Liverpool FC Forum

by **account deleted by request** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:44 pm

My own view not surprisingly is a little harsher than yours Mick although I probably agree with most of it.

I think just like a lot of people seemed to jump on the Alonso is not playing well bandwaggon when he was playing "below his best"and overstated how bad he was playing, I think a lot of people are now jumping on the he is playing great bandwaggon, when for me he has only played really well in two games(Mancs and Everton). The other games I have seen little or no real improvement on the last couple of seasons. Against Villa, the two games against Standard and against Middlesbro' he was poor...average at best.Leaving only the Stoke game and Citeh match open to dispute?

Like the Kuyt discussion, we seem to get no middle ground. Where with other players it seems acceptable to say they played ok with Kuyt and Alonso it seems there are no OK games, its either they are great or they are abysmal.(With Kuyt the choice is usually abysmal

)

I still believe that Alonso struggles when the opposition striker drops back and closes him down. The two games where I think he played well were also two of the games in which the opposition failed completely to do just that. Berbatov after the first 20 mins didn't seem too keen on doing much of anything nevermind closing people down. While in the Everton game they played only Yakubo up front and they never tried to play up and pressure our midfield. Stoke completely abandoned midfield and against Citeh I thought he struggled until the sending off.

by **Kharhaz** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:03 am

s@int wrote:I think just like a lot of people seemed to jump on the Alonso is not playing well bandwaggon when he was playing "below his best"and overstated how bad he was playing, I think a lot of people are now jumping on the he is playing great bandwaggon, when for me he has only played really well in two games(Mancs and Everton). The other games I have seen little or no real improvement on the last couple of seasons. Against Villa, the two games against Standard and against Middlesbro' he was poor...average at best.Leaving only the Stoke game and Citeh match open to dispute?

Like the Kuyt discussion, we seem to get no middle ground. Where with other players it seems acceptable to say they played ok with Kuyt and Alonso it seems there are no OK games, its either they are great or they are abysmal.

Id say there was some middle ground with the selling of Alonso to buying Barry. Agree with you though saint. Focus shifts with those who play well and those who dont. I also think too many people are influenced by everything they read, and also by the stances they have chosen. I prefer my method the best for critisizing players. Watch the match itself then see who played well and who didnt. Hardly anybody agrees with you at the time but soon afterwards it works itself out.

The way I look at it this season, no player has really stood out. Alonso and Kuyt have done well but nothing special, and in that you can include every other player who has played. We picked up our performance against man utd. With no gerrard or torres. But our resident experts point out how without them we struggle. Torres KEY PLAYER Gerrard KEY PLAYER. Yes, beneficial to the team without a doubt. But be all and end all. No, I dont think so. We will beat chelsea. And Alonso will be instrumental in that match. But all the talk may well be about Torres, and if he is any nearer to match fitness. If that proves to be the case, then we can allow ourselves to speak about the fickleness of some supporters.

by **tubby** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:22 am

A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

by **aCe'** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:07 am

bavlondon wrote:A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

why would you ?!
wouldnt in a million years to be honest !

by **metalhead** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:46 am

s@int wrote:My own view not surprisingly is a little harsher than yours Mick although I probably agree with most of it.

I think just like a lot of people seemed to jump on the Alonso is not playing well bandwaggon when he was playing "below his best"and overstated how bad he was playing, I think a lot of people are now jumping on the he is playing great bandwaggon, when for me he has only played really well in two games(Mancs and Everton). The other games I have seen little or no real improvement on the last couple of seasons. Against Villa, the two games against Standard and against Middlesbro' he was poor...average at best.Leaving only the Stoke game and Citeh match open to dispute?

Like the Kuyt discussion, we seem to get no middle ground. Where with other players it seems acceptable to say they played ok with Kuyt and Alonso it seems there are no OK games, its either they are great or they are abysmal.(With Kuyt the choice is usually abysmal )

I still believe that Alonso struggles when the opposition striker drops back and closes him down. The two games where I think he played well were also two of the games in which the opposition failed completely to do just that. Berbatov after the first 20 mins didn't seem too keen on doing much of anything nevermind closing people down. While in the Everton game they played only Yakubo up front and they never tried to play up and pressure our midfield. Stoke completely abandoned midfield and against Citeh I thought he struggled until the sending off.

at sunderland when he came on he changed the game and was part of Torres' goal. City and Stoke he was solid, didn't put a foot wrong and his passes were fantastic once again. The games you mention its when the whole team played badly, but other than that he is getting back to form.

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:50 am

bavlondon wrote:A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

Not seen much of Toure but isn't he a defensive midfielder/destroyer type? I struggle to see what he'd bring to our midfield that Masch doesn't already have and I struggle to see how he'd replace Xabi's contributions going forward.

by **metalhead** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:53 am

Bad Bob wrote:
bavlondon wrote:A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

Not seen much of Toure but isn't he a defensive midfielder/destroyer type? I struggle to see what he'd bring to our midfield that Masch doesn't already have and I struggle to see how he'd replace Xabi's contributions going forward.

Yaya toure is actually a good player, he is technically better than mascherano and he is a very good passer of the ball in terms of a dangerous or a right pass. tactically and positionally he is also great

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:00 pm

metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bavlondon wrote:A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

Not seen much of Toure but isn't he a defensive midfielder/destroyer type? I struggle to see what he'd bring to our midfield that Masch doesn't already have and I struggle to see how he'd replace Xabi's contributions going forward.

Yaya toure is actually a good player, he is technically better than mascherano and he is a very good passer of the ball in terms of a dangerous or a right pass. tactically and positionally he is also great

Would you have him in the side over Masch or Xabi, though, mate? Once again, the idea of tinkering with what already is a very solid central midfield is not what I think we should be focusing on. If we're going to go down that road and flog Alonso to Barca, let's focus on getting one of their more creative attacking players in return.

by **metalhead** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:07 pm

Bad Bob wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bavlondon wrote:A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

Not seen much of Toure but isn't he a defensive midfielder/destroyer type? I struggle to see what he'd bring to our midfield that Masch doesn't already have and I struggle to see how he'd replace Xabi's contributions going forward.

Yaya toure is actually a good player, he is technically better than mascherano and he is a very good passer of the ball in terms of a dangerous or a right pass. tactically and positionally he is also great

Would you have him in the side over Masch or Xabi, though, mate? Once again, the idea of tinkering with what already is a very solid central midfield is not what I think we should be focusing on. If we're going to go down that road and flog Alonso to Barca, let's focus on getting one of their more creative attacking players in return.

I wouldn't have him unless one of mascha or alonso leaves.

by **Sabre** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:24 pm

metalhead wrote:
Bad Bob wrote:
bavlondon wrote:A few rumors doing the rounds today suggesting Barca are going to offer to swap Alonso for Yaya Toure. Id take that.

Not seen much of Toure but isn't he a defensive midfielder/destroyer type? I struggle to see what he'd bring to our midfield that Masch doesn't already have and I struggle to see how he'd replace Xabi's contributions going forward.

Yaya toure is actually a good player, he is technically better than mascherano and he is a very good passer of the ball in terms of a dangerous or a right pass. tactically and positionally he is also great

Eh? Last season I didn't watch a lot of la liga because I was footballistically depressed when it came of Spanish football.

Meaning I've seen Yaya Toure not more than 4 games or 5. But I can't see how he's more technical than Mascherano to be honest.

by **tubby** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:25 pm

Well it would only be if Alonso went. And anyway id rather we exchanged him for someone good because 1) we will not get money outright for what he is worth and 2) with the money we would get Rafa would probably just end up buying some half unknown anyway.

by **GYBS** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 12:27 pm

Yaya Toure

?? looks at the same level of someone like mikel and momo

by **Bam** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:01 pm

I think Mick has hit the nail largely on the head concerning Alonso moving out of the "pocket" more. Last season TBH I thought by and large he was dissapointing and TBH was pretty poor in the bulk of games. I can see a significant improvement in his game, he's more influential during a match now. His movement is more positive as oppossed to the kind of static positioning of last season. Which of course made him easier to press and nulify during a game and therefore becoming ineffective when in possession.

Whether or not Rafa looking to offload him, was the rocket up the @rse he needed to prove Rafa wrong I dont know. It looks as though its only had a positive effect on his game, and of course not being rotated in and out of fixtures willy nilly will only help to. But IMO he looks a little more adventurous in his play this year, and as said already to which Mick has pointed out is because he's moved out of the "pocket".

by **Judge** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:10 pm

alonso is truly great, he got cahill sent off. hurrah

by **Bad Bob** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:02 pm

Bam wrote:I think Mick has hit the nail largely on the head concerning Alonso moving out of the "pocket" more. Last season TBH I thought by and large he was dissapointing and TBH was pretty poor in the bulk of games. I can see a significant improvement in his game, he's more influential during a match now. His movement is more positive as oppossed to the kind of static positioning of last season. Which of course made him easier to press and nulify during a game and therefore becoming ineffective when in possession.

Whether or not Rafa looking to offload him, was the rocket up the @rse he needed to prove Rafa wrong I dont know. It looks as though its only had a positive effect on his game, and of course not being rotated in and out of fixtures willy nilly will only help to. But IMO he looks a little more adventurous in his play this year, and as said already to which Mick has pointed out is because he's moved out of the "pocket".

This may be an interesting addition to the Gerrard debate because, IMO, Alonso has looked to move out of the pocket more when partnered with Gerrard this season in a midfield 4. I can't recall how he did in his earlier partnerships with Masch but against Man City they looked, at times, to be back to playing within 10 feet of each other. Mick identified this as one of the problems with Alonso's game last season and it's especially apparent when we play 4-2-3-1 with Gerrard ahead of both Masch and Alonso. Perhaps this is a clear indication that 4-4-2 gets the most out of our central midfielders by giving them space to move into, even if it means that one of them has to be sat down. For me, Gerrard is nailed on barring injury or a truly disastrous dip in form. That leaves picking one from Masch and Alonso to partner him and I would give who ever's on form a run of games, while the other needs to work hard in training, bide his time and make a strong claim to be first choice when given a chance to play.

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