of the ‘friendly’ agreement made by himself and its existing owner, but at the same time suggests that any player who desires to leave his former team and want to play for LFC is up to them as individuals.

All this makes my skin crawl. The idea that again players from all walks of life will get a great payday out of LFC simply because the money is sat there waiting for them. Remember that player Mr. Hodgson brought to LFC from Fulham? It wasn’t Clint Dempsey (Fulham’s best player) was it?

But after 33 years of supporting the best football team in the world, there is none out there more than myself to be proven wrong. I would love to have Egg on my face as I wear my LFC home kit with the word CHAMPIONS on it. Instead, I opted to purchase the new home kit with the number 7 on it, with the word WRONGED across it; for it be both our legend no. 7 and our current no. 7 who have been wronged over the course of last season.


PERSONAL EXPERIENCES
I was lucky enough to coach a football team whilst serving ten years as a Secondary School Teacher. In this privilege time I coached a naive group of eleven year olds on how to enjoy playing the great game that football is. To get them to ignore ‘the Beckham’ era and to believe in a spiritual group mentality combined with their natural abilities and a little bit of field co-ordination.

Laugh you may – but I challenge anyone to take eleven human beings, who think and act as individuals and to adapt their believe structures (society) into something positive (by positive I mean to win games).

In my little time as coach I realised I had little or no time for the professional game. For it was I who was given the responsibility of selecting his team to play all contenders, good or bad. My highlight of this time of my life was that as a school, we reached the last 32 of the all England’s Cup competition! Even the Head Teacher understood its significance and granted the team (and myself) the afternoon off school to prepare and travel to play the match.

To win or lose this match did not matter, because the team had proven itself as a winner amongst its peer group. We did indeed win the match and got to the last 16 in the whole of England, WOW!

OK – enough self indulgence,  But I wanted to make the point that no matter what level an individual decides to get involve in coaching a football team, there are pressures that go with it (albeit from screaming Fathers on the touchline in my case).

The team’s performance and results did not come into full fruition until year 10. I began coaching them in year 7! Three years of, blood, sweat, tears and stress resulted in one of life’s moments. Something Kenny Dalglish accomplished in relatively no time at all!

Now we hear LFC’s great vision of the future alongside an instilled 3 year plan. My concern is what happens after 3 years?

Foe me, I decided that a new fresh challenge was to be taken at another school which meant turning my back on not only my team, but also the opportunity to coach a team, for the school I joined already had its staff in place for such extra-curricular activities. It was also a sad day...

Ultimately my point is:
Everyone has an opinion of Football from their SKY TV remotes, but very few choose to stand in the cold and rain coaching it?

THE MANAGER (B.R. – THE APPRENTICE)
Before my conclusion I should like to share my dismay at the lack of visionary at LFC at the moment. Brendon Rogers would have made an excellent no.2 at LFC – to be taught ‘the Liverpool way’ by one of the few individuals who understands what that is, Kenny Dalglish. Rogers could have been the man that LFC proclaimed to the worlds media as the man who WILL replace Kenny Dalglish when the time was ready (which in my opinion is not now). An individual who could have learnt about the structure of the club, to learn to walk before running, but instead is now in charge of coaching a team that has one of the best facilities in world football (having spent last season coaching his team at the local sports hall).

Yes I know that he needs the chance and to step up to a big job. But this is something that is done gradually. In fact if a Brendan Rogers would not be interested in such of an apprentice role at LFC, by knowing his place (having only coached one season amongst England’s elite), surely does not match up to the criteria we all know that optimises what LFC is all about and the men that have previously managed our club.

Here is a thought.
Has Brendan Rogers, visited our academy yet?
Has Brendon Rogers single handed, selected 2-3 academy players and brought them to Melwood – picking them up in his car to personally take them to training?
Each Coach or Manager will have ‘their way’ but even Benitez realised that the sooner he spoke among the fans in their own back yards (the pub) that even he would not get to understand what LFC is all about.
Kenny Dalglish will have been asked to stay away from the club he loves in order to give Brendan Rogers a chance. For it is this kind of pressure that I feel he cannot cope with. It was benitez who brought Kenny Dalglish back to Anfield – not because he felt threatened, but because it was the right thing to do for the club.
Who will Brendan bring back to Anfield – too teach ‘The Liverpool Way’?
LFC now speaks of Barcelona’s tiki taka football approach, which is great for them and it works and is ‘The FC Barcelona Way’ and after 4 European Cup wins, who would begrudge them that?

WE ARE LIVERPOOL! Something that was said by Mr. Benitez at half time during the 2005 Champions League Final. WE ARE LIVERPOOL – why not try saying that yourself?

All together – WE ARE LIVERPOOL! – these are BIG words, words that can, will and did inspire a team to win its 5th European Cup – THEY DID IT FOR LIVERPOOL – AS LIVERPOOL – THE LIVERPOOL WAY – even Jersey Dudek embraced it in the heat of the moment by adopting Bruce Grobbelaar’s infamous ‘Jelly Legs’.

THE LIVERPOOL WAY...
So what’s going to said or done in future moments of heated battle? Tiki Taka lads, Tiki Taka? Or should it be – let’s pass and move and dictate the run of play at our tempo?

Surely anyone with an ounce of football understanding would know that Barcelona’s adopted style of play stems from what great clubs like Liverpool have shown in the past, alongside the great Brazilian teams as well? Surely we must accept that Barcelona boasts in its ranks the best Tiki Taka individual the game has to offer? So why wouldn’t they play this way..?

Louis Suarez, arguably one of the finest football talents in the world today may or may not be a Liverpool player for long? But one thing is for certain, under this current philosophy he will walk (but not alone) away knowing of the way of FC Barcelona not THE LIVERPOOL WAY.
Scandalous!


GLORY DAYS (CONCLUSION)
In short – in 3 years time I believe LFC will be looking for a new football manager as this current decision to bring in a new manager is one that satisfies the need to get a new stadium built.
First it was Hodgson – in order to sell the club – the right man at the right time, regardless of results on the pitch. Time will tell if LFC truly got a great result when the club was sold. FSG got rid of our debt and for that I do believe we got a GREAT RESULT!
Secondly, now it is to appoint a manager whose face fits and can be moulded to suit the media and drum up good commercial options for LFC’s quest to build a new stadium (or re-develop Anfield?).

The real scale of judgment (FSG’s Ownership) from this appointment unfortunately will not come from the direct results of football matches, but the result of LFC erecting new football stadia. This alone will determine if FSG made the right decision? I really believe that Rogers is just a pawn within a bigger picture for LFC which for the owners begins with building the stadium. This is their quest, their holy grail of which all fans will really, truly see progress and ultimately back them for the foreseeable future. or again in my opinion see FSG sell the club at a profit when the timing is right – After all, John Henry is no spring Chicken.

So what’s in store for LFC?
Man Utd already chant “attack, attack, attack” from its stands and who were once known as ‘The Red Devils’ now brand itself worldwide as ‘The Reds’. Alex Ferguson once mentioned the enormous difference of having an anthem like ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ can do for a football club and its fans. In fact he has gone on record (excuse the pun – but was intended) for wanting Man Utd to adopt   the song ‘The Impossible Dream’ which is a great song, but not an anthem.
If as a club, we do not teach ‘The Liverpool Way’ (this has come into question of what this is in recent threads) to the younger generation. If we continue to unlearn what was taught to us by Bill, Bob, Joe, Kenny, Houllier, Benitez, this great club will stand for nothing and fall for anything.

If as a club we do not hold onto the principles that this club has built football principles on, then I dare say that it won’t just be ‘Attack, attack, attack’ we here from the Stretford end, but Man Utd aka ‘The Reds’ will in fact adopt ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone” as its anthem. May be not today – but in the grand scale of things, 50-100 years is only around the corner.

Our newly adopted anthem will become ‘GLORY DAYS’ by Bruce Springsteen – for this is all what we’ll have left?

I Sh*t YOU NOT –
Anyways, I really feel better for having got all of this off my chest. May be now I can sleep again, instead of all the restless nights I have been having over the last 4 weeks.

Thank you for reading.
Jason

haven't I seen this somewhere else, are you a serial poster with the same post

When I saw this thread pop up I got scared, thought Hodgy might be back as DOF or something 

Oh the memories of bigmick, lando , Emerald .