Top clubs consider overseas games

The Premiership - General Discussion

Postby LFC2007 » Sat Feb 09, 2008 7:33 pm

JoeTerp wrote:its just one freaking game people.  Imagine if Cardiff were to win the promotion playoffs? then there would be 19 games played outside of England.  And I know this seems like a long shot, but there has been talk of the Old Firm trying to join the Premier League, there's 38 more games played outside England.  This would just be taken it a little bit (well i guess more like a lotta bit) further away from England

Cardiff and a few others have been part of the English football League system for years, they're just across the border. They've already played in the top division and their footballing culture is very similar to English clubs.

Taking a game to Japan, Melbourne, Hong Kong or wherever else is very different to Cardiff City playing in the Premiership.

The Premier League is what it is because of its culture, you can't export that, and the sooner that's understood, the sooner this silly idea can be put to bed.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:26 pm

The Manhattan Project wrote:
"In England, you already have no English coach, no English players and maybe now you will have no clubs playing in England. It's a joke."


He's talking bollox, as usual.

An English coach means nothing. Guus Hiddink is the manager of Russia and is Dutch. I don't see Platini complaining about that.

"No English players" is also foolish. Gerrard, Carragher, Ferdinand, Rooney, Terry, Lampard etc...all are English and play in England. At the last Champions League, three out of the four semi finalists were English.

"No Clubs Playing in England" is also nonsense. The Premier League have made it very clear that only ONE game out of 39 will be played abroad. 

3 "English" clubs in the semi-finals of the CL. 2 clubs owned by yanks and one by a Russian. None of the 3 clubs had an English manager and there were more foreign players played in those semi-finals than English. 

The only thing English about the CL SEMI'S WAS THE FANS and 3 of the games were played in England.

But its not about foreigners or English , its the fact that you are going to have a lottery and not a League.

You can transport snow in a box to another country, but all you finish up with is a soggy box of water. The ingredients are the same but the end product is very different.
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:20 pm

3 "English" clubs in the semi-finals of the CL. 2 clubs owned by yanks and one by a Russian. None of the 3 clubs had an English manager and there were more foreign players played in those semi-finals than English.


That's beside the point. There's nothing legally to prevent clubs from having foreign owners, foreign managers, and foreign players. They are still considered English teams. Barcelona have a Dutch manager and their best player is from Argentina. You would support sacking Rafa and selling all our foreign players? If not, then I don't see the problem.  

The only thing English about the CL SEMI'S WAS THE FANS and 3 of the games were played in England.


The fans were English? All of them? I doubt that. Three of the games were played in England. Fine. 38 in the Prem per team will be played in England.
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Postby dawson99 » Sat Feb 09, 2008 9:41 pm

what they should have is a winter break and mini tournaments abroad. games in the league cant be decided by a draw. otherwise its unfair if say sunderland play manure and bolton play neverton.
teams play each other home and away, thats it
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:12 pm

what they should have is a winter break and mini tournaments abroad


That sounds reasonable. A better idea than the one currently proposed.

I would suggest that the coolest and most popular Premiership teams play each other in foreign nations during this break AND also play domestic teams from those nations.

So for example, Liverpool would play Man Utd in Los Angeles, and then both teams would play against the LA Galaxy over the course of a few days.

So:

Friday: LA Galaxy vs Liverpool

Sunday: LA Galaxy vs Man Utd

Tuesday: Liverpool vs Man Utd

All matches played in LA.

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Postby dawson99 » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:16 pm

yeah, then revenue goes up, its a sort of break as its not for points and all are happy. would have to let the smaller teams mix up with the bigger ones tho or else there would be no revenue for them.


thats what id propose, make me fa chief lads
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:38 pm

That's beside the point. There's nothing legally to prevent clubs from having foreign owners, foreign managers, and foreign players. 


Thats beside the point :laugh:  you brought it up mate! I can't see were Platini or I said it was illegal CAN YOU ?
?
You would support sacking Rafa and selling all our foreign players?


Making things up again, where did I say anything of the sort?

Barcelona have a Dutch manager and their best player is from Argentina


And this has any relevance because? 

I don't see the problem


You don't see the problem but most supporters do. Without wishing to get into an ooter debate, have you ever been to a premiership game?

The fans were English? All of them?


Where did I say all of them, I said "The only thing English about the CL SEMI'S WAS THE FANS and 3 of the games were played in England" only a pedant or an idiot would take that to mean ALL OF THEM.

I have no problem with tournaments abroad, just with ruining the premier league by holding a lottery and playing a 3rd game against a team that everyone else only plays twice.
Fine. 38 in the Prem per team will be played in England.



I am quite happy with the 38 games played in England, its the 1 game that would be played abroad that I and most English supporters are unhappy with.
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Postby JoeTerp » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:51 pm

mini tournament abroad sounds reasonable, but I think the entire point of having the abroad game be part of the league standings was so that teams would field their best teams.  That already doesn't happen in the Carling Cup, so imagine what kind of squad would be sent out for the international cup?  Also, a mini-international tournament would likely only satisfy one region and the point of this idea is to spread the 20 teams over 5 cities across the globe.

I think the real solution could come by FIIFA stepping in and fixing the international schedule and the "club world cup"  What should should happen is that every region should have its championship 2 years after the world cup, preferably in the summer, players can only play in one of them anyway, and people generally do not care about other region's championships, but I am sure there is a way that they could be reasonably spaced out over the summer to have less overlap, especially if Africa continued to play in the Winter. 

then in the odd numbered years, during the summer there should be the Club World Cup (played every 2 years) and it should be a 32 team tournament, played in 5 regions, 4 different regions consisting of 8 (2 groups of 4) teams and then the "host" city where the two semi final and finals would be played.  This would allow clubs from all over the world to play other clubs from all over the world in front of fans that do not normally get to see great football, but have a passion for the game nonetheless.  Bayern Munich vs. River Plate in Dubai  or the Urawa Red Diamonds (2007 asian champions league winners and one of Japans best supported clubs) vs Man U in  Hong Kong
or Liverpool vs. Corinthians in New York
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Postby LFC2007 » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:53 pm

JoeTerp wrote:Liverpool vs. Corinthians in New York

Convenient  :D
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Postby JoeTerp » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:54 pm

4 hour drive could be 5 depending on traffic  :D
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:55 pm

I don't really care what sort of tournament they come up with as long as they leave the prem alone.
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Postby LFC2007 » Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:59 pm

I agree, although I don't see how they'd manage to schedule in a club tournament.

Every two years you've either the World Cup or the Euro's.

Players need a break.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sat Feb 09, 2008 11:31 pm

A grasping stunt that sells out the game’s heritage

The history of football is littered with landmarks. There was the abolition of hacking (1863), the introduction of the penalty (1891), and the change in the offside law (1925). Then there was that fateful February day in 2008 when Richard Scudamore opened his mouth and gave the game away.

For generations, football administrators have held their public in utter contempt, patting their heads while picking their pockets.

But even as they patronised and exploited them, they were always careful to pretend that their concerns carried weight, that their opinions actually mattered. Scudamore has scuppered that convention in the space of a single speech.

With a few minor modifications, the League system has endured for more than a century.

Even the birth of the Premier League in 1992 — that mercenary convulsion by which the rich grew unacceptably richer — did not distort the symmetrical structure of matches played evenly at home and away, with the eventual winners emerging from a level playing field. Then along came Scudamore.

We do not know if the Premier League chief executive was obeying the orders of his masters, or simply anticipating their wishes, when he announced the innovation of 10 extra games in five far-flung cities, with fixtures to be chosen by drawing of lots and destinations by depth of pocket.

But we do know that a respected institution has been egregiously demeaned and that a valued competition has been reduced to the status of a marketing campaign. 

In truth, his pitch seems to have been conceived at a Friday afternoon sales conference, with all concerned anxious to get away to their cottages in the Cotswolds.

"This is an idea whose time has come. . . standing still is not an option . . . if we don't do it someone else will."

The cliches came tumbling; each one more obtuse, more bogus than the last. And each begging a host of questions. Why isn't standing still an option? Who else might leap into the breach? How much are they paying him to talk such transparent garbage?

If I dwell upon Scudamore, then it is because he knows the history.

He is not an emigre Texan, enjoying a sabbatical from Major League baseball, nor an emigre oligarch, buying a profile with his post-Soviet proceeds.

And certainly he has done nothing to attract the attention of human rights campaigners.

But he is in hock to all of those. He must serve, for instance, that charismatic leader of men at Bolton, as well as whichever comedian is currently controlling Newcastle.

There is also the Tottenham chairman Daniel Levy, who calls the game 'soccer' and believes that crossing continents for an extra match might help young players to make their mark.

Levy asks us to remember that "We have lots of overseas fans that are unable to come to matches played in the UK, so I think it is something that should be explored."


Truly, I would have expected more from one who made such a stylish fist of sacking his last manager.

And, of course, David Gold, of Birmingham, another keen supporter of the scheme.

He didn't really care where his club might be asked to play their extra match, provided it was "Nice and warm, in the sunshine. Preferably very close to a beach."

He also declared: "We are making history" when he really meant "making money". In fairness, I didn't expect more from Mr Gold.

But it is Scudamore's attempt to spin the rampaging greed of his patrons which is the real disappointment.

His was a huckster's performance.

On travelling to foreign matches, he said: "We have to make sure fans want to go there and they are affordable."

But naturally. We must remind him of that promise when Everton are drawn in, say, Melbourne, or Wigan in Bangkok.

He also came up with the line: "I would entirely refute the idea that this is a commercially driven exercise."

As if it were anything else. But the remark which cut to the heart of the matter was his assertion that: "It is not a threat to the integrity of the competition."

Of course it is. That's the whole point.

That's why so many who love the game are outraged at this crude, brazen, hardfaced attempt to wring still more money from the most prosperous league in the world.

At the moment it is decided on a just and traditional basis. But if the new measures are adopted, we shall have issues of success and relegation partly decided on an artificial basis, in a myriad of foreign cities, and by the luck of the draw.

If that is not a threat to integrity, then the term has no meaning.

Now, I do not wish to exaggerate the significance of all this. We are not choosing a President or fighting a famine, instead we are discussing something which is essentially trivial.

But it has its place in the national pattern because week by week, year by year, it attracts so much interest, so much innocent emotion.

And a basic reason for this interest and emotion is that it represents a kind of comforting stability. It is not a matter of sentimentality, it is entirely pragmatic.

  Whatever else may be disintegrating, we still have this competition, attentively followed by millions and accepted by all as a fair and logical way of calibrating the virtues of the nation's finest football clubs. And we are about to tarnish that jewel by pursuing a cheap and grasping stunt, devised to sell replica shirts.

I know one man who would have been appalled by this aberration.

Last summer, the Premier League promoted a pre-season tournament in Hong Kong. The competing clubs included Liverpool, Fulham and Portsmouth.

It was, according to my colleague Joe Bernstein, an agreeable occasion.

One day, in the middle of the tournament, Bernstein saw a familiar figure returning from a round of golf. They chatted in the afternoon heat.

Bernstein asked him if he could imagine an authentic Premier League match ever being played abroad. The golfer dismissed the notion.

"Not while I'm in charge of the Premier League," said Richard Scudamore. But that was when sanity prevailed. Before he listened to his masters' voices. And long before he gave the game away.
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Postby The Manhattan Project » Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:25 am

Thats beside the point   you brought it up mate! I can't see were Platini or I said it was illegal CAN YOU


Making things up again, where did I say anything of the sort?


I wanted to know what relevance your statements had.

You mentioned foreign ownership, players and managment.

Why? What's that got to do with anything?

It does not change the fact that those three teams are English.


And this has any relevance because?


Because the fact Barca have a Dutch manager and their best player is Argentinian doesn't change the fact they are considered a Spanish/Catalan team 

You don't see the problem but most supporters do. Without wishing to get into an ooter debate, have you ever been to a premiership game?


No I haven't.

But explain to me what relevance this has in this discussion.

If one game is played abroad, you still have 38 at your disposal.


Where did I say all of them, I said "The only thing English about the CL SEMI'S WAS THE FANS and 3 of the games were played in England" only a pedant or an idiot would take that to mean ALL OF THEM.


Then again, why raise the point at all? What relevance does the nationality of the fans have? If Liverpool have Swedish fans who attend the Champions League semi finals, it doesn't make Liverpool any LESS of an English team.

I am quite happy with the 38 games played in England, its the 1 game that would be played abroad that I and most English supporters are unhappy with.


Why unhappy?

It's an "additional" game.

It's not like you are being denied access to something you had before.
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Postby account deleted by request » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:01 am

You mentioned foreign ownership, players and managment.

Why? What's that got to do with anything?

It does not change the fact that those three teams are English


It helps to explain why Platini made the sarcastic comments he did - thats why

Because the fact Barca have a Dutch manager and their best player is Argentinian doesn't change the fact they are considered a Spanish/Catalan team 

And what has a Spanish catalan team got to do with the English premier league?

But explain to me what relevance this has in this discussion.


The fact that you have never been to a premiership game helps to explain why you fail to grasp that playing an extra game takes away the whole concept of a fair competition and devalues the whole league setup. It also may explain your eagerness to ruin a great competition due a desire to actually see a game.

Then again, why raise the point at all? What relevance does the nationality of the fans have? If Liverpool have Swedish fans who attend the Champions League semi finals, it doesn't make Liverpool any LESS of an English team.


I was again making the point that Platini was not far off with his sarcastic remarks, but if you don't know the value of having local support maybe you shouldn't be on a Liverpool website?

Why unhappy?

It's an "additional" game.

It's not like you are being denied access to something you had before.


Add sh!t to a cake and most people would be unhappy ... Why, its not as if they are being denied access to something they had before is it ?
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