Liverpool FC Forum

by **Toffeehater** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:28 pm

Fo Dne wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
Fo Dne wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:
metalhead wrote:
Toffeehater wrote:Not back to his best yet xabi but he's getting there , another good problem to have him and masch for the 1 of the 2 central midfield places if gerrard plays in the middle .

against Everton he was fantastic, Alonso of the old

If that was fantastic that you have not seen the old xabi alonso? He was good , never fantastic but was one of his better performances even though he was rather anoymous , the unsung hero in a way

You havin a laugh lad?

Seriously?

Absoloutely clueless.

My how our standards have dropped . 1st season if i'm not wrong , gerrard was injured or sent off and we were down . Xabi bossed that game , great passing , long range as well , not short passing to the man infront of him , he really picked out players thats the xabi alonso .

Xabi Alonso

Clearly you were not at the game lad. His passing was unbelievable yesterday and he didn't play one wrong pass all game. Typical clueless stupidity that slates him because he didn't switch play everytime he got the ball...

I wish Xabi was that "bad" every game, if him and Gerrard were that "bad" every game we'd the league with points to spare.

No point in argueing with you stu , i'd probably get carded and you'd still be holding onto you're arguement . The same stupidity that you slate babel with , oh the irony

by **Number 9** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:38 pm

Toffeehater wrote:
Number 9 wrote:Just because he never scored or never really tried his trademark long shots does not mean he was average or had a bad game!
Alonso and Gerrard were great yesterday,if they did'nt dominate the MF the way they did we would not have won the game!
Everton had an extra man in MF.Watching the game you'd have thought we had the extra man...thats testament to how well they played.They ate Everton and spat them out.

Have to say i'm chuffed to bits with Xabi so far this season.I'd been dissapointed with his form for some time because I knew he was better than he was showing on the pitch mostly and felt he had lost his hunger and was lacking in effort...basically not giving 100%!
I said during the summer I hoped he would re capture his form and that the possibility of him being sold,then the Barry deal falling through would give him a kick up the @rse!
It appears the potential transfer and on/off confusion has done just that.
He's looking like getting back to his best and if he can continue the season the way he started it will be a blessing that we never let him go for GB

If you're referring to me , i never said that he was poor because he did not try his long shots or any of those , infact he did , he missed one horribly , but besides that its a good post .

Not directly mate no,some tools in the match thread as well!lol
But it appears that some dont appreciate how good Xabi and Stevie were yesterday.
Moyes thought he was gonna outplay us because they had an extra man in MF...he could'nt have been more wrong!
Our 4 man MF bossed their 5.
Yes neither Stevie of Xabi done anything eye candy or fancy yesterday but it was a controlled mature and dominant performance by both.
They won the game for us as much as Torres did with his goals.

by **Cool Hand Luke** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:43 pm

Alonso and Gerrard were top class yesterday. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:45 pm

I think its noticable that Alonso's playing better now we have a genuine width and a Left winger again. He also seems to have started playing through balls again this season, which he hardly did at all last season.

Played it through for Keane to cross yesterday for Torres goal, and also for Torres goal at Sunderland.

I agree with Stu that Alonso has never been as bad as some have said over the last couple of years, but I also think some people defend players too much at times. Better to be honest and admit when a favourite player has a bad game, rather than defend them to the death and put peoples backs up who know your talking cr@p.

Certainly on yesterdays form, Masch is going to have to work hard to get his place back (which is as it should be) unless Rafa moves Gerrard out to the right?

I think Alonso and Gerrard also benefitted yesterday from Fellaini, who looked totally out of his depth in midfield while admittedly looking dangerous up front.

If I was to pick our strongest team at the moment it would be :-

Reina
Arbeloa Skrtel Carra Aurelio

Gerrard Alonso Masch Riera

Kuyt
Torres

Which is certainly quite different than I would have expected or picked a few week ago.

by **Number 9** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:55 pm

Agree with that line up especially the MF for balance!
BUT much i as respect and appreciate Kuyt i'd rather have Keane there.Basically whenever(and he will be soon) playing well he's a far better player than Kuyt in every department bar getting back and scraping with people for the ball and generally being a nuisance!
Its a tough call,if Rafa drops Keane now his confidence will be zero and will take some repairing!

I still cant help feeling though if Dirk gets dropped the team as a whole will miss his energy and work rate more than most think!

by **account deleted by request** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:05 pm

I agree mate, I just wonder how long we can keep waiting of Keane hitting form? IF it starts costing us points, I think short term we may have to let Keane try to get his confidence back in training rather than on the pitch.

by **Number 9** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:13 pm

s@int wrote:I agree mate, I just wonder how long we can keep waiting of Keane hitting form? IF it starts costing us points, I think short term we may have to let Keane try to get his confidence back in training rather than on the pitch.

Would be great if that worked but i dont think scoring even 20 in training will do him any good!
He needs a goal on the pitch,anything will do..even a tap in of his nose ffs,just to get his name on the scoresheet!
Look at Torres the other day for example,he almost looked to be struggling then once he scored his first he was like a new man,full of confidence.

Have to say im a bit surprised that its took Keane so long as he's had a few chances he usually would take on a plate,but once his first one comes the pressure is off and he will be fine!
He played better against Everton,im not worried..................not just yet!

by **Ola Mr Benitez** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:18 pm

I thought Keane had a good game yesterday. He did everything well except stick he ball in the net. He just needs one goal to bounce off his shin and the pressure will be released and he will start hitting the ball a whole lot sweeter than he has been doing.

by **JC_81** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:16 pm

I thought Alonso was excellent again yesterday. His sharpness is good and his passes are finding their targets again. I also think that Alonso has definitely been as bad as some have made out over the last seasons. The difference in his game is night and day compared to last season. I also don't think it's anything to do with having more width in our game, who he plays with or anything tactical at all. If you ask me he got a real wake-up call this summer and realised he isn't indispensable to the team, now he's showing us what he's capable of again.

by **bigmick** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:15 pm

It's a bit of a shame when appraising our midfielders that because the trenches of their backers have become so deep, it's seemingly impossible to praise one up without doing one down in equal measure. There have definately some over-vehement defending of players and the manager over the last couple of seasons, and at times if people aren't careful they can lose credibility and make themselves look faintly ridicuous. Over the last week we've had Kuyt defended to the extent that comaprisons were made and taken seriously with Berbatov, Wayne Rooney and Sammy Lee, who apparently just ran around a lot. We've also seen Lando claiming on the match thread that Gerrard in the Everton game was anonymous. It makes it more difficult to take people seriously when they come out with stuff like that. I am incredulous as to how anybody could watch the game and come to the conclusion that Gerrard was anonymous. As I have respect for Lando's opinions on football, this simply must be a case of preconceptions and personal dislikes for a player dominating actual football knowledge.

Equally, anybody who is of the opinion that Alonso didn't have a good game against Everton either didn't see the match or is without any resemblance of a clue, or simply hates the player and can't admit the obvious. None of this "maybe you weren't there" nonsense either, I watched it on the telly 12,000 miles away and it was pretty obvious to me that he had a good game. It was also pretty obvious to me that he is playing much better than he has for a couple of seasons. We can argue about the why's, the wherefore's an the "do you mind if I don't"s all we like but surely there isn't any dispute over that observation? We can talk about whether there is any validity to the "playing in the pocket" theory, whether the opposition centre forward can actually close him down etc etc etc etc but he is playing better and fair play to him. One thing that even his staunchest detractors could never doubt was his professionalism, and to come back like he has after the Summer says as much about him as a man as it does about him as a footballer.

by **Kharhaz** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:26 pm

Every match is seen different in everybodys eyes. This is down to expectation. The standards Gerrard sets amongst supporters is different. Same as every other player. To some Aurelio is a good player to some hes not. I noticed during the stoke match. The match I saw was very different to a lot of people. For me all they lacked was the finishing, but other supporters saw a different match and it was all kuyts fault, or dossenas or whoever. Yes players have "off" games but it all comes down to what is being displayed, and what people are actually seeing.

by **LegBarnes** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:47 pm

Kharhaz wrote:Every match is seen different in everybodys eyes. This is down to expectation. The standards Gerrard sets amongst supporters is different. Same as every other player. To some Aurelio is a good player to some hes not. I noticed during the stoke match. The match I saw was very different to a lot of people. For me all they lacked was the finishing, but other supporters saw a different match and it was all kuyts fault, or dossenas or whoever. Yes players have "off" games but it all comes down to what is being displayed, and what people are actually seeing.

Thats true that I blame Rafa alot not bcos I think he bad manager just that I feel its up to the manager to drive the team and to keep there form ticking over.

Now if thats to either play them week in week out or to drop them and give them boot up the ar.se thats up to him to judge.

I feel poor form is always down to the manager unless of course it just a player with personal problems thats a different matter all together.

What goes on week in week out in training is a massive part of form and if the right things are not being done at the right times you won't see players performing in the games simple as that.

I feel we have lacked in finishing in the team we have great passing and movement (well from time to time) , we really have problems finishing of moves in the final 3rd.

I feel we need to get an extra coach in to help with that as I feel it is not Rafa's strenght , I feel his strenghts are more in a defensive aspect and setting a team up.

We could of course keep blaming players but I really feel that don't help due to fact they do show they can do it now and agian they just can't get any long term form and for me thats purely down to what is done on the training pitch.

by **Sabre** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:56 pm

I'm not sure the kind of praises Alonso would have received in this match would have been the same should Torres hadn't a couple of total inspiration moments. Perhaps a few vehement posters like Nanny or Lando or Stu would praise his thankless work, but nowhere near to the kind of praises he's getting after this victory. The reactions after good or bad performances against archrivals dictate a lot the opinions about a player.

Quite simply I think that if Torres wouldn't have been on fire, some people would be remembering that he missed a range shot with his bad foot, that he sent a ball astray to the left, that he was caught in posession another couple of times. Perhaps these details that DID happen were the ones spotted by Toffeehater, judging a player has a lot to do with focusing on things, and overlooking others.

We draw against Everton and next week another draw? then Alonso would be slow, non-creative, non-assistant and probably worse than Barry.

Alonso is just lucky that the team are clicking at the moment, and that Gerrard is playing well with him, if the team stumbles or people think again Alonso and Gerrard are incompatible, he'll be a slow and dull player again.

Perhaps Alonso's form has improved, especially compared to when he was coming from an injury, but many fan's opinions also change depending on the situation of the team.

by **bigmick** » Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:59 pm

LegBarnes wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Every match is seen different in everybodys eyes. This is down to expectation. The standards Gerrard sets amongst supporters is different. Same as every other player. To some Aurelio is a good player to some hes not. I noticed during the stoke match. The match I saw was very different to a lot of people. For me all they lacked was the finishing, but other supporters saw a different match and it was all kuyts fault, or dossenas or whoever. Yes players have "off" games but it all comes down to what is being displayed, and what people are actually seeing.

Thats true that I blame Rafa alot not bcos I think he bad manager just that I feel its up to the manager to drive the team and to keep there form ticking over.

Now if thats to either play them week in week out or to drop them and give them boot up the ar.se thats up to him to judge.

I feel poor form is always down to the manager unless of course it just a player with personal problems thats a different matter all together.

What goes on week in week out in training is a massive part of form and if the right things are not being done at the right times you won't see players performing in the games simple as that.

I feel we have lacked in finishing in the team we have great passing and movement (well from time to time) , we really have problems finishing of moves in the final 3rd.

I feel we need to get an extra coach in to help with that as I feel it is not Rafa's strenght , I feel his strenghts are more in a defensive aspect and setting a team up.

We could of course keep blaming players but I really feel that don't help due to fact they do show they can do it now and agian they just can't get any long term form and for me thats purely down to what is done on the training pitch.

Barnsey while you were banned did they cart you off to some far flung island where there wasn't any communication with he outside world or something?

All this stuff about Rafa being a "bad manager" and stuff not being worked on in training mate is a bit confusing. When they let you abck into civilisation, have a look at the league tabnle mate and some recent results.

Things are going Ok bud, while you've been lying on a beach eating your bodywieght in mango's, we're joint top of the league.

by **LegBarnes** » Mon Sep 29, 2008 12:09 am

bigmick wrote:
LegBarnes wrote:
Kharhaz wrote:Every match is seen different in everybodys eyes. This is down to expectation. The standards Gerrard sets amongst supporters is different. Same as every other player. To some Aurelio is a good player to some hes not. I noticed during the stoke match. The match I saw was very different to a lot of people. For me all they lacked was the finishing, but other supporters saw a different match and it was all kuyts fault, or dossenas or whoever. Yes players have "off" games but it all comes down to what is being displayed, and what people are actually seeing.

Thats true that I blame Rafa alot not bcos I think he bad manager just that I feel its up to the manager to drive the team and to keep there form ticking over.

Now if thats to either play them week in week out or to drop them and give them boot up the ar.se thats up to him to judge.

I feel poor form is always down to the manager unless of course it just a player with personal problems thats a different matter all together.

What goes on week in week out in training is a massive part of form and if the right things are not being done at the right times you won't see players performing in the games simple as that.

I feel we have lacked in finishing in the team we have great passing and movement (well from time to time) , we really have problems finishing of moves in the final 3rd.

I feel we need to get an extra coach in to help with that as I feel it is not Rafa's strenght , I feel his strenghts are more in a defensive aspect and setting a team up.

We could of course keep blaming players but I really feel that don't help due to fact they do show they can do it now and agian they just can't get any long term form and for me thats purely down to what is done on the training pitch.

Barnsey while you were banned did they cart you off to some far flung island where there wasn't any communication with he outside world or something?

All this stuff about Rafa being a "bad manager" and stuff not being worked on in training mate is a bit confusing. When they let you abck into civilisation, have a look at the league tabnle mate and some recent results.

Things are going Ok bud, while you've been lying on a beach eating your bodywieght in mango's, we're joint top of the league.

Yes I understand that mick things are going well and Rafa is doing good the everton game was best I seen us play for about 10 games or so.

I am not getting all doom and gloom I was pointing out that when we don't perform to much blame goes on the players I feel its unfair.

But any way yes things are going good and Rafa must be doing the right things in training and players are responding to it thats all good in my book.

But to get all sarcastic about my time away is just depraved and pointless unless you trying to wind me up and if that is case I won't bother to respond to any of you posts any more.

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