Liverpool FC Forum

[Thommo's perm]

Thommo - you say that the Carroll deal was £25m + a potential further £10m in add ons. Do you know what Carroll has to achieve to force the additional payments?

Appearances and trophies I should imagine?

Where have you read that it's 25 plus 10?

I havent read it
I heard it on the Bolton game and on LFC TV

[devaney]

Thommo - you say that the Carroll deal was £25m + a potential further £10m in add ons. Do you know what Carroll has to achieve to force the additional payments?

Appearances and trophies I should imagine?

Where have you read that it's 25 plus 10?

I havent read it
I heard it on the Bolton game and on LFC TV

It seems to have taken a very long time for this possible face saving aspect of Carroll's contract to come to light. I just hope that the Torres deal was a straight £50m with no performance related add ons !!

According to some high level at Newcastle the claim is that it was a £35m cash deal.

[Kerry07]

Providing Carroll with constant direct service means sacrificing pass and move, less play on the floor, and Luis (and the others) will suffer accordingly. Suarez and co. will be looking skyward a lot.

No top team plays direct because it isnt successful. Its this that has puzzled me most about signing Carroll.

the idea of having carroll here is to give us another option in attack which he does,if we ever learn to use him properly.
he can never suit pass and move style cos he has limited control and pace.that doesnt mean he is completely useless ,just not worth what we paid,but we all know that.
because he is lacking in the skill area the more direct route should be used when he plays and at the min it should be from the bench,sort of like a last ditch attempt when we are struggling but dominating possession.the team also need to work to his strengths as by now they should realise what his limits are.
it has nothing to do with lowering our standard of football if we have a plan b,which rarely looks like we do.i also find it hard to believe that kenny would sign him thinking he would suit a fast high tempo game.
we arent clinical enough with the pass and move football anyway because we have no pace whatsoever to provide penetration and catch teams on the back foot.we are good at holding the ball under pressure but once we get into the final third we cack ourselves.
andy is getting more game time than he should be because suarez is banned and we have nothing else up front other than maxi and kuyt ,and while my patience with carroll is running out its completely gone for the other two.

So we paid 35 million pound for a sub to come on late in the game when we desperate, and so just start launching it?

Thats one hell of an expensive "extra option".

In fairness to Carroll.. against Bolton he played a sublime pass that put Bellamy clear. The problem is this is a rarity.

The transfer was Kenny's call, and he has to rectify this somehow or else his replacement will. He is currently getting hammered in the media over the dealings, with the major focus on Carroll. He has to get rid as soon as (preferably loan to Stoke as they will raise his value), or we keep him and play to the limited big fella's strengths by replicating last years Newcastle team and become very direct. Obviously the latter is not an option.

[Thommo's perm]

Thommo - you say that the Carroll deal was £25m + a potential further £10m in add ons. Do you know what Carroll has to achieve to force the additional payments?

Appearances and trophies I should imagine?

Where have you read that it's 25 plus 10?

I havent read it
I heard it on the Bolton game and on LFC TV

It seems to have taken a very long time for this possible face saving aspect of Carroll's contract to come to light. I just hope that the Torres deal was a straight £50m with no performance related add ons !!

I cant dictate when information is released. Besides I dont think it is face-saving because no matter how much he cost he is still not playing as we would wish. I merely pointed it out because people (our own fans included) have delighted in how much money we have wasted

[RedAnt]

Andy Carroll signed a five year contract when he was 22. He's now 23 and one year into that contract. In that year he's been injured and after his injury he's looked unfit too. But let's put this in perspective because it really does seem like there's a witch-hunt out for him.

Carroll never wanted a £35m price tag. He's probably as bewildered about it as we are. He has to live with that price tag hanging around his neck. But...he's 23. Remember that. We knew who he was when we signed him. And we had to sign someone. Torres left us in the lurch on the last day. We wanted a new striker. The only one available was Andy Carroll. Newcastle didn't want to sell him. They knew we were getting a huge fee for Torres, adding to that his age, his nationality, his form, and the fact he'd recently made his England debut, and the fee was £35m. Done. Dusted. Deal with it.

When we signed him, we knew what he was about. He was the new Heskey really, a player who had his good and bad times.

Carroll looks depressed to me. He falls over. His touch lets him down again and again. He never used to do this at Newcastle. Why us? But deliver a ball into his area and he will win it. He does it time and time again. The service to him has been atrocious. When we talk of form and consitency, this also includes constistancy from service. I've played football, and i'm sure many here have. When service is poor, or your heads down in the dumps, or you have a hang-over, or anything...suddenly everything becomes so much more difficult. The simple things aren't so simple anymore. Why do you think so many strikers have goal droughts? Then they score, confidence is up and the goals start flowing. That's football.

Let's not count on how many times his control has let him down, or he's fallen over. Look at the bigger picture. And if you really, really, really want to, then count how many times crosses fail to reach him, or fail to beat the first man. Count how many times Carroll's in the box, fighting six defenders all alone, without a team-mate in sight. Count how many times our wingers get to the byline. Count how many times the referee's blown his whistle against him whenever the big lad uses his strength.

Yes Carroll has his problems, but many of these problems are rooted elsewhere.

The lad might need as kick up the butt, but he also needs support, not hatred, and not the whole weight of the teams failings being added to the weight of his price tag.

He is afterall just a kid and has a heck of a lot to learn. £35m and being placed into the first team right away dosen't make him the finished article.

[Raoul]

Here is an idea. Why don't we see if there is some way we can get Carroll some time off his day job, and get him some regular coaching - perhaps he could come in for a few hours each day. He could use that time to work on his ball control, and perhaps we could find a gym or a pitch or a running track somewhere close by where he could work on his accelleration and mobility. It would mean getting some specialist help from some sort of an exercise expert, but I'm sure we could do it. And no doubt he's im prove out of sight!

Man, imagine if we were able to do this with all of our players, wouldn't that be great!

[worcester_red]

I can't believe you guys defending him like this, he cost what he cost so he needs to man up and start playing even if his true value is only £10 million. in fact even if he was a free transfer I'd be annoyed at how utterly rubbish he is.
He does get the ball delivered into the box quite often but does nothing with it, and if he learnt how to make intelligent runs then he would probably get better service. Either the kid is a fecking moron or our coaches are p@ssys and scared to tell him but in either case we need to get rid of him asap.

[RedAnt]

I can't believe you guys defending him like this, he cost what he cost so he needs to man up and start playing even if his true value is only £10 million. in fact even if he was a free transfer I'd be annoyed at how utterly rubbish he is.
He does get the ball delivered into the box quite often but does nothing with it, and if he learnt how to make intelligent runs then he would probably get better service. Either the kid is a fecking moron or our coaches are p@ssys and scared to tell him but in either case we need to get rid of him asap.

Touché. Ya can't believe people defend our striker? I can't believe you attack him. Supporting Liverpool FC dosen't mean supporting a name, or a city. It means supporting the club, the team, the players, the entire package. People might not want him at Liverpool, but he's there. Get on board, or go support any of the many, many teams out there that don't support their players. He's only had a year of his contract. Where's the loyalty? We're Liverpool FC. Simple as.

I'm tempted to type all the words out to "You'll Never Walk Alone" but we all already know them. It's not our anthem just because it's a nice tune. It's our anthem because it's our philosophy. It's what we as Liverpool supporters believe in. Do we pick and choose the parts of the team, club and history that we support?

Not me. I support the entire deal and that includes anyone who pulls on the Liverpool red.

YNWA!

[Thommo's perm]

Andy Carroll signed a five year contract when he was 22. He's now 23 and one year into that contract. In that year he's been injured and after his injury he's looked unfit too. But let's put this in perspective because it really does seem like there's a witch-hunt out for him.

Carroll never wanted a £35m price tag. He's probably as bewildered about it as we are. He has to live with that price tag hanging around his neck. But...he's 23. Remember that. We knew who he was when we signed him. And we had to sign someone. Torres left us in the lurch on the last day. We wanted a new striker. The only one available was Andy Carroll. Newcastle didn't want to sell him. They knew we were getting a huge fee for Torres, adding to that his age, his nationality, his form, and the fact he'd recently made his England debut, and the fee was £35m. Done. Dusted. Deal with it.

When we signed him, we knew what he was about. He was the new Heskey really, a player who had his good and bad times.

Carroll looks depressed to me. He falls over. His touch lets him down again and again. He never used to do this at Newcastle. Why us? But deliver a ball into his area and he will win it. He does it time and time again. The service to him has been atrocious. When we talk of form and consitency, this also includes constistancy from service. I've played football, and i'm sure many here have. When service is poor, or your heads down in the dumps, or you have a hang-over, or anything...suddenly everything becomes so much more difficult. The simple things aren't so simple anymore. Why do you think so many strikers have goal droughts? Then they score, confidence is up and the goals start flowing. That's football.

Let's not count on how many times his control has let him down, or he's fallen over. Look at the bigger picture. And if you really, really, really want to, then count how many times crosses fail to reach him, or fail to beat the first man. Count how many times Carroll's in the box, fighting six defenders all alone, without a team-mate in sight. Count how many times our wingers get to the byline. Count how many times the referee's blown his whistle against him whenever the big lad uses his strength.

Yes Carroll has his problems, but many of these problems are rooted elsewhere.

The lad might need as kick up the butt, but he also needs support, not hatred, and not the whole weight of the teams failings being added to the weight of his price tag.

He is afterall just a kid and has a heck of a lot to learn. £35m and being placed into the first team right away dosen't make him the finished article.

£35 million = experienced, knowledgable, skilled, passionate, powerful, talented, top of the range, practically finished article of a player.
Thats what people want to see for that kind of money. Thats why he has been under pressure since day one. Thats why he cant cope with the spotlight or the expectations. Thats why were not seeing the best of Carroll. If he had cost 5 or 10 million he would have been terrorising the PL.

[RedAnt]

Andy Carroll signed a five year contract when he was 22. He's now 23 and one year into that contract. In that year he's been injured and after his injury he's looked unfit too. But let's put this in perspective because it really does seem like there's a witch-hunt out for him.

Carroll never wanted a £35m price tag. He's probably as bewildered about it as we are. He has to live with that price tag hanging around his neck. But...he's 23. Remember that. We knew who he was when we signed him. And we had to sign someone. Torres left us in the lurch on the last day. We wanted a new striker. The only one available was Andy Carroll. Newcastle didn't want to sell him. They knew we were getting a huge fee for Torres, adding to that his age, his nationality, his form, and the fact he'd recently made his England debut, and the fee was £35m. Done. Dusted. Deal with it.

When we signed him, we knew what he was about. He was the new Heskey really, a player who had his good and bad times.

Carroll looks depressed to me. He falls over. His touch lets him down again and again. He never used to do this at Newcastle. Why us? But deliver a ball into his area and he will win it. He does it time and time again. The service to him has been atrocious. When we talk of form and consitency, this also includes constistancy from service. I've played football, and i'm sure many here have. When service is poor, or your heads down in the dumps, or you have a hang-over, or anything...suddenly everything becomes so much more difficult. The simple things aren't so simple anymore. Why do you think so many strikers have goal droughts? Then they score, confidence is up and the goals start flowing. That's football.

Let's not count on how many times his control has let him down, or he's fallen over. Look at the bigger picture. And if you really, really, really want to, then count how many times crosses fail to reach him, or fail to beat the first man. Count how many times Carroll's in the box, fighting six defenders all alone, without a team-mate in sight. Count how many times our wingers get to the byline. Count how many times the referee's blown his whistle against him whenever the big lad uses his strength.

Yes Carroll has his problems, but many of these problems are rooted elsewhere.

The lad might need as kick up the butt, but he also needs support, not hatred, and not the whole weight of the teams failings being added to the weight of his price tag.

He is afterall just a kid and has a heck of a lot to learn. £35m and being placed into the first team right away dosen't make him the finished article.

£35 million = experienced, knowledgable, skilled, passionate, powerful, talented, top of the range, practically finished article of a player.
Thats what people want to see for that kind of money. Thats why he has been under pressure since day one. Thats why he cant cope with the spotlight or the expectations. Thats why were not seeing the best of Carroll. If he had cost 5 or 10 million he would have been terrorising the PL.

I'm afraid you're totally right. 110 pages all talking about Carroll. A lot of it is whining and moaning and blaming. And that's my point...half of these posts aren't about Carroll, they're about a £35m price tag.

[PabloMedina28]

Thommo - you say that the Carroll deal was £25m + a potential further £10m in add ons. Do you know what Carroll has to achieve to force the additional payments?

Appearances and trophies I should imagine?

Where have you read that it's 25 plus 10?

I havent read it
I heard it on the Bolton game and on LFC TV

if thats the case id get rid asap before his add ons kick in (if they havent already) maybe wed only make a 10 mill lose on him

[PabloMedina28]

Andy Carroll signed a five year contract when he was 22. He's now 23 and one year into that contract. In that year he's been injured and after his injury he's looked unfit too. But let's put this in perspective because it really does seem like there's a witch-hunt out for him.

Carroll never wanted a £35m price tag. He's probably as bewildered about it as we are. He has to live with that price tag hanging around his neck. But...he's 23. Remember that. We knew who he was when we signed him. And we had to sign someone. Torres left us in the lurch on the last day. We wanted a new striker. The only one available was Andy Carroll. Newcastle didn't want to sell him. They knew we were getting a huge fee for Torres, adding to that his age, his nationality, his form, and the fact he'd recently made his England debut, and the fee was £35m. Done. Dusted. Deal with it.

When we signed him, we knew what he was about. He was the new Heskey really, a player who had his good and bad times.

Carroll looks depressed to me. He falls over. His touch lets him down again and again. He never used to do this at Newcastle. Why us? But deliver a ball into his area and he will win it. He does it time and time again. The service to him has been atrocious. When we talk of form and consitency, this also includes constistancy from service. I've played football, and i'm sure many here have. When service is poor, or your heads down in the dumps, or you have a hang-over, or anything...suddenly everything becomes so much more difficult. The simple things aren't so simple anymore. Why do you think so many strikers have goal droughts? Then they score, confidence is up and the goals start flowing. That's football.

Let's not count on how many times his control has let him down, or he's fallen over. Look at the bigger picture. And if you really, really, really want to, then count how many times crosses fail to reach him, or fail to beat the first man. Count how many times Carroll's in the box, fighting six defenders all alone, without a team-mate in sight. Count how many times our wingers get to the byline. Count how many times the referee's blown his whistle against him whenever the big lad uses his strength.

Yes Carroll has his problems, but many of these problems are rooted elsewhere.

The lad might need as kick up the butt, but he also needs support, not hatred, and not the whole weight of the teams failings being added to the weight of his price tag.

He is afterall just a kid and has a heck of a lot to learn. £35m and being placed into the first team right away dosen't make him the finished article.

Why was Andy Carroll the only one available? I think at 35 million there would of been a hell of a lot of strikers available, even in the little time we had we could of jetted comolli over to spain, germany, holland etc to sign someone and probally saved ourselves 10 mill in the process. I dont think theres a witch hunt going on most supporters just dont think hes good enough. What r we meant to do say nothing when were concernes a player/manager/onwners/tea lady etc arent what Liverpool need to get back to the top just because were scared of hurting anyones feeling? I can understand when ur in the stands but on a forum surely we can vent r concerns?

Yes hes not had the best of service but when he does he hasnt exactly covered himself in glory. Ive watched him train many a time and he doesnt put the effort in. That to me says everything. He just doesnt want it enough.......here anyway.

[RedAnt]

Andy Carroll signed a five year contract when he was 22. He's now 23 and one year into that contract. In that year he's been injured and after his injury he's looked unfit too. But let's put this in perspective because it really does seem like there's a witch-hunt out for him.

Carroll never wanted a £35m price tag. He's probably as bewildered about it as we are. He has to live with that price tag hanging around his neck. But...he's 23. Remember that. We knew who he was when we signed him. And we had to sign someone. Torres left us in the lurch on the last day. We wanted a new striker. The only one available was Andy Carroll. Newcastle didn't want to sell him. They knew we were getting a huge fee for Torres, adding to that his age, his nationality, his form, and the fact he'd recently made his England debut, and the fee was £35m. Done. Dusted. Deal with it.

When we signed him, we knew what he was about. He was the new Heskey really, a player who had his good and bad times.

Carroll looks depressed to me. He falls over. His touch lets him down again and again. He never used to do this at Newcastle. Why us? But deliver a ball into his area and he will win it. He does it time and time again. The service to him has been atrocious. When we talk of form and consitency, this also includes constistancy from service. I've played football, and i'm sure many here have. When service is poor, or your heads down in the dumps, or you have a hang-over, or anything...suddenly everything becomes so much more difficult. The simple things aren't so simple anymore. Why do you think so many strikers have goal droughts? Then they score, confidence is up and the goals start flowing. That's football.

Let's not count on how many times his control has let him down, or he's fallen over. Look at the bigger picture. And if you really, really, really want to, then count how many times crosses fail to reach him, or fail to beat the first man. Count how many times Carroll's in the box, fighting six defenders all alone, without a team-mate in sight. Count how many times our wingers get to the byline. Count how many times the referee's blown his whistle against him whenever the big lad uses his strength.

Yes Carroll has his problems, but many of these problems are rooted elsewhere.

The lad might need as kick up the butt, but he also needs support, not hatred, and not the whole weight of the teams failings being added to the weight of his price tag.

He is afterall just a kid and has a heck of a lot to learn. £35m and being placed into the first team right away dosen't make him the finished article.

Why was Andy Carroll the only one available? I think at 35 million there would of been a hell of a lot of strikers available, even in the little time we had we could of jetted comolli over to spain, germany, holland etc to sign someone and probally saved ourselves 10 mill in the process. I dont think theres a witch hunt going on most supporters just dont think hes good enough. What r we meant to do say nothing when were concernes a player/manager/onwners/tea lady etc arent what Liverpool need to get back to the top just because were scared of hurting anyones feeling? I can understand when ur in the stands but on a forum surely we can vent r concerns?

Yes hes not had the best of service but when he does he hasnt exactly covered himself in glory. Ive watched him train many a time and he doesnt put the effort in. That to me says everything. He just doesnt want it enough.......here anyway.

Nothing wrong with venting concerns, mate, and nothing wrong with healthy criticism, but the whole "Carroll is and we should get rid ASAP" isn't venting or criticising and it's very much against the LFC way. Never in my years have I seen such aggression and ill feeling against one of our own. I'm simply asking for perspective.

Edit: As for who was available, well...yeah we could have jetted off to Holland, Germany or anywhere else, but that would have been a gamble too. The fact that we didn't do that and instead we signed Carroll would suggest at least some homework on Carroll before paying £35m for him? It's not like we just tossed £35m at the first name that came to mind.

[Raoul]

Never in my years have I seen such aggression and ill feeling against one of our own.

Lucas?

[RedAnt]

Never in my years have I seen such aggression and ill feeling against one of our own.

Lucas?

Good point. And now we can't seem to manage without him.