Liverpool FC Forum

[bunglemark2]

Of course he has a bee in his bonnet - he hates the English.[/quote]

You can't fault him for that

[Kenny Kan]

) true

[Boocity]

Jealousy

[SouthCoastShankly]

It will mean nothing because FFP will not stop the big clubs from spending over what they earn because they punishments will be minimal .

Sorry Benny but speculation has no basis.

In reality clubs are adhering to the fair play rules and the system is working as planned.

Evidence
* Last week, UEFA announced that it was to withhold prize money for clubs who had qualified for UEFA competition but who had ‘overdue payables’ due. Atlético Madrid, Málaga, Sporting, Rubin Kazan, Partizan and Fenerbahçe all have been sanctioned for failing to meet the new financial criteria.

* The Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in the last few months has more or less upheld sanctions imposed by UEFA on Besiktas (a two year suspended exclusion and a fine), Bursaspor (a one year suspended exclusion and a fine) and Gyori (exclusion for two seasons with the third season suspended and a fine) for breaching the FFP overdue payables rules.

You can argue that these clubs aren't the big powerful ones but that argument falls flat on it's face when you see that the elite clubs are already preparing for the onset of these rules. In the last accounting period Real Madrid, Arsenal, Manchester United and Bayern all posted profits. Barcelona made a small acceptable loss. Whilst these clubs are adhering to the rules they will back the fair play rules if only to stop the newcomers spoiling the party through heavy investment.

The focus will be on clubs like Zenit, PSG and Manchester City that have recently spent considerable sums in order to break into the elite group. But the reality here is they are the new kids on the block and neither hold any real sway with UEFA or FIFA and cannot even begin to compete as a fanbase level with the established elite.

The reason the fair play rules will work is that the new "big spenders" like clubs like Zenit, PSG and Manchester City need exposure and matches against the current elite to generate a significant fan base (winning matches/cups, sponsorship, TV revenue, etc), fans do not follow clubs to watch them spend, they follow to watch them win. If they fail to fully meet the regulations by 2017, they will not be granted a UEFA licence and as such will not be able to compete against Europes elite.

[Benny The Noon]

What about big spenders like Chelsea , Or big clubs in massive debt like Man Utd or Madrid or Barce ?

It's all well and good them posting profits but they are millions in debt ? That is very clear in the rules that clubs are not allowed to have big debts and not allowed to be bailed out by governments or rich owners.

It's not going to work and it won't change a thing. The same big clubs will spend the same and will pay fines or work there way around things. TV contracts will be due for renewal soon and UEFA need every big team playing to get them the best deal. 20 years ago the G12 threatened to create a Super Leagues beyond the authority of UEFA and they forced them to create the CL and to give the clubs a bigger share of the telly money. The minute the top clubs start to be threatened that's when the big clubs will act - they will once again threaten the Super League and UEFA will once again be forced to bow to the clubs demands. UEFA is nothing without the clubs.

[Kenny Kan]

you're right benny if the big clubs felt like it, its just a matter of 'a two fingered salute'.

[SouthCoastShankly]

Benny you clearly misunderstand the Fair Play rules then.

Man Utd's debt is leveraged debt incurred when the Glazer's acquired the club - borrowed money. It is not included in the fair play rules.

The Fair Play rules cover the expenditure of the club, only the annual interest and repayments of the leveraged debt would be included in the break-even calculations. Man Utd's revenue exceeded their debt commitments and expenditure and as such posted a profit. They passed the fair play rule test.

[Benny The Noon]

PSG are currently getting a new sponsership worth - £100mil a year - sponsered by - their owners company.

That's how people will get round it.

FFP will not stop the big clubs getting bigger. As soon as UEFA threaten a top club then it will kick off. Remember it clearly 20 odd years ago. Even our owners have come out and doubted the credibility of it. Money talks in football and UEFA do not hold the power.

[SouthCoastShankly]

PSG are currently getting a new sponsership worth - £100mil a year - sponsered by - their owners company.

That's how people will get round it.

FFP will not stop the big clubs getting bigger. As soon as UEFA threaten a top club then it will kick off. Remember it clearly 20 odd years ago. Even our owners have come out and doubted the credibility of it. Money talks in football and UEFA do not hold the power.

Well I disagree.

20 years ago the game was not about money. Today the risk of insolvency and beackrupcy due to uncontrolled spending is a growing threat. Currently all clubs have signed up to the financial fair play rules, as all new UEFA rules have to be approved by member clubs. In today's age football clubs are businesses and businesses need regulation, because greed blinds reason.

I am convinced the fair play rules will work and will work even better if leagues imposed salary caps (which is currently being considered by the premier league as we speak). The fair play rules are reasonable, both in terms of timescales to achieve a break-even account and the tiers of punishment.

* Clubs have till 2017 to truly break even.
* Investment in infrastructure, youth, etc is not included, the aim is to regulate transfers and salaries to prevent risky overspending in the transfer market.

Interestingly I learnt today that the tiers of punishment for non-compliance are very fair, those who really flaunt the rules would have to flagrant abuse the system to be thrown out of competitions.

1 Reprimand / Warning
2 Fine
3 Deduction of Points
4 Withholding of Revenue from UEFA competition
5 Prohibition to register new players for UEFA competitions;
6 A restriction on the number of players that a club may register for UEFA competitions
7 Disqualification from a competition in progress
8 Exclusion from future competitions

Worth noting that for all the concerns towards Man City, it is important to recognise that the owner doesn't load debt onto the club unlike others. They service no loan interest or repayments, however their spending does take them into the red annually

[Benny The Noon]

20 years ago the reason why the clibs wanted to form the European Super League was because of money - they wanted better control and a bigger share.

Teaams will carry on spending regardless and and when the telly deals and the UEFA contract with clubs is up for renewal in a couple of years they will ensure its in their favour not UEFA. Everyone knows its a hollow paper exercise that will not change anything.

[SouthCoastShankly]

20 years ago the reason why the clibs wanted to form the European Super League was because of money - they wanted better control and a bigger share.

Teaams will carry on spending regardless and and when the telly deals and the UEFA contract with clubs is up for renewal in a couple of years they will ensure its in their favour not UEFA. Everyone knows its a hollow paper exercise that will not change anything.

Not everyone. Some.

I sit on the optimistic side, convinced by the business model - no emotion. Sure the scheme has challenges but on the face the evidence suggests it is working.

[heimdall]

20 years ago the reason why the clibs wanted to form the European Super League was because of money - they wanted better control and a bigger share.

Teaams will carry on spending regardless and and when the telly deals and the UEFA contract with clubs is up for renewal in a couple of years they will ensure its in their favour not UEFA. Everyone knows its a hollow paper exercise that will not change anything.

You are fogetting that the established elite will do whatever needs to be done to keep these nuveau riche clubs under control as they pose a threat to them, hence why the FFP got introduced in the first place, or did you think it was Platini's idea ;-)

[Boocity]

What about big spenders like Chelsea , Or big clubs in massive debt like Man Utd or Madrid or Barce ?

It's all well and good them posting profits but they are millions in debt ? That is very clear in the rules that clubs are not allowed to have big debts and not allowed to be bailed out by governments or rich owners.

It's not going to work and it won't change a thing. The same big clubs will spend the same and will pay fines or work there way around things. TV contracts will be due for renewal soon and UEFA need every big team playing to get them the best deal. 20 years ago the G12 threatened to create a Super Leagues beyond the authority of UEFA and they forced them to create the CL and to give the clubs a bigger share of the telly money. The minute the top clubs start to be threatened that's when the big clubs will act - they will once again threaten the Super League and UEFA will once again be forced to bow to the clubs demands. UEFA is nothing without the clubs.

I think it effects clubs more like Chelsea, Man City nad PSG than ManU, Barca etc. The first three just do not have the world-wide fan base and appeal to generate enough profits to offset the amount of money being pumped in by the owners. Do you honestly think ManU, Barca or RM would all of a sudden want a break away league just because Man City or Chelsea fall foul of the new rules.

[Penguins]

Im am with Benny on this one.
The top 10 club in Europe will get their way and Uefa can not afford to loose them.
I haven't read anything in the past year about Uefa really threatening City or Chelski about getting dropped out of the CL.
Just wishful thinking from those outside looking in...

[supersub]

There is no way in the world the big spenders will be sanctioned